Cash Hoarding And The Patch

Baseball Dave · 09-03-2002, 01:31 PM

Earlier in the summer I started a thread about cash hoarding by the AI teams. Teams were raking in $20 million a year and had cash reserves of well over $100 million.

The latest patch has fixed this. Because teams are signing their own players to contract extensions in an aggressive way that they hadn't before, payrolls are going way up across the board. The cost of free agents (more on them in a minute) has also gone way up. A top starting pitcher will cost more than $12 million a season. I have pitchers in my league making over $17 million. My team's $78-82 million annual payrolls are ranking in the bottom quarter of the league. There are several teams way above $100 million in payroll. One team had payrolls over $125 million for three straight years. That team has lost nearly $50 million dollars during that time and is now cash broke. Such fiscal mismanagment would not have happened before the latest patch.

Cash hoarding is no longer possible with the new patch. The improved AI vis a vie potential free agents and extensions has eliminated it. And because more players are getting signed to extentions, there are fewer great free agents each year. In the past, if I needed say a right fielder I knew several all stars would be available as free agents. Not anymore. It is not a given that any hole can be plugged by signing one of the many free agents anymore.

Now if Marcus could just do something about the dreaded Late Season Injuries.

scprideandms · 09-03-2002, 01:43 PM

Yeah I lost my best SP and MR (te SP was a career ending one at age 29) in the last month of the season ........

endgame · 09-03-2002, 07:11 PM

Haven't played a great deal of seasons, but I've noticed as a result of the aforementioned that the average age of players on the teams also seems to be on the rise. Some even electing to stay on until 36 or 37 before retiring. This might have been the norm prior to the patch, but the kids now are really 18-22 and the seasoned minor league players can even reach near 30.

It sure makes the focus of finding good prospects with team loyalty and seasoning them over the years to get production and longevity from the payroll investments.

It's a good thing.

sianews · 09-05-2002, 07:47 PM

I have noticed teams locking up there own FA's, but I just don't see payrolls league wide going up any. In a 12 team league I have less than a handful fo players making ober $10 mil/seaosn, which is what it was before. Further, after a few season all teams are at the max of $25 mil reserved.

FreddyLynn · 09-15-2002, 05:29 PM

Cash hoarding is not a problem, but saving enough cash is. The aggressiveness of teams in signing players to extensions has the added effect of leaving many teams nearly broke for long stretches playing solo. I don't mind this so much, as it mirrors reality, but there is a hiccup in that because great players demand so much, and front-line pitchers demand recompense, they will often go unsigned. Replaying using a new 1941 league expanded for 20 teams and running it into the gambon 1947 patch- Dimaggio and Williams just went completely unsigned after MVP seasons.

This would be a great place to boost the AI. Some Suggestions:

*Do not have all teams following the same strategy as far as re-signing. Create some diversity. Always have a team or two trying to clear space for the next season or thinking about blowing it up two or three seasons down the road, like current GMs do.

*Another addition to that which the online leagues may like as well, is creating a Impending Free Agents list in the game for humans and computer alike to determine how much they should resign their player depending on what the market looks like.

*More/Better minor league trading AI in spring training. Teams don't do a very good job of trading/handling what I'd call the "replacement prospect" aspect. While they seem to do a fairly decent job of pruning, and I REALLY like the way they pick up on marginal 25-28 pitching & batting talent that they may be able to develop. I'd like to maybe see them take better risk/investments by signing these projects to longer than 2 year contracts, but I do like it. But what could be improved is trading and acquiring minor league depth during the free agency trading period. I've seen teams accept the most ridiculous players (a 3/1 shortstop, who became their starter) when there is probably some team with depth in their farm system with whom a trade may be able to be worked out. Adding a Jack Cust, for example as the Rockies did.

.... but replacing hoarding is this great deficit spending tool where no one can get more than $5M in debt. A more rational AI would alleviate the need for a catch-all, but perhaps you could at least create a debt-servicing option where they take out loans/bonds...

Also, perhaps Free agents could be quicker to adjust to market considerations. During a lean financial period league-wide, players wouldn't ask so much, and so quickly drive teams out of the market.

Computer AI maybe could be better and jumping back in around day 20 and scooping up bargains, or the players could be better about communicating a reasonable price in the beginning, so they don't go all signing period without getting an offer after winning the Cy Young.

I will note that using a salary cap HAS improved the league's financial shape over the last long historical sim where I did not. Teams come out of their holes quicker, and begin saving money (I allow between $30-$40M to be kept), which, of course, is reference to the idiotic long-term deals they sign with 36 year old pitchers. MARKUS! can't we fix that!? but at least a cap alleciates that IMEX........ It doesn't appear that they try to save money either, again, more AI about long-term strategies might help here....

Killebrew · 09-15-2002, 08:21 PM

Not sure if this is a problem for anybody but if you find the AI teams spending more than they can afford (& therefore losing money) just up their TV contract. In my solo leagues I'll usually create a few Yankee/Dodger franchises with unlimited $$$ by jacking up the TV deal and setting it for 25+ years. Likewise I'll set mine lower to increase the challenge. Any teams losing money I tweak until they are back in black (hit the sack).

paperlantern · 09-16-2002, 06:08 AM

Why are late season injuries a problem? Thats baseball....
Yeah it sucks to lose a star entering the playoffs, but that is what a strong bench is for!

And for those that cant bear this realism, there is always the editor...

09-03-2002, 01:31 PM	#1
Baseball Dave Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 89	Cash Hoarding And The Patch Earlier in the summer I started a thread about cash hoarding by the AI teams. Teams were raking in $20 million a year and had cash reserves of well over $100 million. The latest patch has fixed this. Because teams are signing their own players to contract extensions in an aggressive way that they hadn't before, payrolls are going way up across the board. The cost of free agents (more on them in a minute) has also gone way up. A top starting pitcher will cost more than $12 million a season. I have pitchers in my league making over $17 million. My team's $78-82 million annual payrolls are ranking in the bottom quarter of the league. There are several teams way above $100 million in payroll. One team had payrolls over $125 million for three straight years. That team has lost nearly $50 million dollars during that time and is now cash broke. Such fiscal mismanagment would not have happened before the latest patch. Cash hoarding is no longer possible with the new patch. The improved AI vis a vie potential free agents and extensions has eliminated it. And because more players are getting signed to extentions, there are fewer great free agents each year. In the past, if I needed say a right fielder I knew several all stars would be available as free agents. Not anymore. It is not a given that any hole can be plugged by signing one of the many free agents anymore. Now if Marcus could just do something about the dreaded Late Season Injuries. __________________ We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing-Satchel Paige

09-03-2002, 01:43 PM	#2
scprideandms All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: N KY, 25 miles from Cincy Posts: 1,314	Yeah I lost my best SP and MR (te SP was a career ending one at age 29) in the last month of the season ........ __________________ Change your playground + change your playfriends + change your playtoys + change your playtime = Change your life. If you keep on doing what you've always done you'll keep on gitting what you've always gotten.

09-03-2002, 07:11 PM	#3
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Haven't played a great deal of seasons, but I've noticed as a result of the aforementioned that the average age of players on the teams also seems to be on the rise. Some even electing to stay on until 36 or 37 before retiring. This might have been the norm prior to the patch, but the kids now are really 18-22 and the seasoned minor league players can even reach near 30. It sure makes the focus of finding good prospects with team loyalty and seasoning them over the years to get production and longevity from the payroll investments. It's a good thing.

09-05-2002, 07:47 PM	#4
sianews Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 77	I have noticed teams locking up there own FA's, but I just don't see payrolls league wide going up any. In a 12 team league I have less than a handful fo players making ober $10 mil/seaosn, which is what it was before. Further, after a few season all teams are at the max of $25 mil reserved.

09-15-2002, 05:29 PM	#5
FreddyLynn Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3	Cash hoarding is not a problem, but saving enough cash is. The aggressiveness of teams in signing players to extensions has the added effect of leaving many teams nearly broke for long stretches playing solo. I don't mind this so much, as it mirrors reality, but there is a hiccup in that because great players demand so much, and front-line pitchers demand recompense, they will often go unsigned. Replaying using a new 1941 league expanded for 20 teams and running it into the gambon 1947 patch- Dimaggio and Williams just went completely unsigned after MVP seasons. This would be a great place to boost the AI. Some Suggestions: Do not have all teams following the same strategy as far as re-signing. Create some diversity. Always have a team or two trying to clear space for the next season or thinking about blowing it up two or three seasons down the road, like current GMs do. Another addition to that which the online leagues may like as well, is creating a Impending Free Agents list in the game for humans and computer alike to determine how much they should resign their player depending on what the market looks like. *More/Better minor league trading AI in spring training. Teams don't do a very good job of trading/handling what I'd call the "replacement prospect" aspect. While they seem to do a fairly decent job of pruning, and I REALLY like the way they pick up on marginal 25-28 pitching & batting talent that they may be able to develop. I'd like to maybe see them take better risk/investments by signing these projects to longer than 2 year contracts, but I do like it. But what could be improved is trading and acquiring minor league depth during the free agency trading period. I've seen teams accept the most ridiculous players (a 3/1 shortstop, who became their starter) when there is probably some team with depth in their farm system with whom a trade may be able to be worked out. Adding a Jack Cust, for example as the Rockies did. .... but replacing hoarding is this great deficit spending tool where no one can get more than $5M in debt. A more rational AI would alleviate the need for a catch-all, but perhaps you could at least create a debt-servicing option where they take out loans/bonds... Also, perhaps Free agents could be quicker to adjust to market considerations. During a lean financial period league-wide, players wouldn't ask so much, and so quickly drive teams out of the market. Computer AI maybe could be better and jumping back in around day 20 and scooping up bargains, or the players could be better about communicating a reasonable price in the beginning, so they don't go all signing period without getting an offer after winning the Cy Young. I will note that using a salary cap HAS improved the league's financial shape over the last long historical sim where I did not. Teams come out of their holes quicker, and begin saving money (I allow between $30-$40M to be kept), which, of course, is reference to the idiotic long-term deals they sign with 36 year old pitchers. MARKUS! can't we fix that!? but at least a cap alleciates that IMEX........ It doesn't appear that they try to save money either, again, more AI about long-term strategies might help here....

09-15-2002, 08:21 PM	#6
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	Not sure if this is a problem for anybody but if you find the AI teams spending more than they can afford (& therefore losing money) just up their TV contract. In my solo leagues I'll usually create a few Yankee/Dodger franchises with unlimited $$$ by jacking up the TV deal and setting it for 25+ years. Likewise I'll set mine lower to increase the challenge. Any teams losing money I tweak until they are back in black (hit the sack).

09-16-2002, 06:08 AM	#7
paperlantern Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 176	Why are late season injuries a problem? Thats baseball.... Yeah it sucks to lose a star entering the playoffs, but that is what a strong bench is for! And for those that cant bear this realism, there is always the editor...