19th Century Help

sharpmath · 08-04-2003, 03:58 AM

I was just pointed in the direction of a thread showing how it is possible to start a Historical Sim way back in 1871. Which is great. I don't have OOTP4, so I downloaded a file posted by a helpful chap to get me started.

Im using the default ball pakrks, as I have no idea where to find dats for the parks back then (if there are any), those would be swell to find! And does anyone know the proper numbers to plug in to get good stats? But anyways, I digress, those are but cosmetic concerns, compared to my big question.

Will I be able to add another league, when it is time to do so?

My only historical sim experience starts in 1901, so Ive never had to face the problem of deleting or adding a league.

I can't do it before the Amateur Draft, which is right where the file I downloaded is set-up.

Im just wondering if I will be able to do it at the VERY start of the season, or what? I don't want to get too far into this just to find out I can't do what I need to do. Id much rathar start from the start at 1871, and will gladly forsake my 1901 league, which has now gone to 1913, but Id like to know more first!

Any help would be , well, helpful! Thanks muchly!

Bluenoser · 08-04-2003, 07:40 AM

Can help you with one of your lesser problems.

Here are two places to get ballpark data:

Ballparks 1

Ballparks 2

darkhorse · 08-04-2003, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sharpmath
Will I be able to add another league, when it is time to do so?

Yes, indeed. OOTP has this flexibility.

sharpmath · 08-04-2003, 02:40 PM

Excellent! Thanks very much BruceM and darkhorse! It always felt kind of cheap to begin at 1901.

darkhorse, as it was your thread that , well, actually, you directed me to that showed me how this was possible, do you have a certain set of League Totals that you use to get good numbers? Or would like, 1901 numbers be the best way to go?

Thanks again!

sharpmath · 08-04-2003, 02:50 PM

Ok. Im going to have to admit I have no clue how to add a league. My only options in league structure are divisions, and teams. I can't find anything about it in the manual. Im assuming it's something deadly obvious? I tried even searching on the board, and it appears the question has not come up, so it must just be me.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 08-04-2003, 03:23 PM

I can't help with adding a league, as I started in 1871 by dividing the teams into 2 4-team leagues so that I'd have postseason. I know OOTP didn't have the ability to add a league, but maybe darkhorse can give you some guidance on the current version - he was instrumental in helping me set up my solo league.

As for the starting league totals, I can give you my numbers when I get home. I also have a formula I use to tinker with the numbers each year for historical accuracy, and it's given me results I'm pretty happy with. I can give you the formula, but it's pretty complicated. Or I can just post what I've used as league totals for the years 1871-83.... they've worked well for me.

sharpmath · 08-04-2003, 03:26 PM

Great! Either way would be fine, which ever is easiest for you when you get home! Thanks!!

darkhorse · 08-04-2003, 03:50 PM

I've never added a new league but was pretty sure this is possible with OOTP. I checked the FAQ forum and there doesn't seem to be anything on the subject. Since the recent forum changes, searches don't seem to work very well.

I always create a pair of 4 team leagues when simming the 1871 season, so as to have a World Series from the start.

I use www.baseballreference.com, a calculator, and several test sims to obtain pristine league totals for each season.

spleen1015 · 08-04-2003, 04:03 PM

There is no way to add a league. You're stuck with the number of leagues you start with.

sharpmath · 08-04-2003, 04:07 PM

Ok! That solves that.

As I stated, I don't have OOTP 4, so I can't start a league there and convert it over.

The one I downloaded is set-up with all the teams in only one league.

Is there any chance anyone has an 1871 League that is split 4/4 into two leagues that they would like to post so I can use it?!

Thanks very much for your time!

Le Grande Orange · 08-04-2003, 04:14 PM

Sorry, but you CANNOT add a second league to a file that already contains one. This OOTP restriction has been in place for all its versions so far.

This inability has always posed a problem for historical simmers when it comes time to add (and later remove) the AA, and add the AL. There were some workarounds for OOTP4, but they no longer appear to work in OOTP5.

Your main choices are to either split your one league years into two leagues, and use a schedule which effectively makes them one combined league and cancel any postseason play for those years, or, extend the life of the second leagues longer than was the case in reality. So, for example, you can (assuming an 1876 start to your sim) start the AA in 1876 instead of 1882, and start the AL in 1892 instead of 1901 (this latter case is not so bad, since the AL started out as the Western League minor league in 1894).

Another possibility might be to use Pierre's editor and import the teams into a new league file when appropriate. Not sure just how much work this would be, or how many of the records may be lost.

You could also try to start a two league file, but leave the second league empty until it's supposed to begin play. In previous OOTP versions this would work for the first season you started, but unfortunately you could not advance to the subsequent season. Not sure if this is still the case in OOTP5; you'd have to test it first.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 08-05-2003, 12:28 AM

Okay.... I'm not 100% sure how I got the numbers I ended up using for 1871, but I think it was off of somebody's website of something.

Be warned: the first year, the variance in the player ratings are such that you will see a few guys hitting around .500. Don't be alarmed; it's actually not all that far removed from reality, especially given the shortness of the schedule.

AB - 100,000
H - 28,033
2B - 4,556
3B - 957
HR - 2,934
BB - 22,525
HBP - 830
K - 38,110

After the first year, I have a kind of lengthy process I go through, which has yielded results I'm happy with without any resimming.

I add up the fictional totals for the league and the actual totals for the next season in hits and at-bats..... then divide it to get a percentage. This will yield something like this:

1871 Fictional: .2710345
1872 Actual: .2530978 (note: i'm just making these figures up as I go along. You'll need to get the real ones.)

Then, I divide the fictional into the actual, which with those numbers yields: 1.0708686. I multiply that by the league totals for hits, so that for the next year the total for hits would be: 30,020.

Now, you do the same thing with each of the other categories. However, with doubles, triples and home runs, you have to factor in the changes made to hits. For instance, you've reduced the number of hits that you'll get in this example by a factor of 1.0708686 for the next year. Now, that's going to have an impact on doubles, triples and home runs.

So, if my fictional league had 676 doubles, I need to reduce that by that same factor before I start calculating. When I divide 676 by 1.0708686, I reduce the number of doubles to 631. Then I do the calculations with 631 as the number for "fictional" total.

Looking this over, I see that it didn't make that much sense. If you have further questions, you can email me at whrimfunis@yahoo.com and I'll see if I can explain better.

08-04-2003, 03:58 AM	#1
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	19th Century Help I was just pointed in the direction of a thread showing how it is possible to start a Historical Sim way back in 1871. Which is great. I don't have OOTP4, so I downloaded a file posted by a helpful chap to get me started. Im using the default ball pakrks, as I have no idea where to find dats for the parks back then (if there are any), those would be swell to find! And does anyone know the proper numbers to plug in to get good stats? But anyways, I digress, those are but cosmetic concerns, compared to my big question. Will I be able to add another league, when it is time to do so? My only historical sim experience starts in 1901, so Ive never had to face the problem of deleting or adding a league. I can't do it before the Amateur Draft, which is right where the file I downloaded is set-up. Im just wondering if I will be able to do it at the VERY start of the season, or what? I don't want to get too far into this just to find out I can't do what I need to do. Id much rathar start from the start at 1871, and will gladly forsake my 1901 league, which has now gone to 1913, but Id like to know more first! Any help would be , well, helpful! Thanks muchly! __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.

08-04-2003, 02:40 PM	#4
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	Excellent! Thanks very much BruceM and darkhorse! It always felt kind of cheap to begin at 1901. darkhorse, as it was your thread that , well, actually, you directed me to that showed me how this was possible, do you have a certain set of League Totals that you use to get good numbers? Or would like, 1901 numbers be the best way to go? Thanks again! __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.

08-04-2003, 02:50 PM	#5
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	Ok. Im going to have to admit I have no clue how to add a league. My only options in league structure are divisions, and teams. I can't find anything about it in the manual. Im assuming it's something deadly obvious? I tried even searching on the board, and it appears the question has not come up, so it must just be me. __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.

08-04-2003, 03:23 PM	#6
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	I can't help with adding a league, as I started in 1871 by dividing the teams into 2 4-team leagues so that I'd have postseason. I know OOTP didn't have the ability to add a league, but maybe darkhorse can give you some guidance on the current version - he was instrumental in helping me set up my solo league. As for the starting league totals, I can give you my numbers when I get home. I also have a formula I use to tinker with the numbers each year for historical accuracy, and it's given me results I'm pretty happy with. I can give you the formula, but it's pretty complicated. Or I can just post what I've used as league totals for the years 1871-83.... they've worked well for me. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

08-04-2003, 03:26 PM	#7
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	Great! Either way would be fine, which ever is easiest for you when you get home! Thanks!! __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.

08-04-2003, 07:40 AM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,224	Can help you with one of your lesser problems. Here are two places to get ballpark data: Ballparks 1 Ballparks 2

08-04-2003, 03:50 PM	#8
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	I've never added a new league but was pretty sure this is possible with OOTP. I checked the FAQ forum and there doesn't seem to be anything on the subject. Since the recent forum changes, searches don't seem to work very well. I always create a pair of 4 team leagues when simming the 1871 season, so as to have a World Series from the start. I use www.baseballreference.com, a calculator, and several test sims to obtain pristine league totals for each season.

08-04-2003, 04:03 PM	#9
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,005	There is no way to add a league. You're stuck with the number of leagues you start with.

08-04-2003, 04:07 PM	#10
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	Ok! That solves that. As I stated, I don't have OOTP 4, so I can't start a league there and convert it over. The one I downloaded is set-up with all the teams in only one league. Is there any chance anyone has an 1871 League that is split 4/4 into two leagues that they would like to post so I can use it?! Thanks very much for your time! __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.

08-04-2003, 04:14 PM	#11
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Sorry, but you CANNOT add a second league to a file that already contains one. This OOTP restriction has been in place for all its versions so far. This inability has always posed a problem for historical simmers when it comes time to add (and later remove) the AA, and add the AL. There were some workarounds for OOTP4, but they no longer appear to work in OOTP5. Your main choices are to either split your one league years into two leagues, and use a schedule which effectively makes them one combined league and cancel any postseason play for those years, or, extend the life of the second leagues longer than was the case in reality. So, for example, you can (assuming an 1876 start to your sim) start the AA in 1876 instead of 1882, and start the AL in 1892 instead of 1901 (this latter case is not so bad, since the AL started out as the Western League minor league in 1894). Another possibility might be to use Pierre's editor and import the teams into a new league file when appropriate. Not sure just how much work this would be, or how many of the records may be lost. You could also try to start a two league file, but leave the second league empty until it's supposed to begin play. In previous OOTP versions this would work for the first season you started, but unfortunately you could not advance to the subsequent season. Not sure if this is still the case in OOTP5; you'd have to test it first.

08-05-2003, 12:28 AM	#12
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Okay.... I'm not 100% sure how I got the numbers I ended up using for 1871, but I think it was off of somebody's website of something. Be warned: the first year, the variance in the player ratings are such that you will see a few guys hitting around .500. Don't be alarmed; it's actually not all that far removed from reality, especially given the shortness of the schedule. AB - 100,000 H - 28,033 2B - 4,556 3B - 957 HR - 2,934 BB - 22,525 HBP - 830 K - 38,110 After the first year, I have a kind of lengthy process I go through, which has yielded results I'm happy with without any resimming. I add up the fictional totals for the league and the actual totals for the next season in hits and at-bats..... then divide it to get a percentage. This will yield something like this: 1871 Fictional: .2710345 1872 Actual: .2530978 (note: i'm just making these figures up as I go along. You'll need to get the real ones.) Then, I divide the fictional into the actual, which with those numbers yields: 1.0708686. I multiply that by the league totals for hits, so that for the next year the total for hits would be: 30,020. Now, you do the same thing with each of the other categories. However, with doubles, triples and home runs, you have to factor in the changes made to hits. For instance, you've reduced the number of hits that you'll get in this example by a factor of 1.0708686 for the next year. Now, that's going to have an impact on doubles, triples and home runs. So, if my fictional league had 676 doubles, I need to reduce that by that same factor before I start calculating. When I divide 676 by 1.0708686, I reduce the number of doubles to 631. Then I do the calculations with 631 as the number for "fictional" total. Looking this over, I see that it didn't make that much sense. If you have further questions, you can email me at whrimfunis@yahoo.com and I'll see if I can explain better. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.