promoting to Bigs

Filthy Slider · 11-14-2004, 08:33 PM

Has anyone experienced negative effects to a player's future by bringing him up before the scouts say he's ready (even if he seems ready to you)?

I have heard that in other games, that if a player doesn't spend his full time in the minors learning what he needs to that even though he may perform very well upon first coming up that his performance will peak out pretty quickly and then fade and he'll become a player that never quite becomes the star it looked like he'd be when you called him up.
That very thing happened to me with a player I brought up from AAA in ootp5 a couple of seasons ago. He was a 5 blue star prospect when I brought him up (or, perhaps he was 4 1/2, but it was one of those). He had pretty good numbers at AAA...though, in retrospect, he wasn't quite putting up 4 1/2 star numbers when I brought him up [I was trying to save my job with that team by making it to .500 that year and so I took a chance on rushing him up to the Bigs] and, perhaps it was because he hadn't yet built up his numbers at AAA that he hasn't sustained his initial performance in the Bigs.
The first month that I had him up in the Bigs he was looking like an absolute superstar...was hitting .350 or so with an OBP up around .475 and SLG up over .600...was stealing bases with ease and coming up with big game-winning clutch hits too...
then, he started coming back down...
now...a season and a half later...after two trips back to AAA (I started him in AAA after that first partial year in the Bigs, then called him up due to injuries to starters on my Bigs squad, then, when the injuries were over, demoted him again...
Anyway, he's now a 3 1/2 gold star player at the age of 22...
and, his career Bigs batting avg is only .244 obp .342 slg .426
well, I'm worried about that sort of thing happening with another 5 blue star outfielder prospect whose ratings are:
contact 72/100 talent 8/10
gap pwr 63/100 talent 6/10
HR pwr 83/100 talent 10/10
Eye 94/100 talent 10/10
Avoid K 43/100 talent 6/10
er...those are the ratings of the new 5 blue star guy...not the guy who is now 3 1/2 gold stars...back to the new guy:
He's 24
His numbers at AAA last year in 113 games played (which is an entire AAA year in my league):
AVG .345 OBP .471 SLG .547
This year, in AAA after 25 games there:
AVG .385 OBP .566 SLG .780
I pulled him up to the Bigs for a while this year because 1) my best outfielder in the Bigs went down with a broken arm for 4 weeks and at the same time as that 2) the guy I'd brought up in the past (the now 3 1/2 gold star guy) had, by that time torn a hamstring and was out for the entire season...
During his 4 week stint in the Bigs:
AVG .301 OBP .410 SLG .490
er...actually, I guess I left him up for a while after that because I am seeing that I played him in the Bigs for 41 games (143 AB)
Well, he had actually started to slump before I dropped him back down to AAA...the first few weeks he was hitting over .400 with an OBP up around .500...
and, as he slid back to .340 and then to .320 (stayed there for a while) then went 0 for a couple of games or so and ended up falling all the way down to .301
He has played a total of 2 seasons before this one (I got him in a trade...I had to trade a LOT to get him, but he's worth it so far...on that other team (AI operated) they split his first professional season between AAA and their big league squad, then I had him during both last season and this season.

Anyway, my reason for writing all of that about him is that I now find my team at one week before the all-star break (50% of season games played now) and in 3rd place in my division with a right-fielder-by-committee situation up in the Bigs..each of those right fielders in the Bigs seeming to set a new standard of poor offensive play after the next. So, do I endure the growing pains of poor offense in right field so that "Blackjack" (as he was nicknamed by the computer upon generation) can fully mature and complete his learning at AAA? Or, would I not be risking anything (his long-term career success taken into account) by bringing him up?
I'm afraid of this guy declining like the last one did, but this one (even with less time in minor league play) has better numbers and almost all of his ratings have come quite a bit closer to his talent scores.

Thank you for any input on this.

markwookungfu · 11-14-2004, 09:21 PM

No, sometimes you can do it and they will always catch up

Filthy Slider · 11-15-2004, 06:40 AM

they will "always catch up" ? I will have to think on that to try to figure out what that might mean. Do you mean that ......
....
...nah, I got nothin'...
always catch up...hmm...
who catch up to what exactly?
(maybe its too early and I'm not awake fully yet? lol)

Steve Kuffrey · 11-15-2004, 07:14 AM

There is no hard and fast rule, sometimes it will ruin a player and he won't develop as he would have and some guys it won't hurt at all.

Filthy Slider · 11-15-2004, 07:38 AM

Thanks Steve

that is helpful info...

I think I'll resist the temptation to bring him up...my team can't really afford to take any chances with his future.

ctorg · 11-15-2004, 12:51 PM

Don't bring him up if you don't need to. If you do bring him up, let him play every day. One of the keys to avoiding flameouts of prospects is to let them play.

Filthy Slider · 11-15-2004, 07:30 PM

I just noticed that the 5 blue star prospect that I wrote about above (who I've left at AAA for now) has increased his Contact rating from 72/100 to 75/100
just since I started this thread [er..was it just last night that I did?...]

I think I'm going to have to start keeping better track of changes in my players' ratings (I suppose that is one good use for a comprehensive team player ratings report) since those ratings can change even when there hasn't been an actual "Player Development" report entry for a given player.

By the way, am I correct in assuming that in ootp6, (as seemed to be the case in ootp5), that Player Development always affects the talent ratings of a player?
I have to admit that I never really watched that stuff too closely to discern just what was changing and by how much... Anybody have any feedback on that?

markwookungfu · 11-15-2004, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filthy Slider

Thanks Steve

that is helpful info...

I think I'll resist the temptation to bring him up...my team can't really afford to take any chances with his future.

Sorry what I meant is that most prospects will eventually be as good as their supposed to be, even if they are 28.

Filthy Slider · 11-15-2004, 11:42 PM

ohhh..ok...thanks for the clarification and the input

11-14-2004, 08:33 PM	#1
Filthy Slider Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 467	promoting to Bigs Has anyone experienced negative effects to a player's future by bringing him up before the scouts say he's ready (even if he seems ready to you)? I have heard that in other games, that if a player doesn't spend his full time in the minors learning what he needs to that even though he may perform very well upon first coming up that his performance will peak out pretty quickly and then fade and he'll become a player that never quite becomes the star it looked like he'd be when you called him up. That very thing happened to me with a player I brought up from AAA in ootp5 a couple of seasons ago. He was a 5 blue star prospect when I brought him up (or, perhaps he was 4 1/2, but it was one of those). He had pretty good numbers at AAA...though, in retrospect, he wasn't quite putting up 4 1/2 star numbers when I brought him up [I was trying to save my job with that team by making it to .500 that year and so I took a chance on rushing him up to the Bigs] and, perhaps it was because he hadn't yet built up his numbers at AAA that he hasn't sustained his initial performance in the Bigs. The first month that I had him up in the Bigs he was looking like an absolute superstar...was hitting .350 or so with an OBP up around .475 and SLG up over .600...was stealing bases with ease and coming up with big game-winning clutch hits too... then, he started coming back down... now...a season and a half later...after two trips back to AAA (I started him in AAA after that first partial year in the Bigs, then called him up due to injuries to starters on my Bigs squad, then, when the injuries were over, demoted him again... Anyway, he's now a 3 1/2 gold star player at the age of 22... and, his career Bigs batting avg is only .244 obp .342 slg .426 well, I'm worried about that sort of thing happening with another 5 blue star outfielder prospect whose ratings are: contact 72/100 talent 8/10 gap pwr 63/100 talent 6/10 HR pwr 83/100 talent 10/10 Eye 94/100 talent 10/10 Avoid K 43/100 talent 6/10 er...those are the ratings of the new 5 blue star guy...not the guy who is now 3 1/2 gold stars...back to the new guy: He's 24 His numbers at AAA last year in 113 games played (which is an entire AAA year in my league): AVG .345 OBP .471 SLG .547 This year, in AAA after 25 games there: AVG .385 OBP .566 SLG .780 I pulled him up to the Bigs for a while this year because 1) my best outfielder in the Bigs went down with a broken arm for 4 weeks and at the same time as that 2) the guy I'd brought up in the past (the now 3 1/2 gold star guy) had, by that time torn a hamstring and was out for the entire season... During his 4 week stint in the Bigs: AVG .301 OBP .410 SLG .490 er...actually, I guess I left him up for a while after that because I am seeing that I played him in the Bigs for 41 games (143 AB) Well, he had actually started to slump before I dropped him back down to AAA...the first few weeks he was hitting over .400 with an OBP up around .500... and, as he slid back to .340 and then to .320 (stayed there for a while) then went 0 for a couple of games or so and ended up falling all the way down to .301 He has played a total of 2 seasons before this one (I got him in a trade...I had to trade a LOT to get him, but he's worth it so far...on that other team (AI operated) they split his first professional season between AAA and their big league squad, then I had him during both last season and this season. Anyway, my reason for writing all of that about him is that I now find my team at one week before the all-star break (50% of season games played now) and in 3rd place in my division with a right-fielder-by-committee situation up in the Bigs..each of those right fielders in the Bigs seeming to set a new standard of poor offensive play after the next. So, do I endure the growing pains of poor offense in right field so that "Blackjack" (as he was nicknamed by the computer upon generation) can fully mature and complete his learning at AAA? Or, would I not be risking anything (his long-term career success taken into account) by bringing him up? I'm afraid of this guy declining like the last one did, but this one (even with less time in minor league play) has better numbers and almost all of his ratings have come quite a bit closer to his talent scores. Thank you for any input on this. __________________ a.k.a.: Obscene Change-up, Wicked Heater, Nasty Knuckler What is the sound of one light bulb turning itself? Crash Test Yankees! Last edited by Filthy Slider; 11-14-2004 at 08:38 PM.

11-15-2004, 06:40 AM	#3
Filthy Slider Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 467	they will "always catch up" ? I will have to think on that to try to figure out what that might mean. Do you mean that ...... .... ...nah, I got nothin'... always catch up...hmm... who catch up to what exactly? (maybe its too early and I'm not awake fully yet? lol) __________________ a.k.a.: Obscene Change-up, Wicked Heater, Nasty Knuckler What is the sound of one light bulb turning itself? Crash Test Yankees!

11-15-2004, 07:14 AM	#4
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	There is no hard and fast rule, sometimes it will ruin a player and he won't develop as he would have and some guys it won't hurt at all. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

11-15-2004, 07:38 AM	#5
Filthy Slider Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 467	Thanks Steve that is helpful info... I think I'll resist the temptation to bring him up...my team can't really afford to take any chances with his future. __________________ a.k.a.: Obscene Change-up, Wicked Heater, Nasty Knuckler What is the sound of one light bulb turning itself? Crash Test Yankees!

11-15-2004, 12:51 PM	#6
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Don't bring him up if you don't need to. If you do bring him up, let him play every day. One of the keys to avoiding flameouts of prospects is to let them play. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

11-14-2004, 09:21 PM	#2
markwookungfu Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 70	No, sometimes you can do it and they will always catch up

11-15-2004, 07:30 PM	#7
Filthy Slider Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 467	I just noticed that the 5 blue star prospect that I wrote about above (who I've left at AAA for now) has increased his Contact rating from 72/100 to 75/100 just since I started this thread [er..was it just last night that I did?...] I think I'm going to have to start keeping better track of changes in my players' ratings (I suppose that is one good use for a comprehensive team player ratings report) since those ratings can change even when there hasn't been an actual "Player Development" report entry for a given player. By the way, am I correct in assuming that in ootp6, (as seemed to be the case in ootp5), that Player Development always affects the talent ratings of a player? I have to admit that I never really watched that stuff too closely to discern just what was changing and by how much... Anybody have any feedback on that? __________________ a.k.a.: Obscene Change-up, Wicked Heater, Nasty Knuckler What is the sound of one light bulb turning itself? Crash Test Yankees!

11-15-2004, 11:42 PM	#9
Filthy Slider Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 467	ohhh..ok...thanks for the clarification and the input __________________ a.k.a.: Obscene Change-up, Wicked Heater, Nasty Knuckler What is the sound of one light bulb turning itself? Crash Test Yankees!