does a league commissioner have an advantage

waltwa · 02-14-2004, 12:36 PM

i gave this question some thought awhile back. it is impossible not to notice that commissioners have a record of great success in most leagues. to some extent it is to be expected that a commissioner will have more success than the average gm because in starting the league most, if not all gms will have first pick of the teams and pick a good one.

let me make one thing clear i am not talking about cheating! i am wondering if the makeup of the game allows league conmmissioners certain advantages. if the game does then i think it will become a real problem. but first without jumping to any conclusions i would like to see if in fact there are advantages that people know might exist.

let me start by stating one advantage that i think ,not know, exists.

in pre-season free agency it appears to me that all free agent offers must go thru the commissioner. thus if a commish is going to make an offer on a free agent he or she would know the best offer and obviuously have an advantage in making offers. this advantage just seems logical to me but i am not sure that the advantage does exist in fact. but if it does it is a great advantage.

are there any others?

Bluenoser · 02-14-2004, 01:20 PM

Two points:

1. Your first point about a Commish picking a good team isn't always the case. I've seen leagues where Commish's take bad teams because they want a challange. There are also many leagues that start with a redraft, so everyone basically has the same chance of picking good players.

2. During FA the Commish does not see all bids, unless he blatantly cheats, as they go through ftp and are imported into the game. The Commish imports the bids, then runs X number of days of FA. He only sees his own bids.

The only advantage I see, and I don't really consider it an advantage since everyone in the league can do the same, is that he becomes more familiar with the players quicker because he processes all trades, cuts, signings, waivers, runs the sims and sees whats happening game by game, etc. Any owner could spend as much time as the Commish studying or learning the players if he/she so chose to.

waltwa · 02-14-2004, 01:33 PM

ok good reply.

point number one to me is not any kind of meaningful advantage. when a guy starts a league he should at least have the right to choose whatever team he wants.

number 2. so if a commissioner wants to cheat he can but he does not necessarily have access to the bids unless he wants to see them. i thought that he would automatically see them. ok i fell better about that because i don't think many people are in the leagues to cheat.

point number 3 does not seem like an advantage but rather a result of working at winning.

so far - so good.

ChampMan · 02-14-2004, 01:41 PM

As a commish I for one try and make my bids before exporting all other FA offers then i process the amount of days, as for the team i took well I have been a Braves fan since 84' so that was a no brainer, I do feel that as a commish I have the advantage of alot of GMs talking to me about deals that the want to make so I can get word of mouth quicker, I also feel the reason most commsihes are succesfull is that anyone that would put this much time into a league by running it as wel as a team has a serious love of the game both baseball and ootp so if you love something so much you know it like the back of your hand.

waltwa · 02-14-2004, 01:49 PM

that is the way i feel. i have so much fun doing this i just want to see if there are any built-in problems with the game

oregon · 02-14-2004, 02:28 PM

I think commishes generally do well because they're the most active owner, and in on-line leagues it seems that the most active owners do well, regardless. There are so many win-win trades to make, FA's to sign, etc.... that the gm who pays close attention gives himself a good advantage.

I also notice that commishes often get very favorable trades. I don't know if that a psychological thing - the other gm not wanting to appear "unfair" or lowballing or whatever.

ChampMan · 02-14-2004, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oregon
the other gm not wanting to appear "unfair" or lowballing or whatever.

hey now lets not take away from a commish having good trade talk skills!

Cuss16 · 02-14-2004, 02:53 PM

a commissioner is usually, if not always the most committed member of the league, therefore he or she tend to pay attention to the players more and tries the hardest.

rem · 02-14-2004, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChampMan
I do feel that as a commish I have the advantage of alot of GMs talking to me about deals that the want to make so I can get word of mouth quicker

Intresting. I've found that GM's in my league usually don't seek out trades with me and that I usually don't seek out trades with the commish of leagues im in.

ChampMan · 02-14-2004, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cuss16
Intresting. I've found that GM's in my league usually don't seek out trades with me and that I usually don't seek out trades with the commish of leagues im in.

why is that?

halofan26 · 02-14-2004, 05:55 PM

i know that in the 4 leagues i run i am the Angels in all of them and i have 1 flag to my name and that is in my historical league and its only a divisional flag at that, now like i read earlier, i make my FA offers before i import offers from other teams, plus i have a great front office in my leagues and they would make any offers for me as the commish and me as the GM.......another great point was the one about the commish being the most involved because we dont have much of a choice lol......but unless they are "trying" to cheat then i would have to say also that most commishes dont have much of an advantage if any at all

clarnzz · 02-14-2004, 06:15 PM

I think commish advantage is just something that owners who either play too many leagues, don't put the time in to win, or really aren't that great of GM's to begin with, but think that they are, whine about.

clarnzz · 02-14-2004, 06:43 PM

I guess I should include the disclaimer about the ethics of a commish. A commish could very well stack his team before the league started, or take advantage of certain systems in the league where the person doing the processing may have an advantage.

I don't see that so much as commish advantage as bad ethics, and I assuming this question is meant to mean. "Does a commish have an advantage if he is not taking advantage of being the commish as an owner, or cheating?"

rem · 02-15-2004, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChampMan
why is that?

I have no idea, just the way things are I guess.

BTW, your quote confused me with Cuss16.

crackpott · 02-15-2004, 01:31 AM

...Commishes do know a lot more about the players. I know of obscure guys in teams minors. Beyond that, when I'm bored sometimes i'll just open up OOTP and start analyzing my team. We spend a lot more time with the game which will of course be an advantage, but as already stated if an owner WANTED to, he could. It's just no one wants to. Commishes do it more out of necessity than the urge to study all the players around the league.

paulywerner · 02-15-2004, 03:05 AM

I for one have to agree, commishes have great advantages. I dont think any of them are software related, meaning the commish is able to manipulate the game in such a way, it would be considered cheating.

The thing with my league is, i wasn't even the original commish of the league when I took the Yankees. I did however create the roster set using pierres utility for OOTP4. Ended up that I was doing a great deal of the work because of the original commishes schedule, and I ended up taking the reigns. AOBL started with a $85mil cap. Well, the Yankees payroll when the league started, was closer to $125mil... Meaning I had to make moves. Alot of the salaries i dumped. or traded for prospects, or even just minor deals. By the time i was done with all my transactions, the Yankees werent the Yankees. I won 113 games in the first season, only to be swept in the 1st round. Then I have won 3 consecutive championships. Does that show evidence of cheating, it might to some, but I know, those who know me, I'm not like that.

But yes, I have an advantage in respect that I'm the most active owner in the league. I never miss an export, and I watch my finances closely. I think all commishes have a tad bit of an advantage. They know every teams finances, they know every teams minors. It is our job, more than it is our responsibility to our own team. And thats the lack of ability for regular gm's to check on those things.

I have helped teams in financial trouble by giving advice, and it worked. If you take a look at teams like the Rebels in the AOBL. They were orginally the D'Rays. Now this poor kid inherited a disaster. All he did was try to be competetive immediately, and it backfired. Once he made the relocation, and got his payroll in control, he made a legit run for a post season birth in 2006.

I consider myself to be smart baseball person. I understand and study the finances of OOTP probrably as much as Markus would when developing the game. Though, I've made a couple of blunders financially as of late in other leagues, I have made sure to keep my revenue as high as possible. Being smart about when I schedule my promotion days, ect. I think that is the reason for my success as a commish and GM in the same league.

I also think every league should have a group of trusted owners to over see everything along side the commish. I'm not talking about "yes sir's".. But rather a group of senior members of the league to help in decision making, data watch, or cheater watch, which ever you prefer. I know 3 of the leagues im in currently has that. If you are in a league, and its just the commish, and doesn't listen to ideas, or critism, you shouldnt be in that league. Its very important to me personally that the owners in my league enjoy themselves. If you have a commish who is always whining about not winning, he might be the best commish. If you have a commish that puts hours on end into a league, that is a good commish. Someone who just slaps together a website, and tells people to export, is not a good commish, and thoughs are the ones to avoid. Because those are the ones who might see advantages to their duties and responsibilities, and exploit them.

With that said, two of the people who replied to this topic thus far ar commishes in leagues that Im a gm in, and one of them im a league official in.

And though Clarnzzy and I have our disagreements, I respect him for the time and effort he puts into a fun and active league. I wouldnt pass up on the time I've spent in the NGBL. But I still think the player training is a srious issue...lol

Halofan, well, he commishes multiple leagues, and equally sux in all of them. He dont even use his commish advantages to propell him into the postseason. Mostly, its his choice of team, but dont think that 100% of it... hehe.

Me on the other hand, I enjoy what i do for the AOBL. I put alot of personal time into the league, and enjoy just about every minute of it. Have I been on the verge of ending it??? yes on numberous occasions. But I have a responsibility to eveyrone in the league, especially for those who have stuck it out since the beginning. Walt is one of those owners. Walt has to be the most consistant owner in the league. I think he missed 2 exports all season. And that with all the confusion from my move, and from the holidays. Thats all a commish could ask for, is someone who takes care of their team. As for my Yankees, well, I won the series, but ive been screwed with arbitration, and large contracts, and it looks like rebuild time.. Speaking of....

Hey Walt...You interested in Helton? Id like to get my hands on Boof...lol

Karen Lutz · 02-15-2004, 03:10 AM

commishs who do not run teams kick ass, that is all I will say about that.

dougaiton · 02-15-2004, 06:07 AM

And when you cmish a leeg as gud as the SBLE, you dam wel no wot yu iz tokkin abow.

satchel · 02-17-2004, 01:43 AM

My NPBL team was the worst in the league this year (draft pick already traded away beforehand), and my JL team is a contender for last place this season.

sporr · 02-17-2004, 10:31 AM

I have had much more success in leagues that I don't commish. I think it's because I spend my time in our league on writing league-wide stories and doing other work when I should be working on my team.

02-14-2004, 12:36 PM	#1
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	does a league commissioner have an advantage i gave this question some thought awhile back. it is impossible not to notice that commissioners have a record of great success in most leagues. to some extent it is to be expected that a commissioner will have more success than the average gm because in starting the league most, if not all gms will have first pick of the teams and pick a good one. let me make one thing clear i am not talking about cheating! i am wondering if the makeup of the game allows league conmmissioners certain advantages. if the game does then i think it will become a real problem. but first without jumping to any conclusions i would like to see if in fact there are advantages that people know might exist. let me start by stating one advantage that i think ,not know, exists. in pre-season free agency it appears to me that all free agent offers must go thru the commissioner. thus if a commish is going to make an offer on a free agent he or she would know the best offer and obviuously have an advantage in making offers. this advantage just seems logical to me but i am not sure that the advantage does exist in fact. but if it does it is a great advantage. are there any others?

02-14-2004, 01:41 PM	#4
ChampMan Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Melbourne,FL Posts: 363	As a commish I for one try and make my bids before exporting all other FA offers then i process the amount of days, as for the team i took well I have been a Braves fan since 84' so that was a no brainer, I do feel that as a commish I have the advantage of alot of GMs talking to me about deals that the want to make so I can get word of mouth quicker, I also feel the reason most commsihes are succesfull is that anyone that would put this much time into a league by running it as wel as a team has a serious love of the game both baseball and ootp so if you love something so much you know it like the back of your hand. __________________ http://burrowsleague.com/BLBWeb.html

02-14-2004, 02:53 PM	#8
Cuss16 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: BC, CANADA Posts: 2,994	a commissioner is usually, if not always the most committed member of the league, therefore he or she tend to pay attention to the players more and tries the hardest. __________________

02-14-2004, 05:55 PM	#11
halofan26 All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anaheim, Ca Posts: 1,491	i know that in the 4 leagues i run i am the Angels in all of them and i have 1 flag to my name and that is in my historical league and its only a divisional flag at that, now like i read earlier, i make my FA offers before i import offers from other teams, plus i have a great front office in my leagues and they would make any offers for me as the commish and me as the GM.......another great point was the one about the commish being the most involved because we dont have much of a choice lol......but unless they are "trying" to cheat then i would have to say also that most commishes dont have much of an advantage if any at all __________________ Mike Lambert Sim League Central President Home of the Halofan roster set THE best baseball info and fan site ever The best Angels fan site "Because i got high" - Afroman

02-14-2004, 06:15 PM	#12
clarnzz All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Following everyone off a cliff. Posts: 1,522	I think commish advantage is just something that owners who either play too many leagues, don't put the time in to win, or really aren't that great of GM's to begin with, but think that they are, whine about. Last edited by clarnzz; 02-14-2004 at 06:18 PM.

02-14-2004, 01:20 PM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,539	Two points: 1. Your first point about a Commish picking a good team isn't always the case. I've seen leagues where Commish's take bad teams because they want a challange. There are also many leagues that start with a redraft, so everyone basically has the same chance of picking good players. 2. During FA the Commish does not see all bids, unless he blatantly cheats, as they go through ftp and are imported into the game. The Commish imports the bids, then runs X number of days of FA. He only sees his own bids. The only advantage I see, and I don't really consider it an advantage since everyone in the league can do the same, is that he becomes more familiar with the players quicker because he processes all trades, cuts, signings, waivers, runs the sims and sees whats happening game by game, etc. Any owner could spend as much time as the Commish studying or learning the players if he/she so chose to.

02-14-2004, 01:33 PM	#3
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	ok good reply. point number one to me is not any kind of meaningful advantage. when a guy starts a league he should at least have the right to choose whatever team he wants. number 2. so if a commissioner wants to cheat he can but he does not necessarily have access to the bids unless he wants to see them. i thought that he would automatically see them. ok i fell better about that because i don't think many people are in the leagues to cheat. point number 3 does not seem like an advantage but rather a result of working at winning. so far - so good.

02-14-2004, 01:49 PM	#5
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	that is the way i feel. i have so much fun doing this i just want to see if there are any built-in problems with the game

02-14-2004, 02:28 PM	#6
oregon Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 145	I think commishes generally do well because they're the most active owner, and in on-line leagues it seems that the most active owners do well, regardless. There are so many win-win trades to make, FA's to sign, etc.... that the gm who pays close attention gives himself a good advantage. I also notice that commishes often get very favorable trades. I don't know if that a psychological thing - the other gm not wanting to appear "unfair" or lowballing or whatever.

02-14-2004, 06:43 PM	#13
clarnzz All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Following everyone off a cliff. Posts: 1,522	I guess I should include the disclaimer about the ethics of a commish. A commish could very well stack his team before the league started, or take advantage of certain systems in the league where the person doing the processing may have an advantage. I don't see that so much as commish advantage as bad ethics, and I assuming this question is meant to mean. "Does a commish have an advantage if he is not taking advantage of being the commish as an owner, or cheating?"

02-15-2004, 01:31 AM	#15
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	...Commishes do know a lot more about the players. I know of obscure guys in teams minors. Beyond that, when I'm bored sometimes i'll just open up OOTP and start analyzing my team. We spend a lot more time with the game which will of course be an advantage, but as already stated if an owner WANTED to, he could. It's just no one wants to. Commishes do it more out of necessity than the urge to study all the players around the league. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

02-15-2004, 03:05 AM	#16
paulywerner Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 319	I for one have to agree, commishes have great advantages. I dont think any of them are software related, meaning the commish is able to manipulate the game in such a way, it would be considered cheating. The thing with my league is, i wasn't even the original commish of the league when I took the Yankees. I did however create the roster set using pierres utility for OOTP4. Ended up that I was doing a great deal of the work because of the original commishes schedule, and I ended up taking the reigns. AOBL started with a $85mil cap. Well, the Yankees payroll when the league started, was closer to $125mil... Meaning I had to make moves. Alot of the salaries i dumped. or traded for prospects, or even just minor deals. By the time i was done with all my transactions, the Yankees werent the Yankees. I won 113 games in the first season, only to be swept in the 1st round. Then I have won 3 consecutive championships. Does that show evidence of cheating, it might to some, but I know, those who know me, I'm not like that. But yes, I have an advantage in respect that I'm the most active owner in the league. I never miss an export, and I watch my finances closely. I think all commishes have a tad bit of an advantage. They know every teams finances, they know every teams minors. It is our job, more than it is our responsibility to our own team. And thats the lack of ability for regular gm's to check on those things. I have helped teams in financial trouble by giving advice, and it worked. If you take a look at teams like the Rebels in the AOBL. They were orginally the D'Rays. Now this poor kid inherited a disaster. All he did was try to be competetive immediately, and it backfired. Once he made the relocation, and got his payroll in control, he made a legit run for a post season birth in 2006. I consider myself to be smart baseball person. I understand and study the finances of OOTP probrably as much as Markus would when developing the game. Though, I've made a couple of blunders financially as of late in other leagues, I have made sure to keep my revenue as high as possible. Being smart about when I schedule my promotion days, ect. I think that is the reason for my success as a commish and GM in the same league. I also think every league should have a group of trusted owners to over see everything along side the commish. I'm not talking about "yes sir's".. But rather a group of senior members of the league to help in decision making, data watch, or cheater watch, which ever you prefer. I know 3 of the leagues im in currently has that. If you are in a league, and its just the commish, and doesn't listen to ideas, or critism, you shouldnt be in that league. Its very important to me personally that the owners in my league enjoy themselves. If you have a commish who is always whining about not winning, he might be the best commish. If you have a commish that puts hours on end into a league, that is a good commish. Someone who just slaps together a website, and tells people to export, is not a good commish, and thoughs are the ones to avoid. Because those are the ones who might see advantages to their duties and responsibilities, and exploit them. With that said, two of the people who replied to this topic thus far ar commishes in leagues that Im a gm in, and one of them im a league official in. And though Clarnzzy and I have our disagreements, I respect him for the time and effort he puts into a fun and active league. I wouldnt pass up on the time I've spent in the NGBL. But I still think the player training is a srious issue...lol Halofan, well, he commishes multiple leagues, and equally sux in all of them. He dont even use his commish advantages to propell him into the postseason. Mostly, its his choice of team, but dont think that 100% of it... hehe. Me on the other hand, I enjoy what i do for the AOBL. I put alot of personal time into the league, and enjoy just about every minute of it. Have I been on the verge of ending it??? yes on numberous occasions. But I have a responsibility to eveyrone in the league, especially for those who have stuck it out since the beginning. Walt is one of those owners. Walt has to be the most consistant owner in the league. I think he missed 2 exports all season. And that with all the confusion from my move, and from the holidays. Thats all a commish could ask for, is someone who takes care of their team. As for my Yankees, well, I won the series, but ive been screwed with arbitration, and large contracts, and it looks like rebuild time.. Speaking of.... Hey Walt...You interested in Helton? Id like to get my hands on Boof...lol __________________ "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." OTBA Manhattan Millionaires The Juiced Baseball League Kansas City Royals United Baseball League Montreal Expos Bricks and Ivy Washington Nationals Last edited by paulywerner; 02-15-2004 at 03:11 AM.

02-15-2004, 03:10 AM	#17
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	commishs who do not run teams kick ass, that is all I will say about that.

02-15-2004, 06:07 AM	#18
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	And when you cmish a leeg as gud as the SBLE, you dam wel no wot yu iz tokkin abow. __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

02-17-2004, 01:43 AM	#19
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	My NPBL team was the worst in the league this year (draft pick already traded away beforehand), and my JL team is a contender for last place this season. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

02-17-2004, 10:31 AM	#20
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	I have had much more success in leagues that I don't commish. I think it's because I spend my time in our league on writing league-wide stories and doing other work when I should be working on my team.