Players released when injured

ctorg · 06-22-2004, 11:35 AM

I've been noticing that the AI releases players who get season ending injuries, claiming that they refused removal from the 40-man roster. The only reason I can see for this is that they are somehow refusing to be put on the 60-day DL. The problem is that the AI is even doing this with really big named players and all stars with multiyear deals - just releasing them.

And then the real kicker: The AI is releasing the players without having to pay their remaining salaries! I had the AI release a player with several $20 million years left on his contract. There was no impact on the team's cash or player expenses. He just appeared in the free agent pool with no more contract. I guess this is why the big releases haven't hurt AI finances.

This is a huge glitch in the game. If the AI teams don't have to pay down salaries of players they release, that's a really big bug, because it very heavily impacts how the AI handles player movement. And if the AI is releasing big named players all the time, that's not very good either.

Ktulu · 06-22-2004, 12:42 PM

Jeez, why did you have to tell me that

. Another item to add to the list of things I would rather not know.

They should be placing injured players on the 60 day DL, atleast when it comes to 'big name' players. Does the AI use the 60 day DL at all?

Maybe there is some left over code from version 5 that just tells the AI to release all players that are out for a season or longer.

ctorg · 06-22-2004, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ktulu

Jeez, why did you have to tell me that

. Another item to add to the list of things I would rather not know.

They should be placing injured players on the 60 day DL, atleast when it comes to 'big name' players. Does the AI use the 60 day DL at all?

Maybe there is some left over code from version 5 that just tells the AI to release all players that are out for a season or longer.

Did it do that in 5? I never noticed. I only just realized it because the league MVP for like the past 3 seasons happened to sign a huge multiyear deal and got released in the 2nd year after getting a season-ender. No noticeable ratings hits, nothing. Just a release without pay.

gmo · 06-22-2004, 01:08 PM

Have seen this occur as you describe with career-ending injuries in V5 & V6, but I've never seen it with mere season-enders. Maybe I go back and look for it in my league.

ctorg · 06-22-2004, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmo

Have seen this occur as you describe with career-ending injuries in V5 & V6, but I've never seen it with mere season-enders. Maybe I go back and look for it in my league.

The career enders are understandable, and that's happened for as long as I can remember with them. It's the season enders that make it bad.

gmo · 06-22-2004, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

It's the season enders that make it bad.

How many of these have you seen? Was it just guys with huge contracts?

I checked my 12-team league and found over the past 3 seasons 16 cases of season-ending injuries listed in the league injury report. In each case the player was still with the same team at the end of the season when the almanac was created. Of the 16 there were a few I would consider "stars", but I don't believe any had salaries higher than ~$5M per year.

ctorg · 06-23-2004, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmo

How many of these have you seen? Was it just guys with huge contracts?

I checked my 12-team league and found over the past 3 seasons 16 cases of season-ending injuries listed in the league injury report. In each case the player was still with the same team at the end of the season when the almanac was created. Of the 16 there were a few I would consider "stars", but I don't believe any had salaries higher than ~$5M per year.

I haven't counted, but it has probably happened about five times in the 25 year history of my league. Maybe more, but that's what I've noticed. The reason I've noticed is that when you do catobase, you have to put guys released due to career enders back on their last team or it won't display their stats for the year. So at the end of each season, I go checking for anyone in the FA pool who is colored red. Every 4-5 years I find a guy who had a season ender, not a career ender, and was released due to refusing to be removed from the 40-man roster. Only twice have I actually been able to observe the lack of a change in finances after releasing a player as described above, because the other times I really just wasn't looking for it or had no way of telling.

ctorg · 06-23-2004, 10:53 AM

Oh, and it's not always superstars. It's just more obvious when it's a superstar. I believe it has always been guys who are able to refuse assignment, though.

sporr · 06-23-2004, 11:57 AM

Do you have the latest patch installed (6.02b)? Word is that this was fixed then.

jbmagic · 06-23-2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sporr

Do you have the latest patch installed (6.02b)? Word is that this was fixed then.

latest patch is 6.02a

ctorg · 06-23-2004, 01:35 PM

I did have the latest patch installed, but it was so messed up, I went back to a previous patch. If it does fix it, great. If not, this should be something high on the list. I know everyone thinks their pet peeve should be high on the list, but this issue impacts so much of the game, way more than most others.

Is it the fact that players are released without their contracts being paid down or that players are released for refusing assignment that was fixed?

sporr · 06-23-2004, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

Is it the fact that players are released without their contracts being paid down or that players are released for refusing assignment that was fixed?

To my knowledge, the fix was to stop computer teams from releasing injured players when they refused assignment to the minors.

ctorg · 06-23-2004, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sporr

To my knowledge, the fix was to stop computer teams from releasing injured players when they refused assignment to the minors.

Well, that's good to know. Then the question remains: Why are AI teams not responsible for the contracts of players they release?

statfreak · 06-23-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

Well, that's good to know. Then the question remains: Why are AI teams not responsible for the contracts of players they release?

They never have been in any of the previous versions. I believe it was stated that this was to allow AI teams to remain competitive...

ctorg · 06-23-2004, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statfreak

They never have been in any of the previous versions. I believe it was stated that this was to allow AI teams to remain competitive...

That totally sucks. Glaring AI errors shouldn't be covered up by making the AI operate according to a different set of rules. The AI just shouldn't be releasing players with wild abandon or signing them to long term contracts it can abandon at will with no harm done. It doesn't make the AI more competitive, it makes the AI able to cheat. I can be more "competitive" if I edit all the players on my team to make them super players.

I never noticed this in the past, simply because I don't pay much attention to the finances of AI teams. No wonder why the AI releases so many players. It doesn't have to pay for them. The problem of pointless, excessive releases has been covered up by that fact.

ctorg · 06-24-2004, 11:49 AM

Does anyone else think this is as big a deal as I do?

Ktulu · 06-24-2004, 12:53 PM

I do.

This type of thing is common in a lot of areas of ootp. There seems to be an attitude that the AI needs to cheat in order to remain competitive. Ive always maintained that there are enough real world factors that can make the game challenging.

gmo · 06-24-2004, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

Does anyone else think this is as big a deal as I do?

Well, to me this is a classic case of "until it affects me, I don't really care." I did not recall any explanation saying this was done to make the AI more competitive. Again, I'd never even heard of this happening with SEI. But if it is happening, it is a big deal. Exactly how big, I don't know.

JDOldSchool · 07-09-2004, 02:12 PM

This problem of mine is slightly off topic, but I think it's close enough to not warrant an entirely new thread.

In OOTP 6 (latest patch), teams will frequently sign players to multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts in the free agency period only to release them before the season even starts (and not necessarily because they refuse assignment).

Examples:
Mike Piazza - Signed as a free agent by Boston on 2/6/2006 to a 2-year deal worth $2,206,000 per year...
Released by Boston on 3/31/2006...
Signed as a free agent by Los Angeles on 4/7/2006 to a minor league contract...

Ryan Franklin - Released by Seattle on 5/19/2005...
Signed as a free agent by Seattle on 2/10/2006 to a 4-year deal worth $779,000 per year...
Released by Seattle on 3/31/2006...

Denny Neagle - Signed as a free agent by Detroit on 2/14/2006 to a 1-year deal worth $508,500 per year...
Released by Detroit on 3/31/2006...

Mike Hampton - Signed as a free agent by Toronto on 2/6/2006 to a 3-year deal worth $598,900 per year...
Released by Toronto on 3/31/2006...

There are plenty more of these each season. I'm not sure why this happens, but it really shouldn't. I suppose knowing the AI teams don't suffer finacial consequences makes this a little better, since they're not putting themselves into debt by eating contracts pointlessly. On the other hand, why is the AI even signing guys to multi-year Major League contracts if there is no intention of keeping them around?

06-22-2004, 11:35 AM	#1
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Players released when injured I've been noticing that the AI releases players who get season ending injuries, claiming that they refused removal from the 40-man roster. The only reason I can see for this is that they are somehow refusing to be put on the 60-day DL. The problem is that the AI is even doing this with really big named players and all stars with multiyear deals - just releasing them. And then the real kicker: The AI is releasing the players without having to pay their remaining salaries! I had the AI release a player with several $20 million years left on his contract. There was no impact on the team's cash or player expenses. He just appeared in the free agent pool with no more contract. I guess this is why the big releases haven't hurt AI finances. This is a huge glitch in the game. If the AI teams don't have to pay down salaries of players they release, that's a really big bug, because it very heavily impacts how the AI handles player movement. And if the AI is releasing big named players all the time, that's not very good either. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

06-22-2004, 12:42 PM	#2
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,710	Jeez, why did you have to tell me that . Another item to add to the list of things I would rather not know. They should be placing injured players on the 60 day DL, atleast when it comes to 'big name' players. Does the AI use the 60 day DL at all? Maybe there is some left over code from version 5 that just tells the AI to release all players that are out for a season or longer. __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!"

06-23-2004, 10:53 AM	#8
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Oh, and it's not always superstars. It's just more obvious when it's a superstar. I believe it has always been guys who are able to refuse assignment, though. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

06-23-2004, 01:35 PM	#11
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I did have the latest patch installed, but it was so messed up, I went back to a previous patch. If it does fix it, great. If not, this should be something high on the list. I know everyone thinks their pet peeve should be high on the list, but this issue impacts so much of the game, way more than most others. Is it the fact that players are released without their contracts being paid down or that players are released for refusing assignment that was fixed? __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

06-24-2004, 11:49 AM	#16
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Does anyone else think this is as big a deal as I do? __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

06-22-2004, 01:08 PM	#4
gmo Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 3,460	Have seen this occur as you describe with career-ending injuries in V5 & V6, but I've never seen it with mere season-enders. Maybe I go back and look for it in my league.

06-23-2004, 11:57 AM	#9
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	Do you have the latest patch installed (6.02b)? Word is that this was fixed then.

06-24-2004, 12:53 PM	#17
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,710	I do. This type of thing is common in a lot of areas of ootp. There seems to be an attitude that the AI needs to cheat in order to remain competitive. Ive always maintained that there are enough real world factors that can make the game challenging. __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!"

07-09-2004, 02:12 PM	#19
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	This problem of mine is slightly off topic, but I think it's close enough to not warrant an entirely new thread. In OOTP 6 (latest patch), teams will frequently sign players to multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts in the free agency period only to release them before the season even starts (and not necessarily because they refuse assignment). Examples: Mike Piazza - Signed as a free agent by Boston on 2/6/2006 to a 2-year deal worth $2,206,000 per year... Released by Boston on 3/31/2006... Signed as a free agent by Los Angeles on 4/7/2006 to a minor league contract... Ryan Franklin - Released by Seattle on 5/19/2005... Signed as a free agent by Seattle on 2/10/2006 to a 4-year deal worth $779,000 per year... Released by Seattle on 3/31/2006... Denny Neagle - Signed as a free agent by Detroit on 2/14/2006 to a 1-year deal worth $508,500 per year... Released by Detroit on 3/31/2006... Mike Hampton - Signed as a free agent by Toronto on 2/6/2006 to a 3-year deal worth $598,900 per year... Released by Toronto on 3/31/2006... There are plenty more of these each season. I'm not sure why this happens, but it really shouldn't. I suppose knowing the AI teams don't suffer finacial consequences makes this a little better, since they're not putting themselves into debt by eating contracts pointlessly. On the other hand, why is the AI even signing guys to multi-year Major League contracts if there is no intention of keeping them around?