Pitcher Movement Ratings

Mr_Met · 01-25-2005, 06:57 PM

I've noticed that pitchers with high Movement ratings in my ficitional solo league seem to allow absurdly low numbers of homeruns. For instance, a pitcher with a rating of around 100 will consistently allow only 5 or fewer homeruns in 200-250 innings pitched. This kind of HR-to-IP rating is pretty much unheard of in modern baseball, to my knowledge. I looked at the records of just about every post-1950 hall of fame pitcher I could think of and there's nobody that is that good at preventing the long ball year after year. Maddux for instance had a string of few years where he averaged about 1 homerun every 27 innings, but he is about the only close example I can find, and he pitched in something of pitcher's park those years. There are very few years (at least in modern baseball) when a pitcher has allowed fewer than 10 homeruns in over 200 innings, and practically none with fewer than 5 homeruns.
So my question is twofold:
1) is there any way to turn down the impact of movement ratings on the game?
2) can you change one of the settings to make all pitchers' movement ratings closer to 50?

bulldog55 · 01-25-2005, 07:13 PM

In your league setup menu you can adjust your player creation modifiers to turn movement ratings down. This will only affect players who are generated after the change, so it's not like a ratings effect fix. There's really no way to do that.

SandMan · 01-25-2005, 07:13 PM

I don't know for sure, but can't this be done at league setup with the player generation modifiers? Or changed in the player modifiers on the setup screen.

I am not sure what % to add to these values, you will probably want to test about 20 seasons in a test league to see what happens when you make the changes.... if you get good results post them here, I bet a lot of other owners will be interested in a "fix" for this issue.....

sporr · 01-25-2005, 09:11 PM

This is a problem for sure. If you check nearly any league, you'll find a few pitchers that will allow such a low HR total. I have seen a few pitchers that allowed only 2-3 HR in over 200 IP. The problem is, will fixing this problem adversely affect the other pitching averages in an unbalancing way?

TheRockCT · 01-25-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sporr

This is a problem for sure. If you check nearly any league, you'll find a few pitchers that will allow such a low HR total. I have seen a few pitchers that allowed only 2-3 HR in over 200 IP. The problem is, will fixing this problem adversely affect the other pitching averages in an unbalancing way?

I would imagine if there wasn't some sort of rating tradeoff (stuff/control) or league total editing that just dropping movement ratings on future generated players would have a hitting-slanted effect on the league.

Mr_Met · 01-26-2005, 12:18 AM

Here's a specific example of what I mean. This guy's name is Alberto Trujillo. His ratings averaged about 67/65/94 over the last 4 years. Over 4 years he allowed just 21 HR in 1011 innings pitched, with a 2.52 ERA and just a .308 opponents' slugging percentage. (yes, that's 1 HR allowed per 50 innings pitched...) He holds the single season record for lowest OSLG with .276.

(surprising, another guy won the Outstanding Pitcher that year going 23-5, 2.59 ERA with 7 HR allowed in 271 IP.)

It occurs to me that part of the problem can be adjusted by bumping league homerun totals up?

Matteo · 01-26-2005, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Met

Here's a specific example of what I mean. This guy's name is Alberto Trujillo. His ratings averaged about 67/65/94 over the last 4 years. Over 4 years he allowed just 21 HR in 1011 innings pitched, with a 2.52 ERA and just a .308 opponents' slugging percentage. (yes, that's 1 HR allowed per 50 innings pitched...) He holds the single season record for lowest OSLG with .276.

(surprising, another guy won the Outstanding Pitcher that year going 23-5, 2.59 ERA with 7 HR allowed in 271 IP.)

It occurs to me that part of the problem can be adjusted by bumping league homerun totals up?

Yes and no! If you allow for more league HRs, all pitchers will see an increase in HRs allowed.

The problem can be solved by allowing for less pitchers with a high movement rating, but that is also a "dirty way"

The only thing that would really helps if Markus would be able to fix the algoritm (or better said, he should tweak it)

HolyCow98 · 01-26-2005, 12:28 AM

Before the last patch I had a guy with a 96 movement go 36+ starts (250+ IP) without giving up a HR. I think he finally gave up one at the 80-90 IP mark the next season and gave up a total of like 5 that year...still for a modern league he went about 500 IP with 5 HR allowed.

It has gotten better with the last patch....but as posted earlier...you still get guys who are 230-250 IP that give up very few HR. I don't have a problem with it happening so much as the frequency it happens. Greg Maddux was pretty stingy in '92,'94,'95,'97 in giving up few HR. His best mark was 4 allowed in 202.0 IP in 1994. Even so...that was hardly happening all over the league.

crazyhorsejohnny · 01-26-2005, 12:31 AM

Funny thing, this has never happened in any of my solo leagues.

phenom · 01-26-2005, 08:09 AM

no home runs allowed in his last 680+ innings, Movement rating of 100 3 straight seasons.

http://catobase.tubf.net/players/s/suarezvictor973.html

ctorg · 01-26-2005, 12:07 PM

I recently had a guy give up no homeruns over a two year period using modern settings. The rest of the league and the league totals were pretty much where they should have been. In fact, a guy set a new league record with 77 homers the same year. I just decided he was a freak of nature. If guys like that started showing up regularly, though, that would be a problem.

phenom · 01-26-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

I recently had a guy give up no homeruns over a two year period using modern settings. The rest of the league and the league totals were pretty much where they should have been. In fact, a guy set a new league record with 77 homers the same year. I just decided he was a freak of nature. If guys like that started showing up regularly, though, that would be a problem.

same here. That pitcher I linked is the first of his kind in 100+ years of simming.

Milverton · 01-26-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Met

I've noticed that pitchers with high Movement ratings in my ficitional solo league seem to allow absurdly low numbers of homeruns. For instance, a pitcher with a rating of around 100 will consistently allow only 5 or fewer homeruns in 200-250 innings pitched. This kind of HR-to-IP rating is pretty much unheard of in modern baseball, to my knowledge. I looked at the records of just about every post-1950 hall of fame pitcher I could think of and there's nobody that is that good at preventing the long ball year after year. Maddux for instance had a string of few years where he averaged about 1 homerun every 27 innings, but he is about the only close example I can find, and he pitched in something of pitcher's park those years. There are very few years (at least in modern baseball) when a pitcher has allowed fewer than 10 homeruns in over 200 innings, and practically none with fewer than 5 homeruns.
So my question is twofold:
1) is there any way to turn down the impact of movement ratings on the game?
2) can you change one of the settings to make all pitchers' movement ratings closer to 50?

Check out these career numbers. This is not reflective of typical pitchers of this era. This player was a cpu generated HOF legend type player, so I like that he was created the way he was in my fictional leage, but the HR numbers are absurd. This player, on a 1-20 system, was a 20/20/20 for most of his career.

TotalEnd98 · 01-26-2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milverton

Check out these career numbers. This is not reflective of typical pitchers of this era. This player was a cpu generated HOF legend type player, so I like that he was created the way he was in my fictional leage, but the HR numbers are absurd. This player, on a 1-20 system, was a 20/20/20 for most of his career.

I'd have stuck around as long as it took to get those 72 Ks, personally.

Milverton · 01-26-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TotalEnd98

I'd have stuck around as long as it took to get those 72 Ks, personally.

Yeah. In the hundreds of seasons I have simmed and the dozens of leagues, that is the best pitcher I have ever seen.

Gastric ReFlux · 01-27-2005, 06:48 PM

I've been watching a guy develop over the last few seasons:

Code:

Year	G	GS	W	L	ERA	IP	HA	R	ER	HR	BB	K	CG	SHO	WHIP	Teams
2010	36	36	21	6	2.01	255.2	207	68	57	6	36	253	2	0	0.95	SL,NL
2011	36	36	23	8	1.59	261.0	191	57	46	2	19	293	6	6	0.80	SL,NL
2012	35	35	22	4	1.53	258.2	170	53	44	2	18	293	4	4	0.73	SL,NL
2013	35	35	25	4	1.07	261.0	175	34	31	0	14	297	6	5	0.72	SL,NL

TotalEnd98 · 01-27-2005, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastric ReFlux

I've been watching a guy develop over the last few seasons:

Code:

Year	G	GS	W	L	ERA	IP	HA	R	ER	HR	BB	K	CG	SHO	WHIP	Teams
2010	36	36	21	6	2.01	255.2	207	68	57	6	36	253	2	0	0.95	SL,NL
2011	36	36	23	8	1.59	261.0	191	57	46	2	19	293	6	6	0.80	SL,NL
2012	35	35	22	4	1.53	258.2	170	53	44	2	18	293	4	4	0.73	SL,NL
2013	35	35	25	4	1.07	261.0	175	34	31	0	14	297	6	5	0.72	SL,NL

How old is he? That's the kind of player that could end up with legendary career numbers. 91-22 over four seasons with a 1.55 ERA, and an absolutely beautiful K/BB ratio.

Gastric ReFlux · 01-27-2005, 11:18 PM

He's 30 years old now. I've just been watching the league in deity mode. Finances are off to see players stick with teams for a long time.

Code:

Year	G	GS	W	L	ERA	IP	HA	R	ER	HR	BB	K	CG	SHO	WHIP	Teams
2005	3	3	3	0	1.99	22.2	22	5	5	0	5	15	0	0	1.19	SL
2006	30	30	10	11	2.95	204.2	229	82	67	6	42	114	4	1	1.32	SL
2007	36	36	11	15	3.63	240.1	263	112	97	15	49	149	2	0	1.30	SL
2008	29	29	11	11	2.58	202.0	175	67	58	7	39	142	2	0	1.06	SL
2009	25	25	14	6	1.56	178.1	145	40	31	4	25	160	2	1	0.95	SL
2010	36	36	21	6	2.01	255.2	207	68	57	6	36	253	2	0	0.95	SL,NL
2011	36	36	23	8	1.59	261.0	191	57	46	2	19	293	6	6	0.80	SL,NL
2012	35	35	22	4	1.53	258.2	170	53	44	2	18	293	4	4	0.73	SL,NL
2013	35	35	25	4	1.07	261.0	175	34	31	0	14	297	6	5	0.72	SL,NL
2014	35	35	22	6	1.37	256.0	175	40	39	1	20	266	2	2	0.76	SL,NL
2015	36	36	18	13	2.33	251.0	188	67	65	2	21	260	3	1	0.83	SL,NL
2016	36	36	22	4	1.70	270.2	174	59	51	3	22	270	3	3	0.72	SL,NL
Total	372	372	202	88	2.00	2662.0	2114	684	591	48	310	2512	36	23	0.91

Drafted in 1st round, 9th overall pick, by St Louis in 2005...
Earned first career win on 9/18/2005...
Won Rookie of the Year in 2006, going 10-11, 2.95 ERA...
Injured on 5/23/2008 with a Strained Back Muscle, out for 6 weeks...
Injured on 4/23/2009 with a Ruptured Bicep Tendon, out for 9 weeks...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 8/1/2009, going 3-1, 0.40...
Won Rifle Arm in 2009, going 14-6, 1.56 ERA...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2010, going 5-0, 0.40...
Was selected to the 2010 Allstar game...
Pitched PERFECT GAME against Brooklyn on 6/21/2011, striking out 13...
Won Player of the Week award on 7/11/2011, winning 2 games with a 0.57 ERA...
Was selected to the 2011 Allstar game...
Struck out 15 batters against Pittsburgh on 8/16/2011...
Won Player of the Week award on 8/22/2011, winning 2 games with a 0.56 ERA...
Struck out 16 batters against Indianapolis on 9/28/2011...
Won Rifle Arm in 2011, going 23-8, 1.59 ERA...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 6/1/2012, going 6-0, 1.01...
Was selected to the 2012 Allstar game...
Won Rifle Arm in 2012, going 22-4, 1.53 ERA...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 5/1/2013, going 4-2, 1.23...
Won Player of the Week award on 5/6/2013, winning 2 games with a 0.00 ERA...
Won Player of the Week award on 6/24/2013, winning 2 games with a 0.00 ERA...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2013, going 6-0, 0.94...
Was selected to the 2013 Allstar game...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 8/1/2013, going 5-0, 0.73...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 10/1/2013, going 4-1, 1.39...
Won Rifle Arm in 2013, going 25-4, 1.07 ERA...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2014, going 3-1, 1.24...
Was selected to the 2014 Allstar game...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 8/1/2014, going 3-1, 0.93...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 10/1/2014, going 4-0, 1.91...
Won Rifle Arm in 2014, going 22-6, 1.37 ERA...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2015, going 5-1, 0.38...
Was selected to the 2015 Allstar game...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 5/1/2016, going 4-1, 1.72...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2016, going 5-0, 0.55...
Was selected to the 2016 Allstar game...
Won Pitcher of the Month award on 9/1/2016, going 5-1, 1.03...
Won Rifle Arm in 2016, going 22-4, 1.70 ERA...

TotalEnd98 · 01-27-2005, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastric ReFlux

Code:

2010	36	36	21	6	2.01	255.2	207	68	57	6	36	253	2	0	0.95	SL,NL

Who won the Rifle Arm that year?

Gastric ReFlux · 01-28-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TotalEnd98

Who won the Rifle Arm that year?

National League: John Oliveras, ATL, (Record: 23-3, 1.95 ERA, 231IP, 249 Ks, 70 BB)

01-25-2005, 06:57 PM	#1
Mr_Met Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 11	Pitcher Movement Ratings I've noticed that pitchers with high Movement ratings in my ficitional solo league seem to allow absurdly low numbers of homeruns. For instance, a pitcher with a rating of around 100 will consistently allow only 5 or fewer homeruns in 200-250 innings pitched. This kind of HR-to-IP rating is pretty much unheard of in modern baseball, to my knowledge. I looked at the records of just about every post-1950 hall of fame pitcher I could think of and there's nobody that is that good at preventing the long ball year after year. Maddux for instance had a string of few years where he averaged about 1 homerun every 27 innings, but he is about the only close example I can find, and he pitched in something of pitcher's park those years. There are very few years (at least in modern baseball) when a pitcher has allowed fewer than 10 homeruns in over 200 innings, and practically none with fewer than 5 homeruns. So my question is twofold: 1) is there any way to turn down the impact of movement ratings on the game? 2) can you change one of the settings to make all pitchers' movement ratings closer to 50?

01-25-2005, 07:13 PM	#2
bulldog55 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California's Canada Warnings: 17 Posts: 2,479	In your league setup menu you can adjust your player creation modifiers to turn movement ratings down. This will only affect players who are generated after the change, so it's not like a ratings effect fix. There's really no way to do that. __________________ Commissioner, Trans-Continental Base Ball Association Owner/GM, Los Angeles Electrics (TCBA), Beaverton Rangers (OTBL), Portland Mavericks (Union League), and Los Angeles Superbas (Century League) Being smart, don't always make you popular.

01-26-2005, 12:28 AM	#8
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	Before the last patch I had a guy with a 96 movement go 36+ starts (250+ IP) without giving up a HR. I think he finally gave up one at the 80-90 IP mark the next season and gave up a total of like 5 that year...still for a modern league he went about 500 IP with 5 HR allowed. It has gotten better with the last patch....but as posted earlier...you still get guys who are 230-250 IP that give up very few HR. I don't have a problem with it happening so much as the frequency it happens. Greg Maddux was pretty stingy in '92,'94,'95,'97 in giving up few HR. His best mark was 4 allowed in 202.0 IP in 1994. Even so...that was hardly happening all over the league. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

01-26-2005, 08:09 AM	#10
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,768	no home runs allowed in his last 680+ innings, Movement rating of 100 3 straight seasons. http://catobase.tubf.net/players/s/suarezvictor973.html __________________ reported

01-26-2005, 12:07 PM	#11
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I recently had a guy give up no homeruns over a two year period using modern settings. The rest of the league and the league totals were pretty much where they should have been. In fact, a guy set a new league record with 77 homers the same year. I just decided he was a freak of nature. If guys like that started showing up regularly, though, that would be a problem. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

01-25-2005, 07:13 PM	#3
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	I don't know for sure, but can't this be done at league setup with the player generation modifiers? Or changed in the player modifiers on the setup screen. I am not sure what % to add to these values, you will probably want to test about 20 seasons in a test league to see what happens when you make the changes.... if you get good results post them here, I bet a lot of other owners will be interested in a "fix" for this issue.....

01-25-2005, 09:11 PM	#4
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	This is a problem for sure. If you check nearly any league, you'll find a few pitchers that will allow such a low HR total. I have seen a few pitchers that allowed only 2-3 HR in over 200 IP. The problem is, will fixing this problem adversely affect the other pitching averages in an unbalancing way?

01-26-2005, 12:18 AM	#6
Mr_Met Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 11	Here's a specific example of what I mean. This guy's name is Alberto Trujillo. His ratings averaged about 67/65/94 over the last 4 years. Over 4 years he allowed just 21 HR in 1011 innings pitched, with a 2.52 ERA and just a .308 opponents' slugging percentage. (yes, that's 1 HR allowed per 50 innings pitched...) He holds the single season record for lowest OSLG with .276. (surprising, another guy won the Outstanding Pitcher that year going 23-5, 2.59 ERA with 7 HR allowed in 271 IP.) It occurs to me that part of the problem can be adjusted by bumping league homerun totals up?

01-26-2005, 12:31 AM	#9
crazyhorsejohnny All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 818	Funny thing, this has never happened in any of my solo leagues.

01-27-2005, 11:18 PM	#18
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	He's 30 years old now. I've just been watching the league in deity mode. Finances are off to see players stick with teams for a long time. Code: Year G GS W L ERA IP HA R ER HR BB K CG SHO WHIP Teams 2005 3 3 3 0 1.99 22.2 22 5 5 0 5 15 0 0 1.19 SL 2006 30 30 10 11 2.95 204.2 229 82 67 6 42 114 4 1 1.32 SL 2007 36 36 11 15 3.63 240.1 263 112 97 15 49 149 2 0 1.30 SL 2008 29 29 11 11 2.58 202.0 175 67 58 7 39 142 2 0 1.06 SL 2009 25 25 14 6 1.56 178.1 145 40 31 4 25 160 2 1 0.95 SL 2010 36 36 21 6 2.01 255.2 207 68 57 6 36 253 2 0 0.95 SL,NL 2011 36 36 23 8 1.59 261.0 191 57 46 2 19 293 6 6 0.80 SL,NL 2012 35 35 22 4 1.53 258.2 170 53 44 2 18 293 4 4 0.73 SL,NL 2013 35 35 25 4 1.07 261.0 175 34 31 0 14 297 6 5 0.72 SL,NL 2014 35 35 22 6 1.37 256.0 175 40 39 1 20 266 2 2 0.76 SL,NL 2015 36 36 18 13 2.33 251.0 188 67 65 2 21 260 3 1 0.83 SL,NL 2016 36 36 22 4 1.70 270.2 174 59 51 3 22 270 3 3 0.72 SL,NL Total 372 372 202 88 2.00 2662.0 2114 684 591 48 310 2512 36 23 0.91 Drafted in 1st round, 9th overall pick, by St Louis in 2005... Earned first career win on 9/18/2005... Won Rookie of the Year in 2006, going 10-11, 2.95 ERA... Injured on 5/23/2008 with a Strained Back Muscle, out for 6 weeks... Injured on 4/23/2009 with a Ruptured Bicep Tendon, out for 9 weeks... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 8/1/2009, going 3-1, 0.40... Won Rifle Arm in 2009, going 14-6, 1.56 ERA... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2010, going 5-0, 0.40... Was selected to the 2010 Allstar game... Pitched PERFECT GAME against Brooklyn on 6/21/2011, striking out 13... Won Player of the Week award on 7/11/2011, winning 2 games with a 0.57 ERA... Was selected to the 2011 Allstar game... Struck out 15 batters against Pittsburgh on 8/16/2011... Won Player of the Week award on 8/22/2011, winning 2 games with a 0.56 ERA... Struck out 16 batters against Indianapolis on 9/28/2011... Won Rifle Arm in 2011, going 23-8, 1.59 ERA... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 6/1/2012, going 6-0, 1.01... Was selected to the 2012 Allstar game... Won Rifle Arm in 2012, going 22-4, 1.53 ERA... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 5/1/2013, going 4-2, 1.23... Won Player of the Week award on 5/6/2013, winning 2 games with a 0.00 ERA... Won Player of the Week award on 6/24/2013, winning 2 games with a 0.00 ERA... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2013, going 6-0, 0.94... Was selected to the 2013 Allstar game... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 8/1/2013, going 5-0, 0.73... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 10/1/2013, going 4-1, 1.39... Won Rifle Arm in 2013, going 25-4, 1.07 ERA... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2014, going 3-1, 1.24... Was selected to the 2014 Allstar game... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 8/1/2014, going 3-1, 0.93... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 10/1/2014, going 4-0, 1.91... Won Rifle Arm in 2014, going 22-6, 1.37 ERA... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2015, going 5-1, 0.38... Was selected to the 2015 Allstar game... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 5/1/2016, going 4-1, 1.72... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 7/1/2016, going 5-0, 0.55... Was selected to the 2016 Allstar game... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 9/1/2016, going 5-1, 1.03... Won Rifle Arm in 2016, going 22-4, 1.70 ERA...