Cato Award Question

DamnYankees · 07-21-2004, 05:24 PM

How do I get CatoBase to produce a Manager of the Year and Fireman of the Year award? I assumed it would do it automatically, but it never does. Am I missing a button or something I'm supposed to click? When I choose awards, all I see is MVP, CY Young, ROY, and Gold Gloves.

And jcato, why no Silver Slugger awards?

Thanks.

sharpmath · 07-21-2004, 05:36 PM

You have to pick the winners yourself, catobase is not set up to evaluate that information and make the choice for you. All it does is import, calculate, and create the webpages.

I don't mean "all" it does like that, don't get me wrong, this utility is the main reason why I enjoy OOTP so much.

sharpmath · 07-21-2004, 05:39 PM

Also worth noting, those Awards are just text, you could type in anything you wanted in there.

I for instance have:
"Manager of the Year"
&
"World Series MVP"

You could type in anything you wanted, no matter how improbable. Say like:

"Players and Owners in Major League Baseball agree to make concessions in major areas to reduce expense to the fans!"

or

"Bud Selig speaks out against teams holding cities for ransom with threats of leaving town unless they fund a new stadium."

... sorry.

edit[I guess it would ALSO be worth noting, that while I used those examples above in jest, it would not be advisable, as it perhaps would make the pages look a little wonky? Thank you.]edit

Shorty · 07-21-2004, 05:43 PM

what sharpmath said, minus the outlandish 2nd post of his

sharpmath · 07-22-2004, 05:17 AM

*gasp* Outlandish!!

Yes. Very outlandish.

Whitey · 07-22-2004, 10:06 AM

Catobase has a slight learning curve but I have to throw this 2 cents in wherever I can: Catobase is as essiential (at least for me) to OOTP as a player roster. Tremendous utility!

Ktulu · 07-22-2004, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Also worth noting, those Awards are just text, you could type in anything you wanted in there.

I for instance have:
"Manager of the Year"
&
"World Series MVP"

Wow I didnt even realize that(kinda never payed attention to those awards).

I think I am going to start naming a World Series MVP every year

jcato · 07-22-2004, 07:03 PM

Just in case it's not obvious, you click on Edit/Award Winners. Select the Year and league at the top and then the award winners. You can change the award names on the Options screen (Awards tab). You can also change the other winners, if you don't like who OOTP choose.

One more note. The "Fireman Award" will always give you pitching stats. The "MVP Award" will give pitching stats for pitchers and batting stats for hitters. The "Manager Award" will always give manager stats.

Making this more flexible will be difficult until I can think of an easy way to do it.

There is also a request for WS/All-Star MVP awards and links to their WS or All-Star stats. I'm looking into this...

DamnYankees · 07-22-2004, 09:29 PM

Hey jcato, I was wondering, why is it CatoBase can't choose Manager of the Year? It could be a simple equation with a few variables:

1) This year's record.
2) Improvement over last year's record.
3) Improvement over average record for the past 5 years.
4) Difference in record from expected record. (the +/- thing that is the last column of the Power Rankings page)

It should be pretty simple to set up an equation, assiging a certain amount of points to each of the 4 variables.

Also, it could either only calculate for Managers you pit in, or if you didn't have a manager input, it would just say the team.

Am I missing something that makes this more difficult?
5)

sharpmath · 07-22-2004, 10:37 PM

That's basically what I do as it is, although I don't tally points, I just have a look at the teams, see how much they may have improved, like if one team wins 15 more games, and the team that wins a World Series 2 years in a row wins the same amount of games, the well improved team's manager usually gets the job.

I also hire/fire managers in the same way, looking at previous records, current records, maybe inventing a story or two. Makes it fun! Would you like an example... no? Well too bad! In 1917, the Chicago White Sox were the most dominant team in baseball, and infact had claimed that mantle from the Chicago Cubs. Baseball in 1900's was Chicago-centric for sure: from 1906 to 1923, a team from Chi-town was in the World Series 14 times, and won it 11 times.

The White Sox began their amazing dynasty in 1908, the 3rd year Nixey Callahan was in charge, the 3rd year of Ty Cobb's career and the last year that Roy Patterson and Ed Reulbach pitched together on the club.

They took the 1908 World Seires over Ned Hanlon's Superbas. In 1911 they beat their crosstown rival Cubs, who were in the middle of 5 trips in a row to the World Series, of which they won 4. In 1914, it was George Stallings New York Giants who went down, 1916 again the Brooklyn club, now called the Dodgers and managed by John McGraw. Next was Connie Mack's Phillies in 1917, then 1919 and 1920 saw them beat Stalling's Giants again and then the Cincinnati Reds, who once had both Joe Jackson AND Babe Ruth on the club, but traded Ruth away and then Jackson.

So 7 World Series trips, and 7 wins for the White Sox up to 1920, amazingly impressive. Ed Reulbach was a huge part of those teams, winning 9 Pitcher of the Year honors up until 1923, and finishing his career with an amazing 446 wins.

Infact his only rival for awards and accolades was his team mate Ty Cobb. Cobb won 5 Batter of the Year Awards in a row, a record only surpassed by Babe Ruth, who as of 1928 has won 10 in a row. Cobb would eventually end up with 4300 gits and a .352 average to go with it. He would also play his final 2 years in Detroit. And that long, rambling post takes me to my point of the story.

What I used to do was go to baseball-reference and find out the managers who started managing in that year, so I would write down their start and end years. But I found I would tend to stop using the managers that only had a year or two left, so I started just wrtiting down the start date, and only putting in the end date during the year that they were leaving.

This lead to some amazing seasons from managers on their way out. And Nixey Callahan retired in 1917 after two World Series titles in a row. His replacement was Wilbert Robinson, who had a very unsucessful time in 7 previous seasons with the Giants, Phillies and Pirates.

Robinson excelled with the White Sox, winning the 1919 and 1920 World Series, but then Ty Cobb came up for his first managerial position, and miraculously, Wilbert Robinson was fired, and Cobb took over as manager.

With Cobb, the Sox finished 2nd the first two years, then finally made it to the World Series in 1923, but lost their first series to the Pittsburgh Pirates, who were playing in their first World Series since 1907, and would finish dead last the next year. After that, the White Sox finished 6th, dead last, and 5th under Cobb's reign.

Then at the end of 1926, amidst rumors of Cobb being forced out as manager, he announce he was 'stepping-down' as White Sox skipper. And the next day.. Wilbert Robinson, who had gone on to 5 very bad seasons with the Dodgers and Cubs, as the new man in charge.

So the start of 1927 rolls around and Cobb is quickly traded to the Detroit Tigers, despite hitting .323/.386/.422. What does Cobb do with the Tigers? Hits .383/.428/.513 and wins his first Batter of the Year Award since 1920, his 10th overall.

So, what's my point? Well. There is some relevance to the topic, if you look WAY at the top. Otherwise, I was just in a little story telling mood. Which by the way would not be possible for me at all, if it weren't for catobase!

Thanks jcato!!!!

[Sorry to all who read this, hoping for some type of coherent point]

sporr · 07-23-2004, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

Hey jcato, I was wondering, why is it CatoBase can't choose Manager of the Year? It could be a simple equation with a few variables:

My guess is that it is because everyone has their own ideas on what kind of formula should be used for this. Easier to let each individual make these choices.

jcato · 07-24-2004, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sporr

My guess is that it is because everyone has their own ideas on what kind of formula should be used for this. Easier to let each individual make these choices.

Exactly. I don't think it would be worth the effort to add because I'd also have to add the ability to tweak the formula.

DamnYankees · 07-24-2004, 02:42 PM

I don't see why. People also disagree about who should win MVP, CY Young, and an All-Sar slot. Since when does non-unanimity mean you don't proceed? Also, you wouldnt' need to add the abiliy to change the formulea, just to change the winner, like we already have with the other awards.

I don't see any reason not to have an option for CatoBase to choose it for you. The critereon would be like 5 lines of code, and it could be turned off.

07-21-2004, 05:24 PM	#1
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	Cato Award Question How do I get CatoBase to produce a Manager of the Year and Fireman of the Year award? I assumed it would do it automatically, but it never does. Am I missing a button or something I'm supposed to click? When I choose awards, all I see is MVP, CY Young, ROY, and Gold Gloves. And jcato, why no Silver Slugger awards? Thanks.

07-21-2004, 05:36 PM	#2
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	You have to pick the winners yourself, catobase is not set up to evaluate that information and make the choice for you. All it does is import, calculate, and create the webpages. I don't mean "all" it does like that, don't get me wrong, this utility is the main reason why I enjoy OOTP so much. __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.

07-21-2004, 05:39 PM	#3
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	Also worth noting, those Awards are just text, you could type in anything you wanted in there. I for instance have: "Manager of the Year" & "World Series MVP" You could type in anything you wanted, no matter how improbable. Say like: "Players and Owners in Major League Baseball agree to make concessions in major areas to reduce expense to the fans!" or "Bud Selig speaks out against teams holding cities for ransom with threats of leaving town unless they fund a new stadium." ... sorry. edit[I guess it would ALSO be worth noting, that while I used those examples above in jest, it would not be advisable, as it perhaps would make the pages look a little wonky? Thank you.]edit __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.

07-21-2004, 05:43 PM	#4
Shorty All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 992	what sharpmath said, minus the outlandish 2nd post of his __________________ Here we go Redlegs here we go!

07-22-2004, 05:17 AM	#5
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	gasp Outlandish!! Yes. Very outlandish. __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.

07-22-2004, 10:06 AM	#6
Whitey Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 346	Catobase has a slight learning curve but I have to throw this 2 cents in wherever I can: Catobase is as essiential (at least for me) to OOTP as a player roster. Tremendous utility! __________________ "Thanks for your time this time, until next time, so long." -The Late Great Jack Buck

07-22-2004, 07:03 PM	#8
jcato Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 200	Just in case it's not obvious, you click on Edit/Award Winners. Select the Year and league at the top and then the award winners. You can change the award names on the Options screen (Awards tab). You can also change the other winners, if you don't like who OOTP choose. One more note. The "Fireman Award" will always give you pitching stats. The "MVP Award" will give pitching stats for pitchers and batting stats for hitters. The "Manager Award" will always give manager stats. Making this more flexible will be difficult until I can think of an easy way to do it. There is also a request for WS/All-Star MVP awards and links to their WS or All-Star stats. I'm looking into this...

07-22-2004, 09:29 PM	#9
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	Hey jcato, I was wondering, why is it CatoBase can't choose Manager of the Year? It could be a simple equation with a few variables: 1) This year's record. 2) Improvement over last year's record. 3) Improvement over average record for the past 5 years. 4) Difference in record from expected record. (the +/- thing that is the last column of the Power Rankings page) It should be pretty simple to set up an equation, assiging a certain amount of points to each of the 4 variables. Also, it could either only calculate for Managers you pit in, or if you didn't have a manager input, it would just say the team. Am I missing something that makes this more difficult? 5)

07-22-2004, 10:37 PM	#10
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	That's basically what I do as it is, although I don't tally points, I just have a look at the teams, see how much they may have improved, like if one team wins 15 more games, and the team that wins a World Series 2 years in a row wins the same amount of games, the well improved team's manager usually gets the job. I also hire/fire managers in the same way, looking at previous records, current records, maybe inventing a story or two. Makes it fun! Would you like an example... no? Well too bad! In 1917, the Chicago White Sox were the most dominant team in baseball, and infact had claimed that mantle from the Chicago Cubs. Baseball in 1900's was Chicago-centric for sure: from 1906 to 1923, a team from Chi-town was in the World Series 14 times, and won it 11 times. The White Sox began their amazing dynasty in 1908, the 3rd year Nixey Callahan was in charge, the 3rd year of Ty Cobb's career and the last year that Roy Patterson and Ed Reulbach pitched together on the club. They took the 1908 World Seires over Ned Hanlon's Superbas. In 1911 they beat their crosstown rival Cubs, who were in the middle of 5 trips in a row to the World Series, of which they won 4. In 1914, it was George Stallings New York Giants who went down, 1916 again the Brooklyn club, now called the Dodgers and managed by John McGraw. Next was Connie Mack's Phillies in 1917, then 1919 and 1920 saw them beat Stalling's Giants again and then the Cincinnati Reds, who once had both Joe Jackson AND Babe Ruth on the club, but traded Ruth away and then Jackson. So 7 World Series trips, and 7 wins for the White Sox up to 1920, amazingly impressive. Ed Reulbach was a huge part of those teams, winning 9 Pitcher of the Year honors up until 1923, and finishing his career with an amazing 446 wins. Infact his only rival for awards and accolades was his team mate Ty Cobb. Cobb won 5 Batter of the Year Awards in a row, a record only surpassed by Babe Ruth, who as of 1928 has won 10 in a row. Cobb would eventually end up with 4300 gits and a .352 average to go with it. He would also play his final 2 years in Detroit. And that long, rambling post takes me to my point of the story. What I used to do was go to baseball-reference and find out the managers who started managing in that year, so I would write down their start and end years. But I found I would tend to stop using the managers that only had a year or two left, so I started just wrtiting down the start date, and only putting in the end date during the year that they were leaving. This lead to some amazing seasons from managers on their way out. And Nixey Callahan retired in 1917 after two World Series titles in a row. His replacement was Wilbert Robinson, who had a very unsucessful time in 7 previous seasons with the Giants, Phillies and Pirates. Robinson excelled with the White Sox, winning the 1919 and 1920 World Series, but then Ty Cobb came up for his first managerial position, and miraculously, Wilbert Robinson was fired, and Cobb took over as manager. With Cobb, the Sox finished 2nd the first two years, then finally made it to the World Series in 1923, but lost their first series to the Pittsburgh Pirates, who were playing in their first World Series since 1907, and would finish dead last the next year. After that, the White Sox finished 6th, dead last, and 5th under Cobb's reign. Then at the end of 1926, amidst rumors of Cobb being forced out as manager, he announce he was 'stepping-down' as White Sox skipper. And the next day.. Wilbert Robinson, who had gone on to 5 very bad seasons with the Dodgers and Cubs, as the new man in charge. So the start of 1927 rolls around and Cobb is quickly traded to the Detroit Tigers, despite hitting .323/.386/.422. What does Cobb do with the Tigers? Hits .383/.428/.513 and wins his first Batter of the Year Award since 1920, his 10th overall. So, what's my point? Well. There is some relevance to the topic, if you look WAY at the top. Otherwise, I was just in a little story telling mood. Which by the way would not be possible for me at all, if it weren't for catobase! Thanks jcato!!!! [Sorry to all who read this, hoping for some type of coherent point] __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.

07-24-2004, 02:42 PM	#13
DamnYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,644	I don't see why. People also disagree about who should win MVP, CY Young, and an All-Sar slot. Since when does non-unanimity mean you don't proceed? Also, you wouldnt' need to add the abiliy to change the formulea, just to change the winner, like we already have with the other awards. I don't see any reason not to have an option for CatoBase to choose it for you. The critereon would be like 5 lines of code, and it could be turned off.