Strategy Talk: Bullpen

skkrrt · 04-13-2004, 04:07 PM

How do you use your bullpen?

For me, I keep around a 5 man bullpen, 2 guys are primarily used, the closer and the mopup guy.

Mopup man: Usually the 2nd best guy out of the bullpen (I keep 2 VERY good RP in my pen), just a little below the closer. I use him during the 6th and 7th when my starter gets knocked out early. He usually pitch's through untill the 8th (sometimes Ill give him a batter in the 8th, but not normally) and gives way too my closer. I use him as the emergency guy (if my starter is getting roughed up in the 4th.....) and my "backup" cloesr (if the regular is tired, gets knocked out of the game ect ect). Good in every rating

Closer: Either pitch's the 8th and 9th (if my starter gets knocked out before the 7th) or just 9th (if my starter lasts 7)...I almost always use him in extra innings right away. Usually makes 55-60 appearances (somtimes more if my team is good) and pitch's about 85-100 innings. Not a whole lot of 1 inning saves. Very good in every category (and usually a good GB%)

Setup man: I only use him in the 8th if my starter lasts 7 with the lead, hes their basically to save the mopup and closers arms (dont want them tired all the time). He's usually a real good pitcher, but usually has very low endurance. I try and focus on getting someone with a good avoiding HR's stat since he only goes 1 inning, with my closer waiting, giving up hits isnt nearly as big of a deal as giving up a HR (since Ill jsut use hte closer if he gets in trouble)

Double play/LH specialist. I try and find a lefty with very good GB% (66% plus) to induce the GB. Normally a guy with good avoid HR and avoid double (since he almost always comes on with a guy on base), doesn't pitch a lot of innings, but gets me out of jams.

Long Relief: This is usually a guy who I want to start but dont have room for him (typically young, since I use talents only I cant see ratings so I need to test people). A duration guy, only pitch's usually when im loosing (normally only when im down by a lot). I also use the 5th starter in this spot (if I can spare him due to schedule off days). If he's their all year (usually not, ill cycle through these guys a lot since im testing people for startings roles), they'd get some 40 appearances or something and pitch 130 innings (see why they dont last all year

..Ill bench them after long uses so they can recover stamina..since there usually rookies its fairly realistic)

Nothing is static, I usually use the mop up and closer to close out big games (I've had those 2 combine for 6 IP, 3 each, when my starter went down in the 4th in a big game towards years end).... I most likely keep too much talent (and money) in the pen, but I like being safe. I use my closer when hes needed (at games end)...and sometimes just skip the setup man (starter goes 7, closer comes in during the 8th) if I dont feel confident in him.

I use my pen like you all wish your teams managers did

I throw the best pitchers when there needed...dont really follow the 1 inning save thing (except to save the guys arm).

Anyways, your turn.

mauboy · 04-13-2004, 04:14 PM

Sounds like I should be paying more attention to what I'm doing in terms of handling the pen. I may compare myself to Bowa/Baker/Baylor/(insert name here).

Yikes.

Bald Eagles · 04-13-2004, 05:03 PM

I have a 6 man pen including the closer. The closer and the setup man have their roles. Two other arms are available should I need someone in the 7th. I usually let them play a complete inning if they don't get into deep of trouble. I save the closer for when he'd earn a save otherwise I don't use him much. The other two guys get used in blowouts (when I have a big lead). If the setup man ends the 8th with a save situation, and in the 9th we blow it open, he will go in the 9th and get the save.

Onchas · 04-13-2004, 05:11 PM

I normally use a 6 man bullpen but I use a four man starting rotation for most of the season.

Two lefties, three righties plus a closer.

The qualities of these guys depends on the quality of my defense and my starters. I try to run a four man rotation but that usually depends on durability of my starters. If I can come up with four guys with good GB percentages (need a good infield) and C durability or better, I'm willing to take guys who are less talented as pitchers because their wins and stats normally come out okay. Besides, they tend to be a bit cheaper and you're only using four of them.

Important in this plan is to have a serviceable guy who's throwing at AAA incase one of your starters get injured.

So, my bullpen is six guys. One guy is long relief (also normally a young'n whom I want to work into my rotation and gets spot starts). The closer is the best stud I can find. For the lefties, I look for the guys with good durability, accepting maybe the next tier down in terms of actual pitching talent.

The righties I try to get at least one guy who's got solid durability. The set-up role is simply the guy with the least durability.

I don't actually worry about match-ups too much. If I can find 3-4 guys who pitch equally well to both bats, why worry about it?

My philosophy begins with finding good defensive guys with speed and low strike outs. That lets you develop a starting pitching corps that's able to put the ball in play rather than worrying about having the best stats guys you can find. That saves you money. Going with four guys instead of five also saves you money. Once you have those four, it's easy to build your bullpen.

That normally means I'm putting about 15-20 million into the rotation and 6-8 into the bullpen with. Since I run with an 80 million salary cap, that gives me ~6 million for coaches and 45 million for position players; averaging about 5 mil. per starting player.

I know this thread was about bullpen management but to me, how you deal with your bullpen is determined by how you pick your starters. And for me, that's determined by how I pick my defense.

Bluenoser · 04-13-2004, 05:38 PM

What about closer by committee? I have never tried it myself but heard a few people mention it and was wondering if they had any success with it.

Basically they don't have anyone in the closers role, just 2 setup guys, 2 MR's and a Mopup guy. The AI then uses whichever setup guy it deems is best for the situation or the most rested I suspect. (Not sure on that though)

Anyone experimented with this?

Also, in response to the topic, I like to carry 11 pitchers, 5 starters, sometimes 6, (extra guy for spot starting or mopup), 1 closer, 1 or 2 setup men, and the rest MR's. I like using a rookie in the spot starting role, someone who's ready to make the jump from AAA to the majors who I want to break in gradually. I'll usually assign him to the 3rd MR role as well so he gets a bit of work that way as well to help further his development.

thomamon · 04-13-2004, 05:52 PM

I've had 6 or 7 men in the pen... For the most part, I'll let the setup men work the 8th inning, but if one of my middle relief is hot I'll use them for an out or two if I have to.

I usually use the mopup man when a starter gets shelled early. My middle men usually work the 6th & 7th.

cdheer · 04-13-2004, 06:14 PM

I used to be a big believer in investing lots of cash in the pen but (as happens in real life) relievers aren't always consistent.

I usually have a 6 man pen, though I'll drop it to 5 if (A) I have a good collection of endurance relievers and (B) my starters tend to go long.

I stopped spending money on a "closer" a long time ago. I tend to the committee approach. I try to keep two or three relievers that can go 1-2+ innings in any situation. I try to have at least one good lefty for situational issues. Finally, I stick an extra starter here: either someone who got bumped from the rotation by a hotshot rookie or a hotshot rookie. This way when one of my starters goes down he can step in (and then I'll bring someone else up).

The pen is critical. If any of my relievers' ERA creeps up beyond 4 I begin scouting for a replacement. Over 162 games it may not be that huge a deal, but come playoff time they all have to be lights out.

--chris

JerseyPride · 04-13-2004, 06:16 PM

My pen usually consists of 5 or 6 guys. Foe the most part my best reliever is the closer, and then the next best two are split between Middle Reliever and Setup. My weakest position is Mopup Reliever, as I really don't find that spot to be too important, and used very rarely.

Hammer · 04-13-2004, 06:28 PM

I currently have a 6 man pen.

2 long relievers one right one left, that i use mostly if my starters get shelled or they might throw the 6-7 depending how hot or cold they are as they usually are 2 of my better bullpen guys.

I have 2 short relief men one right and one left that usually work the 6-7, they aren't as good as my long relievers but are good.

1 setup man a lefty that i primarily use in the 8th.

1 closer hard throwing high k's, low WHIP to use to get the final 3-5 outs of a game.

skkrrt · 04-13-2004, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cdheer
I used to be a big believer in investing lots of cash in the pen but (as happens in real life) relievers aren't always consistent.

I usually have a 6 man pen, though I'll drop it to 5 if (A) I have a good collection of endurance relievers and (B) my starters tend to go long.

I stopped spending money on a "closer" a long time ago. I tend to the committee approach. I try to keep two or three relievers that can go 1-2+ innings in any situation. I try to have at least one good lefty for situational issues. Finally, I stick an extra starter here: either someone who got bumped from the rotation by a hotshot rookie or a hotshot rookie. This way when one of my starters goes down he can step in (and then I'll bring someone else up).

The pen is critical. If any of my relievers' ERA creeps up beyond 4 I begin scouting for a replacement. Over 162 games it may not be that huge a deal, but come playoff time they all have to be lights out.

--chris

Ill sometimes go too a comittee when im cash strapped or my pen is weak (both happen when your in "rebuilding" mode). I can see the argument for it, but come playoffs or key situations late in the year, I dont like hoping I picked the right guy (and for me, its cheaper to have 2 awesome guys I normally grow from my farm, then 3 slightly above average pitchers, then 3 or 4 good ones that I can count on, since its hard too develop that many more pitchers...and signing the in FA is not an option for me, not worth it).

The only real advantage it seems to a a bullpen by committe system is flexibility (being able to plug in 4 guys instead of 2 in my case), but are with that you have 4 guys that may be less effective...and too me 3....4....5 extra blown saves a year if im in a tight spot..or worse yet, blowing a playoff game...is not worth it.

But too each his own taste

mlyons · 04-13-2004, 10:05 PM

I use 6 guys in my bullpen, all of them except for the closer with C or D endurance. My closer's a lights out guy with a B endurance, so I can use him for 6 out saves if I feel like it. The other 5 guys are pretty much interchangeable apart from which side of the mound they throw off of (2 LH, 3 RH). Whichever ones are pitching the best I'll use as setups, but it also depends on who's the most rested. I look for LH vs LH matchups, but I don't do it to death since I don't like to trot out a reliever to pitch to one batter.

NYM Fan 31 · 04-13-2004, 11:37 PM

Ill tell you what my pen is in 2004 using Total minors roster (Mets)

Mopup :
Grant Roberts RHP (4 AR) - use him to go long inning, be it extra innnings, a big lead, or im getting blown out.

Middle Relievers :
Paul Shuey RHP (8 AR) - solid usually use him in the 6th or 7th if my SP tires or he can pitch the 8th or 9th if Im up by more than 3 runs.

Scott Eyre LHP (6 AR) - signed him as a FA and he does nicely in the middle innnings (6-7) against LHB or weak RHB.

Scott Strickland RHP (7 AR) - I sparingly use him, just give him work to get others rest. He performs pretty nicely though.

Setup Men :
Jaime Cerda LHP (8 AR) - pitches the 8th innnig if its a favorable one for a LHP or the 9th sometimes if im up by more than 3.

Scott Williamson RHP (7 AR) - My Setup Men unless there are tough lefties coming up.

Closer :
Octavio Dotel RHP (9 AR) - I use him obviously in save situations, and the first guy in extra innings. Sometimes ill give him the middle innnings if im getting blown out.

I like to keep a long reliever (mopup), 2 RHP and 1 LHP in the MR section, 1 LHP and 1 RHP in the setup men, and a closer. I use 12 pitchers, 7 in the bullpen. My team is this 8 regulars, 5 SP, 7 bullpen, 5 bench. 8+5=13. 7+5=12. 12+13=25. How do you guys fill out your rosters ( I realize its different in the NL and AL with DH, but im always the Mets)

PSUColonel · 04-13-2004, 11:41 PM

Anyone have a clue why in single player mode the AI does not have bullpen warmups? I'm not even sure why this is an option when it''s an obvious part of the game that SHOULD be incorporated without the need for tweaking.

smeyers003 · 04-13-2004, 11:50 PM

I always like to built a solid young 6-man bullpen through the draft in which any of them can close, but one is assigned closer. I like to have at least one lefty, and everyone has to have a high avoid homers rating. I also usually like to have one strikeout pitcher that can get outs with guys on base. So far in the current season(the 20th in my solo league) all six guys in my pen have sub 2.00 ERAs.

EdsHalo · 04-14-2004, 12:06 AM

I usually end up with a strong closer and two MRs (one in setup role) I can trust in the 7th and 8th (one in each inning or to pitch both innings). Hopefully I have a situational lefty who I can put in with confidence and then I usually have two righties for long relief or to pitch to a batter or two in the 6th or 7th.

NYM Fan 31 · 04-14-2004, 12:09 AM

yo smeyers Reyes is so underrated in the game right

beorn · 04-14-2004, 08:30 AM

At least in OOTP5, half of my strategy is how to convince the AI to handle my staff appropriately in on-line legues. The following is what has worked for me.

I tend to go with starters with relatively weak stamina (cheaper salaries, easier to acquire, and easier to develop). Also, I use an extremely quick hook, and even a short pitch count for weaker starters. As a result, the bullpen is central to my success -- or failure.

I go with 6-7 relievers. I aim to have at least two top notch guys in the pen, one as my CL and the other as my #1 MR. If things work ideally:

*My starters tend strongly towards right (or left) handers, and my #1 MR is opposite.

*My #1 MR has very good stamina, and racks up a huge number of innings. (I've had this guy lead my team in wins in some on-line leagues. Trinidad Valdez of my ABA Brahmas got something like 24 wins one year.)

*Most of my other middle relievers and setup men match the MR's handedness, but the CL is opposite.

To support this strategy, I draft a lot of middle relievers. This is easy because, practically always, a middle reliever is the best player available. I then convert a few to starters, using the five stamina points. Of course, I can convert any MR to closer. I rarely draft anyone with "avoiding BB" talent less than good. For many of these players, I annually put the five spring training stamina points into the other three areas, especially control.

It will be interesting to see how this translates into OOTP6. Several of my co-owners have told me that it may not work as well due to the new combined starter/reliever endurance rating, and maybe they are right, although I don't think it will matter so much. I will be more interested in seeing whether the AI continues to favor the #1MR heavily. If I can count on the AI continuing to use that guy repeatedly, as long as he is not tired, I think the basic strategy will continue to work. However, if my stratgey of pulling starters means that tons of innings will go to the dregs of my bullpen, then my on-line teams are in trouble.

Bald Eagles · 04-14-2004, 10:51 AM

I have a 6 man pen including the closer. The closer and the setup man have their roles. Two other arms are available should I need someone in the 7th. I usually let them play a complete inning if they don't get into deep of trouble. I save the closer for when he'd earn a save otherwise I don't use him much. The other two guys get used in blowouts (when I have a big lead). If the setup man ends the 8th with a save situation, and in the 9th we blow it open, he will go in the 9th and get the save.

cdheer · 04-14-2004, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PSUColonel
Anyone have a clue why in single player mode the AI does not have bullpen warmups? I'm not even sure why this is an option when it''s an obvious part of the game that SHOULD be incorporated without the need for tweaking.

I wondered that myself. I always play with the warmup option, but I feel at a bit of a disadvantage.

Additionally, I'd like to see mound visits added (so you can give your guys more time to warm up). I'd also like to not be penalized if my pitcher gets hurt -- IRL the replacement pitcher gets as much time as he needs to warm up.

--chris

John P. Yuda · 04-14-2004, 11:57 AM

I stopped using the warmups years ago (probably in v.3 or so) because I found them utterly unrealistic: at least back then, the game based being warm or not on the number of batters faced, but paid no heed (as far as I could tell) to the number of pitches thrown.

Also, there's no means of stalling by sending your pitching coach out for a mound conference, etc.

04-13-2004, 05:38 PM	#5
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,214	What about closer by committee? I have never tried it myself but heard a few people mention it and was wondering if they had any success with it. Basically they don't have anyone in the closers role, just 2 setup guys, 2 MR's and a Mopup guy. The AI then uses whichever setup guy it deems is best for the situation or the most rested I suspect. (Not sure on that though) Anyone experimented with this? Also, in response to the topic, I like to carry 11 pitchers, 5 starters, sometimes 6, (extra guy for spot starting or mopup), 1 closer, 1 or 2 setup men, and the rest MR's. I like using a rookie in the spot starting role, someone who's ready to make the jump from AAA to the majors who I want to break in gradually. I'll usually assign him to the 3rd MR role as well so he gets a bit of work that way as well to help further his development. Last edited by Bluenoser; 04-13-2004 at 05:48 PM.

04-13-2004, 05:52 PM	#6
thomamon Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 5,274	I've had 6 or 7 men in the pen... For the most part, I'll let the setup men work the 8th inning, but if one of my middle relief is hot I'll use them for an out or two if I have to. I usually use the mopup man when a starter gets shelled early. My middle men usually work the 6th & 7th. __________________ Thomas A. Montalto Please check out my Stupid Little Blog - http://www.stupidlittleblog.com

04-13-2004, 06:16 PM	#8
JerseyPride All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dirtay Jerzey Posts: 951	My pen usually consists of 5 or 6 guys. Foe the most part my best reliever is the closer, and then the next best two are split between Middle Reliever and Setup. My weakest position is Mopup Reliever, as I really don't find that spot to be too important, and used very rarely. __________________ "I guess you could call the Yanks my daddys." -Pedro Martinez

04-13-2004, 10:05 PM	#11
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	I use 6 guys in my bullpen, all of them except for the closer with C or D endurance. My closer's a lights out guy with a B endurance, so I can use him for 6 out saves if I feel like it. The other 5 guys are pretty much interchangeable apart from which side of the mound they throw off of (2 LH, 3 RH). Whichever ones are pitching the best I'll use as setups, but it also depends on who's the most rested. I look for LH vs LH matchups, but I don't do it to death since I don't like to trot out a reliever to pitch to one batter. __________________ Things can always be worse.

04-13-2004, 11:37 PM	#12
NYM Fan 31 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Freeport, NY Posts: 347	Ill tell you what my pen is in 2004 using Total minors roster (Mets) Mopup : Grant Roberts RHP (4 AR) - use him to go long inning, be it extra innnings, a big lead, or im getting blown out. Middle Relievers : Paul Shuey RHP (8 AR) - solid usually use him in the 6th or 7th if my SP tires or he can pitch the 8th or 9th if Im up by more than 3 runs. Scott Eyre LHP (6 AR) - signed him as a FA and he does nicely in the middle innnings (6-7) against LHB or weak RHB. Scott Strickland RHP (7 AR) - I sparingly use him, just give him work to get others rest. He performs pretty nicely though. Setup Men : Jaime Cerda LHP (8 AR) - pitches the 8th innnig if its a favorable one for a LHP or the 9th sometimes if im up by more than 3. Scott Williamson RHP (7 AR) - My Setup Men unless there are tough lefties coming up. Closer : Octavio Dotel RHP (9 AR) - I use him obviously in save situations, and the first guy in extra innings. Sometimes ill give him the middle innnings if im getting blown out. I like to keep a long reliever (mopup), 2 RHP and 1 LHP in the MR section, 1 LHP and 1 RHP in the setup men, and a closer. I use 12 pitchers, 7 in the bullpen. My team is this 8 regulars, 5 SP, 7 bullpen, 5 bench. 8+5=13. 7+5=12. 12+13=25. How do you guys fill out your rosters ( I realize its different in the NL and AL with DH, but im always the Mets) __________________ "Pelfrey has yet to allow a hit with one out in the 5th. The 1-2 pitch.. lined into left field, that's a base hit for Jones." - Gary Cohen

04-13-2004, 04:07 PM	#1
skkrrt Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 410	Strategy Talk: Bullpen How do you use your bullpen? For me, I keep around a 5 man bullpen, 2 guys are primarily used, the closer and the mopup guy. Mopup man: Usually the 2nd best guy out of the bullpen (I keep 2 VERY good RP in my pen), just a little below the closer. I use him during the 6th and 7th when my starter gets knocked out early. He usually pitch's through untill the 8th (sometimes Ill give him a batter in the 8th, but not normally) and gives way too my closer. I use him as the emergency guy (if my starter is getting roughed up in the 4th.....) and my "backup" cloesr (if the regular is tired, gets knocked out of the game ect ect). Good in every rating Closer: Either pitch's the 8th and 9th (if my starter gets knocked out before the 7th) or just 9th (if my starter lasts 7)...I almost always use him in extra innings right away. Usually makes 55-60 appearances (somtimes more if my team is good) and pitch's about 85-100 innings. Not a whole lot of 1 inning saves. Very good in every category (and usually a good GB%) Setup man: I only use him in the 8th if my starter lasts 7 with the lead, hes their basically to save the mopup and closers arms (dont want them tired all the time). He's usually a real good pitcher, but usually has very low endurance. I try and focus on getting someone with a good avoiding HR's stat since he only goes 1 inning, with my closer waiting, giving up hits isnt nearly as big of a deal as giving up a HR (since Ill jsut use hte closer if he gets in trouble) Double play/LH specialist. I try and find a lefty with very good GB% (66% plus) to induce the GB. Normally a guy with good avoid HR and avoid double (since he almost always comes on with a guy on base), doesn't pitch a lot of innings, but gets me out of jams. Long Relief: This is usually a guy who I want to start but dont have room for him (typically young, since I use talents only I cant see ratings so I need to test people). A duration guy, only pitch's usually when im loosing (normally only when im down by a lot). I also use the 5th starter in this spot (if I can spare him due to schedule off days). If he's their all year (usually not, ill cycle through these guys a lot since im testing people for startings roles), they'd get some 40 appearances or something and pitch 130 innings (see why they dont last all year ..Ill bench them after long uses so they can recover stamina..since there usually rookies its fairly realistic) Nothing is static, I usually use the mop up and closer to close out big games (I've had those 2 combine for 6 IP, 3 each, when my starter went down in the 4th in a big game towards years end).... I most likely keep too much talent (and money) in the pen, but I like being safe. I use my closer when hes needed (at games end)...and sometimes just skip the setup man (starter goes 7, closer comes in during the 8th) if I dont feel confident in him. I use my pen like you all wish your teams managers did I throw the best pitchers when there needed...dont really follow the 1 inning save thing (except to save the guys arm). Anyways, your turn.

04-13-2004, 04:14 PM	#2
mauboy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,906	Sounds like I should be paying more attention to what I'm doing in terms of handling the pen. I may compare myself to Bowa/Baker/Baylor/(insert name here). Yikes.

04-13-2004, 05:03 PM	#3
Bald Eagles Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Waveland & Sheffield Posts: 402	I have a 6 man pen including the closer. The closer and the setup man have their roles. Two other arms are available should I need someone in the 7th. I usually let them play a complete inning if they don't get into deep of trouble. I save the closer for when he'd earn a save otherwise I don't use him much. The other two guys get used in blowouts (when I have a big lead). If the setup man ends the 8th with a save situation, and in the 9th we blow it open, he will go in the 9th and get the save.

04-13-2004, 05:11 PM	#4
Onchas Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4	I normally use a 6 man bullpen but I use a four man starting rotation for most of the season. Two lefties, three righties plus a closer. The qualities of these guys depends on the quality of my defense and my starters. I try to run a four man rotation but that usually depends on durability of my starters. If I can come up with four guys with good GB percentages (need a good infield) and C durability or better, I'm willing to take guys who are less talented as pitchers because their wins and stats normally come out okay. Besides, they tend to be a bit cheaper and you're only using four of them. Important in this plan is to have a serviceable guy who's throwing at AAA incase one of your starters get injured. So, my bullpen is six guys. One guy is long relief (also normally a young'n whom I want to work into my rotation and gets spot starts). The closer is the best stud I can find. For the lefties, I look for the guys with good durability, accepting maybe the next tier down in terms of actual pitching talent. The righties I try to get at least one guy who's got solid durability. The set-up role is simply the guy with the least durability. I don't actually worry about match-ups too much. If I can find 3-4 guys who pitch equally well to both bats, why worry about it? My philosophy begins with finding good defensive guys with speed and low strike outs. That lets you develop a starting pitching corps that's able to put the ball in play rather than worrying about having the best stats guys you can find. That saves you money. Going with four guys instead of five also saves you money. Once you have those four, it's easy to build your bullpen. That normally means I'm putting about 15-20 million into the rotation and 6-8 into the bullpen with. Since I run with an 80 million salary cap, that gives me ~6 million for coaches and 45 million for position players; averaging about 5 mil. per starting player. I know this thread was about bullpen management but to me, how you deal with your bullpen is determined by how you pick your starters. And for me, that's determined by how I pick my defense.

04-13-2004, 06:14 PM	#7
cdheer All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 639	I used to be a big believer in investing lots of cash in the pen but (as happens in real life) relievers aren't always consistent. I usually have a 6 man pen, though I'll drop it to 5 if (A) I have a good collection of endurance relievers and (B) my starters tend to go long. I stopped spending money on a "closer" a long time ago. I tend to the committee approach. I try to keep two or three relievers that can go 1-2+ innings in any situation. I try to have at least one good lefty for situational issues. Finally, I stick an extra starter here: either someone who got bumped from the rotation by a hotshot rookie or a hotshot rookie. This way when one of my starters goes down he can step in (and then I'll bring someone else up). The pen is critical. If any of my relievers' ERA creeps up beyond 4 I begin scouting for a replacement. Over 162 games it may not be that huge a deal, but come playoff time they all have to be lights out. --chris

04-13-2004, 06:28 PM	#9
Hammer Major Leagues Join Date: May 2002 Location: Horicon, Wi Posts: 330	I currently have a 6 man pen. 2 long relievers one right one left, that i use mostly if my starters get shelled or they might throw the 6-7 depending how hot or cold they are as they usually are 2 of my better bullpen guys. I have 2 short relief men one right and one left that usually work the 6-7, they aren't as good as my long relievers but are good. 1 setup man a lefty that i primarily use in the 8th. 1 closer hard throwing high k's, low WHIP to use to get the final 3-5 outs of a game.

04-13-2004, 11:41 PM	#13
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,106	Anyone have a clue why in single player mode the AI does not have bullpen warmups? I'm not even sure why this is an option when it''s an obvious part of the game that SHOULD be incorporated without the need for tweaking.

04-13-2004, 11:50 PM	#14
smeyers003 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 416	I always like to built a solid young 6-man bullpen through the draft in which any of them can close, but one is assigned closer. I like to have at least one lefty, and everyone has to have a high avoid homers rating. I also usually like to have one strikeout pitcher that can get outs with guys on base. So far in the current season(the 20th in my solo league) all six guys in my pen have sub 2.00 ERAs.

04-14-2004, 12:06 AM	#15
EdsHalo Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 61	I usually end up with a strong closer and two MRs (one in setup role) I can trust in the 7th and 8th (one in each inning or to pitch both innings). Hopefully I have a situational lefty who I can put in with confidence and then I usually have two righties for long relief or to pitch to a batter or two in the 6th or 7th. __________________ <b><a href="http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59246">MLB Weekly: View From the Press Box</a></b>

04-14-2004, 12:09 AM	#16
NYM Fan 31 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Freeport, NY Posts: 347	yo smeyers Reyes is so underrated in the game right __________________ "Pelfrey has yet to allow a hit with one out in the 5th. The 1-2 pitch.. lined into left field, that's a base hit for Jones." - Gary Cohen

04-14-2004, 08:30 AM	#17
beorn All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: near Rochester, NY Posts: 1,269	At least in OOTP5, half of my strategy is how to convince the AI to handle my staff appropriately in on-line legues. The following is what has worked for me. I tend to go with starters with relatively weak stamina (cheaper salaries, easier to acquire, and easier to develop). Also, I use an extremely quick hook, and even a short pitch count for weaker starters. As a result, the bullpen is central to my success -- or failure. I go with 6-7 relievers. I aim to have at least two top notch guys in the pen, one as my CL and the other as my #1 MR. If things work ideally: My starters tend strongly towards right (or left) handers, and my #1 MR is opposite. My #1 MR has very good stamina, and racks up a huge number of innings. (I've had this guy lead my team in wins in some on-line leagues. Trinidad Valdez of my ABA Brahmas got something like 24 wins one year.) *Most of my other middle relievers and setup men match the MR's handedness, but the CL is opposite. To support this strategy, I draft a lot of middle relievers. This is easy because, practically always, a middle reliever is the best player available. I then convert a few to starters, using the five stamina points. Of course, I can convert any MR to closer. I rarely draft anyone with "avoiding BB" talent less than good. For many of these players, I annually put the five spring training stamina points into the other three areas, especially control. It will be interesting to see how this translates into OOTP6. Several of my co-owners have told me that it may not work as well due to the new combined starter/reliever endurance rating, and maybe they are right, although I don't think it will matter so much. I will be more interested in seeing whether the AI continues to favor the #1MR heavily. If I can count on the AI continuing to use that guy repeatedly, as long as he is not tired, I think the basic strategy will continue to work. However, if my stratgey of pulling starters means that tons of innings will go to the dregs of my bullpen, then my on-line teams are in trouble. __________________ Commish of Dog Days Baseball Commish Pennant Chase Baseball League (PCBL) Commish and Blue Jays GM Extra Innings Baseball

04-14-2004, 10:51 AM	#18
Bald Eagles Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Waveland & Sheffield Posts: 402	I have a 6 man pen including the closer. The closer and the setup man have their roles. Two other arms are available should I need someone in the 7th. I usually let them play a complete inning if they don't get into deep of trouble. I save the closer for when he'd earn a save otherwise I don't use him much. The other two guys get used in blowouts (when I have a big lead). If the setup man ends the 8th with a save situation, and in the 9th we blow it open, he will go in the 9th and get the save.

04-14-2004, 11:57 AM	#20
John P. Yuda Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 177	I stopped using the warmups years ago (probably in v.3 or so) because I found them utterly unrealistic: at least back then, the game based being warm or not on the number of batters faced, but paid no heed (as far as I could tell) to the number of pitches thrown. Also, there's no means of stalling by sending your pitching coach out for a mound conference, etc.