Do the 2003 Mariners have enough talent to hold off the A's?

Mariner and Giants Fan · 08-18-2003, 04:33 PM

In 2000 and 2002 The Seattle Mariners blew division leads in August to the Oakland A's. The A's are a notoriously strong finishing team from August to October since 2000. In 2001 it took 116 wins by the M's to hold them off.

My question is: can this year's Mariner team hold onto first place?
Some data to consider: The M's have been playing around .500 ball since the All Star Break. Last year the A's ran off a 20 game winning streak about this time.

I am not sure that this year's A's team is capable of streaking like the past few years teams. Yes they have 4 good to great starters. Though Harden is overrated in my book. The Mariners also have 4 good to great starting pitchers. So I think it will come down to who hit's the most consistently and which pitchers get hot!

Neither team is particularly good at hitting, though I might give the edge to the M's. The A's starting four of Zito-Muldar-Hudson-Harden may be better than the M's starting four of Moyer-Pinero-Meche-Garcia. However the M's bullpen is easily stronger than the A's, especially in long-middle and setup relief.

It should be an exciting race.

The one move that the M's made that befuddles me is the Nelson for Benitez trade. On the surface this looked like a good move if the M's needed a closer, which they apparently did with Kaz down and not recovering to well. However Shiggy has been unbelievable in the closers role. Benitez sucks as a setup man. Kaz seems ineffective. This could be the one area where the M's have a problem, though Soriano and Mateo are awesome, yet they are still kids.

Those head to head games down the stretch will certainly be exciting!

Jordan · 08-18-2003, 05:01 PM

I really hope so, they certainly have the talent to win a World Series. But, in the last cople of years, like you said, they've been choke artists

jaxmagicman · 08-18-2003, 05:07 PM

I will go for the A's to take the division. I think the Mariners are good, but the Pitching of the A's is just too good. The head to head games should be really telling. The only hope the Mariners have is to get a big lead now before the A's make their run.

jaxmagicman · 08-18-2003, 05:09 PM

Oh, and there is no Way Harden is overated. He is a rookie, and he still has a lot to learn. But you can see his spectacular talent and unbelievable skills. He will probably become the Ace of the staff in four to Five years.

Dwolfson20 · 08-18-2003, 05:45 PM

They'll win if they put Soriano in the rotation.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 08-18-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwolfson20
They'll win if they put Soriano in the rotation.

That experiment did not work very well last year. Don't yu think he is more valuable as a middle man? Who would he replace? Franklin?

I think he is better where he is. Maybe next year, from the beginning of the year, he could start off as a starter. Especially if they let Freddy walk.

CMH · 08-18-2003, 11:20 PM

MAG, are you askin for another on-topic thread to turn into an off-topic one?

twins15 · 08-18-2003, 11:27 PM

What's everyone's thoughts on religion?

Dwolfson20 · 08-18-2003, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mariner and Giants Fan
That experiment did not work very well last year. Don't yu think he is more valuable as a middle man? Who would he replace? Franklin?

I think he is better where he is. Maybe next year, from the beginning of the year, he could start off as a starter. Especially if they let Freddy walk.

No; a good starter is always more valuable than a good middle reliever. And the Mariners have generally used him in meaningless situations.

blackamus · 08-19-2003, 10:59 PM

With Rob Neyer in the A's corner, how could they lose?

Dwolfson20 · 08-19-2003, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackamus
With Rob Neyer in the A's corner, how could they lose?

Actually, he's a Royals fan.

Skipaway · 08-20-2003, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwolfson20
Actually, he's a Royals fan.

Yeah, Neyer is Billy Beane's fan, not the A's fan.

For the Mariners, I think their issue was always age and lack of bench depth. This combo made them prone to late season meltdowns. However, old teams still got the chance stay healthy and productive like the Dbacks 2 years ago.

I think they are good enough to hold the lead.

twins15 · 08-20-2003, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwolfson20
Actually, he's a Royals fan.

And as they showed this weekend, they have no chance to win the division.

Dwolfson20 · 08-20-2003, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipaway
Yeah, Neyer is Billy Beane's fan, not the A's fan.

For the Mariners, I think their issue was always age and lack of bench depth. This combo made them prone to late season meltdowns. However, old teams still got the chance stay healthy and productive like the Dbacks 2 years ago.

I think they are good enough to hold the lead.

They still have that lack of bench depth, though. If they get any serious injuries, they'll be in big trouble.

blackamus · 08-20-2003, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwolfson20
Actually, he's a Royals fan.

so maintaining a longstanding unrequited love for the GM of a team does not make one a fan of said team?

so just because I find John Hart's bling-bling appeal attractive, that doesn't make me a Ranger's fan??? That is such good news because I have always hated the American League.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 08-21-2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twins15
What's everyone's thoughts on religion?

To quote the Bible (New King James Version)

James 1:26 "If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless"

James 1:27 "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world"

To answer your question, religion as it is used today is useless, I cannot abide it, however I love the Lord and live for him!

Are you now sorry you asked this question? Even to be "funny"

Dwolfson20 · 08-21-2003, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackamus
so maintaining a longstanding unrequited love for the GM of a team does not make one a fan of said team?

so just because I find John Hart's bling-bling appeal attractive, that doesn't make me a Ranger's fan??? That is such good news because I have always hated the American League.

Hmm, didn't think you'd take that so seriously... OK, Neyer is a Royals fan primarily. But he is also a fan of other teams that use a Sabermetric approach, just not as much. How's that?

blackamus · 08-21-2003, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwolfson20
Hmm, didn't think you'd take that so seriously... OK, Neyer is a Royals fan primarily. But he is also a fan of other teams that use a Sabermetric approach, just not as much. How's that?

sorry...I wasn't being serious. i have a lot of time on my hands at night when I'm at work.

08-18-2003, 04:33 PM	#1
Mariner and Giants Fan All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Port Townsend, WA. Posts: 1,264	Do the 2003 Mariners have enough talent to hold off the A's? In 2000 and 2002 The Seattle Mariners blew division leads in August to the Oakland A's. The A's are a notoriously strong finishing team from August to October since 2000. In 2001 it took 116 wins by the M's to hold them off. My question is: can this year's Mariner team hold onto first place? Some data to consider: The M's have been playing around .500 ball since the All Star Break. Last year the A's ran off a 20 game winning streak about this time. I am not sure that this year's A's team is capable of streaking like the past few years teams. Yes they have 4 good to great starters. Though Harden is overrated in my book. The Mariners also have 4 good to great starting pitchers. So I think it will come down to who hit's the most consistently and which pitchers get hot! Neither team is particularly good at hitting, though I might give the edge to the M's. The A's starting four of Zito-Muldar-Hudson-Harden may be better than the M's starting four of Moyer-Pinero-Meche-Garcia. However the M's bullpen is easily stronger than the A's, especially in long-middle and setup relief. It should be an exciting race. The one move that the M's made that befuddles me is the Nelson for Benitez trade. On the surface this looked like a good move if the M's needed a closer, which they apparently did with Kaz down and not recovering to well. However Shiggy has been unbelievable in the closers role. Benitez sucks as a setup man. Kaz seems ineffective. This could be the one area where the M's have a problem, though Soriano and Mateo are awesome, yet they are still kids. Those head to head games down the stretch will certainly be exciting!

08-18-2003, 05:07 PM	#3
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	I will go for the A's to take the division. I think the Mariners are good, but the Pitching of the A's is just too good. The head to head games should be really telling. The only hope the Mariners have is to get a big lead now before the A's make their run. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

08-18-2003, 05:09 PM	#4
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	Oh, and there is no Way Harden is overated. He is a rookie, and he still has a lot to learn. But you can see his spectacular talent and unbelievable skills. He will probably become the Ace of the staff in four to Five years. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

08-18-2003, 05:45 PM	#5
Dwolfson20 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not St. Louis Posts: 2,872	They'll win if they put Soriano in the rotation. __________________

08-18-2003, 11:27 PM	#8
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	What's everyone's thoughts on religion? __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

08-18-2003, 05:01 PM	#2
Jordan All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chi Suburbs now... Posts: 1,991	I really hope so, they certainly have the talent to win a World Series. But, in the last cople of years, like you said, they've been choke artists

08-18-2003, 11:20 PM	#7
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	MAG, are you askin for another on-topic thread to turn into an off-topic one?

08-19-2003, 10:59 PM	#10
blackamus Major Leagues Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 377	With Rob Neyer in the A's corner, how could they lose? __________________ http://www.iraqbodycount.net/