Ugh....trading AI can still be conned into trading superstars

marioh · 03-07-2002, 11:11 AM

Let's see.

I get :
Pedro Martinez

The computer gets :
Pedro Astacio
Gary Matthews Jr.
A good minor league prospect (AA pitcher)
Jeff D'Amico (he sucks in Rolen's roster set-just looking to dump his salary)

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong and the AI got the better end of the deal ??!?!?
I did add alot of salary with this move and the minor league pitcher did have some good ratings for a 22 year old though.

Am I off base thinking that I got the better of this deal, by ALOT ??

MizzouRah · 03-07-2002, 11:21 AM

I traded:

RF Vladimir Gurrerro

for

RF Matt Lawton
P Bartolo Colon

Most people would think the computer ripped me off!

Todd

Steve Kuffrey · 03-07-2002, 11:31 AM

Repeat after me, NO trading system is perfect, no trading system is perfect.

It is hard to say who got the better end, just as in real life...Pedro goes down after one start, prospect becomes a superstar, etc.....remember LONG term - who knows.

Please understand, I am not saying that the system is perfect by any means...but I am saying that this is probably the area of the game that people argue, discuss, talk, etc most. It is also probably the hardest to "get right". Just repeating this for the XYZ time.....

marioh · 03-07-2002, 11:34 AM

Understood.

Knowing my luck, all those situations you mentioned will probably come true.

Dokken · 03-07-2002, 11:36 AM

Again....please dont tell us that a patch will fix it...then release it and it does nothing to fix it. Happened with OOTP3's pinch hitting AI and know with the Trading.

I completey understand that no system is perfcet...and I love OOTP4....but dont say somethings fixed with a patch when it clearly isnt.

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Dokken ]

Rose14 · 03-07-2002, 11:37 AM

Keep in mind that NO trade would ever take place if each side didn't think they were getting a deal. Sometimes a team wants better players, sometimes they just want a cheaper payroll.

If you've ever listened to sports talk shows on the radio you've undoubtedly heard countless hours devoted to trade debates. Not even in real life can people agree on what is or isn't a good trade. How can we expect a computer algorythm to be any better?

Steve Kuffrey · 03-07-2002, 11:40 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Dokken:
Again....please dont tell us that a patch will fix it...then release it and it does nothing to fix it. Happened with OOTP3's pinch hitting AI and no with the Trading.

I completey understand that no system is perfcet...and I love OOTP4....but dont say somethings fixed with a patch when it clearly isnt.<hr></blockquote>

I don't think ANYONE has ever said that a patch "fixed" the trading system...first of all it wasn't broken, next if some say you can trade too easy then 5 minutes later someone says it is impossible to trade. I am fairly sure that whenever we have referred to the trading system we have used the word tweak or adjust.

Dokken · 03-07-2002, 11:41 AM

My problem isnt so much with Marios trade....its the fact that there are A LOT of superstars being traded for crappy players...I see it all the time in my league.

You can try and hide it and say that "the team is just dumping salries" but the fact is...the Trading AI is kind of twitchy.

Dokken · 03-07-2002, 11:45 AM

[quote]- Tweaked trading AI, blockbuster trades are now less common<hr></blockquote>

Ok...my mistake...he didnt say FIXED...he said Tweaked. But he must not have tweaked very much...because I have seen NO difference in it at all.

Subby · 03-07-2002, 11:46 AM

Proof again that in any solo-career, one must create at least some house-rules in order to make the game challenging.

And this isn't a knock against OOTP at all, rather an argument for the superiority of the multi-player experience.

Trade rape is much more pleasurable when it is committed against a fellow human owner

fluharty · 03-07-2002, 11:56 AM

You mean like the pirates did to the White Sox when the got Wells, Lowe and Fogg for Ritchie?

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: fluharty ]

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: fluharty ]

blmeanie · 03-07-2002, 12:14 PM

I think the AI does a good job of not taking on salary dumps. Maybe this is already in there, don't know, but do the G.M. controlled by AI all have similar personalities? i.e. conservative?

If so, maybe there could be some variety added in.

troy · 03-07-2002, 12:19 PM

lol. I think its funny half the people on this board are fans of the boston redsox. Just goes to show you as far as baseball knowledge goes... New England residents rate far above everyone else. Towers, Beane, Sabaen just to name a few successful GMs in the majors.. I think theres more. There was even Dan Duquette. Totally off the topic, but oh well.

marioh · 03-07-2002, 12:41 PM

I'm not a fan of the Red Sox.

All I know is Pedro totally dominated my OOTP3 league with no other pitcher even coming close. Practically by himself, he knocked me out of quite a few playoffs.

Subby · 03-07-2002, 12:41 PM

[quote]Originally posted by troy:
lol. I think its funny half the people on this board are fans of the boston redsox. Just goes to show you as far as baseball knowledge goes... New England residents rate far above everyone else.<hr></blockquote>

Either that or New England just has a high concentration of computer dorks...

hellfrozeover · 03-07-2002, 05:10 PM

[quote]Originally posted by TrueCardinalFan:
I traded:

RF Vladimir Gurrerro

for

RF Matt Lawton
P Bartolo Colon

Most people would think the computer ripped me off!

Todd<hr></blockquote>

Dude, you got ripped off!!

Actually, I think you did get the better end of the deal, although I guess it all depends on the teams needs.

MizzouRah · 03-07-2002, 06:34 PM

[quote]Dude, you got ripped off!!

Actually, I think you did get the better end of the deal, although I guess it all depends on the teams needs
<hr></blockquote>

Actually, Colon hasn't been pitching too well, I think his era in 9 games is like 4.93, but Lawton has done pretty good.

Gurrerro has been tearing it up in Cleveland, and Cleveland also had a decent prospect to bring up to replace Colon.

Cleveland has always liked hitters better than pitchers!

Todd

03-07-2002, 11:11 AM	#1
marioh All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 1,162	Ugh....trading AI can still be conned into trading superstars Let's see. I get : Pedro Martinez The computer gets : Pedro Astacio Gary Matthews Jr. A good minor league prospect (AA pitcher) Jeff D'Amico (he sucks in Rolen's roster set-just looking to dump his salary) Who knows, maybe I'm wrong and the AI got the better end of the deal ??!?!? I did add alot of salary with this move and the minor league pitcher did have some good ratings for a 22 year old though. Am I off base thinking that I got the better of this deal, by ALOT ?? __________________ RZA - "I'm me and the me that's me is me and is going to continue to be me"

03-07-2002, 11:31 AM	#3
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	Repeat after me, NO trading system is perfect, no trading system is perfect. It is hard to say who got the better end, just as in real life...Pedro goes down after one start, prospect becomes a superstar, etc.....remember LONG term - who knows. Please understand, I am not saying that the system is perfect by any means...but I am saying that this is probably the area of the game that people argue, discuss, talk, etc most. It is also probably the hardest to "get right". Just repeating this for the XYZ time..... __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-07-2002, 11:34 AM	#4
marioh All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 1,162	Understood. Knowing my luck, all those situations you mentioned will probably come true. __________________ RZA - "I'm me and the me that's me is me and is going to continue to be me"

03-07-2002, 11:36 AM	#5
Dokken Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 110	Again....please dont tell us that a patch will fix it...then release it and it does nothing to fix it. Happened with OOTP3's pinch hitting AI and know with the Trading. I completey understand that no system is perfcet...and I love OOTP4....but dont say somethings fixed with a patch when it clearly isnt. [ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Dokken ]</p>

03-07-2002, 11:37 AM	#6
Rose14 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 76	Keep in mind that NO trade would ever take place if each side didn't think they were getting a deal. Sometimes a team wants better players, sometimes they just want a cheaper payroll. If you've ever listened to sports talk shows on the radio you've undoubtedly heard countless hours devoted to trade debates. Not even in real life can people agree on what is or isn't a good trade. How can we expect a computer algorythm to be any better? __________________ John Dowd is a eunuch.

03-07-2002, 11:21 AM	#2
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,252	I traded: RF Vladimir Gurrerro for RF Matt Lawton P Bartolo Colon Most people would think the computer ripped me off! Todd

03-07-2002, 11:40 AM	#7
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	[quote]Originally posted by Dokken: <strong>Again....please dont tell us that a patch will fix it...then release it and it does nothing to fix it. Happened with OOTP3's pinch hitting AI and no with the Trading. I completey understand that no system is perfcet...and I love OOTP4....but dont say somethings fixed with a patch when it clearly isnt.</strong><hr></blockquote> I don't think ANYONE has ever said that a patch "fixed" the trading system...first of all it wasn't broken, next if some say you can trade too easy then 5 minutes later someone says it is impossible to trade. I am fairly sure that whenever we have referred to the trading system we have used the word tweak or adjust. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-07-2002, 11:41 AM	#8
Dokken Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 110	My problem isnt so much with Marios trade....its the fact that there are A LOT of superstars being traded for crappy players...I see it all the time in my league. You can try and hide it and say that "the team is just dumping salries" but the fact is...the Trading AI is kind of twitchy.

03-07-2002, 11:45 AM	#9
Dokken Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 110	[quote]- Tweaked trading AI, blockbuster trades are now less common<hr></blockquote> Ok...my mistake...he didnt say FIXED...he said Tweaked. But he must not have tweaked very much...because I have seen NO difference in it at all.

03-07-2002, 11:46 AM	#10
Subby Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 375	Proof again that in any solo-career, one must create at least some house-rules in order to make the game challenging. And this isn't a knock against OOTP at all, rather an argument for the superiority of the multi-player experience. Trade rape is much more pleasurable when it is committed against a fellow human owner

03-07-2002, 11:56 AM	#11
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	You mean like the pirates did to the White Sox when the got Wells, Lowe and Fogg for Ritchie? [ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: fluharty ] [ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: fluharty ]</p>

03-07-2002, 12:14 PM	#12
blmeanie All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,044	I think the AI does a good job of not taking on salary dumps. Maybe this is already in there, don't know, but do the G.M. controlled by AI all have similar personalities? i.e. conservative? If so, maybe there could be some variety added in. __________________ blmeanie email me at blmeanie Above link works for some email client programs but not all, email me at blmeanie33@earthlink.net

03-07-2002, 12:19 PM	#13
troy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 22	lol. I think its funny half the people on this board are fans of the boston redsox. Just goes to show you as far as baseball knowledge goes... New England residents rate far above everyone else. Towers, Beane, Sabaen just to name a few successful GMs in the majors.. I think theres more. There was even Dan Duquette. Totally off the topic, but oh well. __________________ CBL NH CDBL Florida GMC Beijing EBL Redsox

03-07-2002, 12:41 PM	#14
marioh All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 1,162	I'm not a fan of the Red Sox. All I know is Pedro totally dominated my OOTP3 league with no other pitcher even coming close. Practically by himself, he knocked me out of quite a few playoffs. __________________ RZA - "I'm me and the me that's me is me and is going to continue to be me"

03-07-2002, 12:41 PM	#15
Subby Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 375	[quote]Originally posted by troy: <strong>lol. I think its funny half the people on this board are fans of the boston redsox. Just goes to show you as far as baseball knowledge goes... New England residents rate far above everyone else.</strong><hr></blockquote> Either that or New England just has a high concentration of computer dorks...

03-07-2002, 05:10 PM	#16
hellfrozeover All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,130	[quote]Originally posted by TrueCardinalFan: <strong>I traded: RF Vladimir Gurrerro for RF Matt Lawton P Bartolo Colon Most people would think the computer ripped me off! Todd</strong><hr></blockquote> Dude, you got ripped off!! Actually, I think you did get the better end of the deal, although I guess it all depends on the teams needs. __________________ FBA Chicago Syndicate Former Owner: WBL Minnesota Twins 2004 - 2007 AL Central Division Champs OOL Chicago Whales 2006, 2009 UL East Champs; 2006, 2009 United League Champs IBA Lehigh Valley Diamonds 2006 Governor's Cup Champions VSLB New York Yankees 2001, 2002 AL East Division Champs ILBL Commissioner/Chicago Cubs 2002 NL Central Division Champs; 2002 National League Champs ASBL New York Yankees 2006 AL East Division Champs

03-07-2002, 06:34 PM	#17
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,252	[quote]Dude, you got ripped off!! Actually, I think you did get the better end of the deal, although I guess it all depends on the teams needs <hr></blockquote> Actually, Colon hasn't been pitching too well, I think his era in 9 games is like 4.93, but Lawton has done pretty good. Gurrerro has been tearing it up in Cleveland, and Cleveland also had a decent prospect to bring up to replace Colon. Cleveland has always liked hitters better than pitchers! Todd