How do you select MVP?

koohead · 12-26-2003, 09:38 AM

Subject says it all...let me hear your thoughts and theories. Be it Win shares or whatever. A brief explanation would help convince me!

Carlton · 12-26-2003, 09:55 AM

Well I am in the deadball era, so quite obviously...I choose the Chalmer's Batter as the highest Avg and the Chalmer's P as the one with the most Wins
ROY is the best amongst Avg or wins, but nod goes to a P if it's close

Lame, I know...but baseball was a nice simple game back then

OBI WAN TAKING OVER

"Before the dark times, before...the StatZheadz"

BaseballMan · 12-26-2003, 10:24 AM

The way i do it now takes a little extra work.
I have to run cato utility twice. Once to get that seasons winshares since i cant find anything else that works, and then the 2nd time i run cato is to progress the career.

The reason i do this is to get winshares for that season.
Because i take the top 5 in winshares and then add their black ink pts to get a total amount of points. I also have a rule that pitchers must have the highest batters amount of points plus half the amount of the highest batters pts.
Ex Cobb has 30 then Mathewson must have 45 to tie or 46 to beat out Cobb.
Seems to work. Because the winshares pretty much eliminates anybody unworthy but the black ink test keeps it from being automatic. I havent seen very many pitchers win it. Its usually guys with high average but not always. I had a guy hit .385 to lead the league but he got beat got by a .327 hitter who had more black ink pts. Pitchers can still win it but its rare so far.
Havent used my system in the home run era yet but i think i might run the 98 season just to see who would be mvp according to my system.

I might add 1 pt for each 10 wins above 500 a players team is but i dont know yet. Im not sure if an MVP should have to come from a winning team. But then again its not MVPof a team its MVP of the LEAGUE.

JWay · 12-26-2003, 10:33 AM

I get a group of players I feel that could win it and let friends pick. Its not fool proof but its okay.

koohead · 12-26-2003, 10:41 AM

BBMan: Wow...you always have such indepth and thought-out processes for selecting your award winners!!!

Where in Cato do you go find the win shares leaders for a selected year? I can find the top win shares scores for a single season, but I can't find the win shares leaderboard for say 2001.
And do you use overall winshares, or just batting vs pitching?

oh..btw...nice signature

JWAY: That would work if my friends didn't look at me with that really "Are you really asking me that question?" puzzled look.

Carlton: You know, I was tossing this idea around last night of giving the batter of the year award to the guy with the highest average instead of letting OOTP select it. The Batter of the Year as selected by OOTP is some kind of Offensive MVP or something...not really sure how that's selected...doesn't make sense if I'm going to award a MVP separately. Do you happen to use Cato? I noticed that Cato sometimes adds hitless at bats to a player in order to qualify him for the leaderboard..would you allow such a person to win the title? Ex: Player A didn't have enough at bats to qualify...but if you add enough hitless at bats, he qualifies and his average would still be the best in the league. Does he get the batting title?

BaseballMan · 12-26-2003, 11:28 AM

i use overall winshares because that way i have pitching, hitting, and fielding all added up. Otherwise i would have to go through hiiters and pitchers and then figure out their fielding pts etc.

The way i find the single season leaders is by running cato twice.
See i run it once just like if i was starting my career at that season and this was my first year running cato. Then after i get my mvps i delete those cato files and copyand paste my career cato files. It helps having a good backup system

See i back up each year in a folder called League History. In that folder i have decade folders and then single season folders. In the single season folders i put the current years League folder, and the current cato data,website files etc.
The reason i do that is that i can go back to any particular year.
When i have to much on my hdd i simply zip it to a cd.

koohead · 12-26-2003, 11:58 AM

I think I understand the running it twice part, but I'm still not finding an easy place to find who my winshares leaders are for a particular year.

BaseballMan · 12-26-2003, 12:16 PM

ok on the winshares screen and on the left for season,
The top one is Total. If you click on that it gives you their total winshares from pitching, batting, fielding.

koohead · 12-26-2003, 12:45 PM

OHHH..okay...I now I got ya. The running it twice thing is the key. so..eventhough you have played x years, you are running cato as if it were the first year first, then running it again to compile it into your historical cato files...right?

Hmm...what a pain in the buttock

BaseballMan · 12-26-2003, 12:57 PM

Yes thats it. Told you it was a little more work but i also remember not to run the career exporter even for the single season report. Other wise you would get all time single season leaders. I think the only time you run the career exporter is for the first year.

Once you get use to it, its not so bad. I dont really bother with any awards on the single cato season just use it for the winshares. Since that is my main objective with running cato the first time. Then i delete those cato files and copy career cato files and copy csv files from temp folder and im done.

Keep in mind a single season isnt gonna take that long to output the html files and you dont have to output the html files on career every season.

Of course if there is another winshares program it would be a lot easier.

koohead · 12-26-2003, 01:06 PM

True..very true. Thanks for the help. I was searching in the MODS forum and noticed that EvanW had created a WS utility using ComishJoe's exporter files. Maybe that would work...anyone have a download link for that? the one in the thread gives me an invalid archive file.

Anyone else use stats like RC/27? Kinda rules out pitchers, but I have a hard time convincing myself that a pitcher would be MVP of a league anyway

sporr · 12-26-2003, 02:14 PM

Never underestimate the powers of the Secondary Average. I usually go with the leader in that category.

twins15 · 12-26-2003, 06:48 PM

How do you pick your own award winners? I have always just gone by what the computer selects, not knowing that you can select your own. I am guessing there is a separate utility made to do this? If this is right, could someone be so kind and tell me what this utility is? Thanks.

BaseballMan · 12-26-2003, 09:49 PM

Well the computer in the game selects the best batter and best pitcher but the cato utility gives you an option of another award.
(Though you must manually choose) This could be the reular season mvp or playoff mvp or world series mvp. Its up to you.

But i dont think there is a utility that will pick your mvp. Might not be a bad idea for someone to create a uitility to do this based with different options for picking the mvp, maybe even for regular season mvp, playoff mvp, world series mvp.
I think picking awards or seing who won at the end of the year is one of the fun parts of the game. Like the hall of fame selection.
I wish we could have as many awards as real baseball.

One thing that might be cool is if Markus could program players to react to the media. Some might donate to charitys and end up with a Roberto Clemente award while others might have the media effect his chase for a home run record.

Carlton · 12-26-2003, 10:59 PM

I use Cato's

Haven't had a problem thus far with someone not having enough ABs to qualify, if I did, I probably wouldn't give them phantom at bats. I changed the qualifiers in Cato's to be reflective of a 15 game schedule.

As for the other MVP award, that is my World Series MVP award...which shows his season instead of postseason stats, I tried to go in and see if I can make it look at postseason, but I am not having much luck with it

BaseballMan · 12-27-2003, 12:37 AM

Carlton,
what i do for world series mvp is to take all POG's during the world series and whoever has the most wins. In case of tie i then just decide. Though i do have a rule that in case of tie the mvp from the winning team has priority. I may use a variation of black ink test like so many hits, homers gets pts. But i also try to keep in mind key moment plays.

Carlton · 12-27-2003, 02:07 AM

So far WS MVP has been very easy for me

Usually a P will dominate, with deadball era and all.

And if that's not the case, I just look over the winning teams roster, see who has been the man when it comes to Xtra base hits...which again is fairly easy.

One day I will have to think long and hard about the MVP, Pitcher and WS MVP...but as of now ROY is my only real hard award

BaseballMan · 12-27-2003, 02:20 AM

Well if you think about it, it is easier for a pitcher to win a WS mvp than regular season mvp. I mean theres been the Jose Rijo, Jack Morris, Randy Johnson & Curt Schlling just to name a few.

12-26-2003, 09:38 AM	#1
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,229	How do you select MVP? Subject says it all...let me hear your thoughts and theories. Be it Win shares or whatever. A brief explanation would help convince me! __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

12-26-2003, 09:55 AM	#2
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	Well I am in the deadball era, so quite obviously...I choose the Chalmer's Batter as the highest Avg and the Chalmer's P as the one with the most Wins ROY is the best amongst Avg or wins, but nod goes to a P if it's close Lame, I know...but baseball was a nice simple game back then OBI WAN TAKING OVER "Before the dark times, before...the StatZheadz" __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

12-26-2003, 10:24 AM	#3
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,620	The way i do it now takes a little extra work. I have to run cato utility twice. Once to get that seasons winshares since i cant find anything else that works, and then the 2nd time i run cato is to progress the career. The reason i do this is to get winshares for that season. Because i take the top 5 in winshares and then add their black ink pts to get a total amount of points. I also have a rule that pitchers must have the highest batters amount of points plus half the amount of the highest batters pts. Ex Cobb has 30 then Mathewson must have 45 to tie or 46 to beat out Cobb. Seems to work. Because the winshares pretty much eliminates anybody unworthy but the black ink test keeps it from being automatic. I havent seen very many pitchers win it. Its usually guys with high average but not always. I had a guy hit .385 to lead the league but he got beat got by a .327 hitter who had more black ink pts. Pitchers can still win it but its rare so far. Havent used my system in the home run era yet but i think i might run the 98 season just to see who would be mvp according to my system. I might add 1 pt for each 10 wins above 500 a players team is but i dont know yet. Im not sure if an MVP should have to come from a winning team. But then again its not MVPof a team its MVP of the LEAGUE. Last edited by BaseballMan; 12-26-2003 at 10:29 AM.

12-26-2003, 10:41 AM	#5
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,229	BBMan: Wow...you always have such indepth and thought-out processes for selecting your award winners!!! Where in Cato do you go find the win shares leaders for a selected year? I can find the top win shares scores for a single season, but I can't find the win shares leaderboard for say 2001. And do you use overall winshares, or just batting vs pitching? oh..btw...nice signature JWAY: That would work if my friends didn't look at me with that really "Are you really asking me that question?" puzzled look. Carlton: You know, I was tossing this idea around last night of giving the batter of the year award to the guy with the highest average instead of letting OOTP select it. The Batter of the Year as selected by OOTP is some kind of Offensive MVP or something...not really sure how that's selected...doesn't make sense if I'm going to award a MVP separately. Do you happen to use Cato? I noticed that Cato sometimes adds hitless at bats to a player in order to qualify him for the leaderboard..would you allow such a person to win the title? Ex: Player A didn't have enough at bats to qualify...but if you add enough hitless at bats, he qualifies and his average would still be the best in the league. Does he get the batting title? __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL; Last edited by koohead; 12-26-2003 at 10:46 AM.

12-26-2003, 11:58 AM	#7
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,229	I think I understand the running it twice part, but I'm still not finding an easy place to find who my winshares leaders are for a particular year. __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

12-26-2003, 10:33 AM	#4
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	I get a group of players I feel that could win it and let friends pick. Its not fool proof but its okay.

12-26-2003, 11:28 AM	#6
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,620	i use overall winshares because that way i have pitching, hitting, and fielding all added up. Otherwise i would have to go through hiiters and pitchers and then figure out their fielding pts etc. The way i find the single season leaders is by running cato twice. See i run it once just like if i was starting my career at that season and this was my first year running cato. Then after i get my mvps i delete those cato files and copyand paste my career cato files. It helps having a good backup system See i back up each year in a folder called League History. In that folder i have decade folders and then single season folders. In the single season folders i put the current years League folder, and the current cato data,website files etc. The reason i do that is that i can go back to any particular year. When i have to much on my hdd i simply zip it to a cd.

12-26-2003, 12:16 PM	#8
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,620	ok on the winshares screen and on the left for season, The top one is Total. If you click on that it gives you their total winshares from pitching, batting, fielding.

12-26-2003, 12:45 PM	#9
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,229	OHHH..okay...I now I got ya. The running it twice thing is the key. so..eventhough you have played x years, you are running cato as if it were the first year first, then running it again to compile it into your historical cato files...right? Hmm...what a pain in the buttock __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

12-26-2003, 12:57 PM	#10
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,620	Yes thats it. Told you it was a little more work but i also remember not to run the career exporter even for the single season report. Other wise you would get all time single season leaders. I think the only time you run the career exporter is for the first year. Once you get use to it, its not so bad. I dont really bother with any awards on the single cato season just use it for the winshares. Since that is my main objective with running cato the first time. Then i delete those cato files and copy career cato files and copy csv files from temp folder and im done. Keep in mind a single season isnt gonna take that long to output the html files and you dont have to output the html files on career every season. Of course if there is another winshares program it would be a lot easier. Last edited by BaseballMan; 12-26-2003 at 12:59 PM.

12-26-2003, 01:06 PM	#11
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,229	True..very true. Thanks for the help. I was searching in the MODS forum and noticed that EvanW had created a WS utility using ComishJoe's exporter files. Maybe that would work...anyone have a download link for that? the one in the thread gives me an invalid archive file. Anyone else use stats like RC/27? Kinda rules out pitchers, but I have a hard time convincing myself that a pitcher would be MVP of a league anyway __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

12-26-2003, 02:14 PM	#12
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	Never underestimate the powers of the Secondary Average. I usually go with the leader in that category.

12-26-2003, 06:48 PM	#13
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	How do you pick your own award winners? I have always just gone by what the computer selects, not knowing that you can select your own. I am guessing there is a separate utility made to do this? If this is right, could someone be so kind and tell me what this utility is? Thanks. __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

12-26-2003, 09:49 PM	#14
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,620	Well the computer in the game selects the best batter and best pitcher but the cato utility gives you an option of another award. (Though you must manually choose) This could be the reular season mvp or playoff mvp or world series mvp. Its up to you. But i dont think there is a utility that will pick your mvp. Might not be a bad idea for someone to create a uitility to do this based with different options for picking the mvp, maybe even for regular season mvp, playoff mvp, world series mvp. I think picking awards or seing who won at the end of the year is one of the fun parts of the game. Like the hall of fame selection. I wish we could have as many awards as real baseball. One thing that might be cool is if Markus could program players to react to the media. Some might donate to charitys and end up with a Roberto Clemente award while others might have the media effect his chase for a home run record.

12-26-2003, 10:59 PM	#15
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	I use Cato's Haven't had a problem thus far with someone not having enough ABs to qualify, if I did, I probably wouldn't give them phantom at bats. I changed the qualifiers in Cato's to be reflective of a 15 game schedule. As for the other MVP award, that is my World Series MVP award...which shows his season instead of postseason stats, I tried to go in and see if I can make it look at postseason, but I am not having much luck with it __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

12-27-2003, 12:37 AM	#16
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,620	Carlton, what i do for world series mvp is to take all POG's during the world series and whoever has the most wins. In case of tie i then just decide. Though i do have a rule that in case of tie the mvp from the winning team has priority. I may use a variation of black ink test like so many hits, homers gets pts. But i also try to keep in mind key moment plays.

12-27-2003, 02:07 AM	#17
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	So far WS MVP has been very easy for me Usually a P will dominate, with deadball era and all. And if that's not the case, I just look over the winning teams roster, see who has been the man when it comes to Xtra base hits...which again is fairly easy. One day I will have to think long and hard about the MVP, Pitcher and WS MVP...but as of now ROY is my only real hard award __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

12-27-2003, 02:20 AM	#18
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,620	Well if you think about it, it is easier for a pitcher to win a WS mvp than regular season mvp. I mean theres been the Jose Rijo, Jack Morris, Randy Johnson & Curt Schlling just to name a few.