Is Your Commish is Cheating? -- The Red Flags

Tito · 07-12-2003, 10:37 AM

Hey guys, I've been playing for a couple of years and it seems that the Commish almost always 1) makes the playoffs or 2) wins the W.S. Who's a great GM and who is manipulating the data?

I'd like to know what some of the red flags are, nuances that can be detected that would let someone know that something is fishy with the league.

I saw a post where a player's accomplishments (i.e. won W.S.) were listed 3 times at the bottom of the page. In another post, a team has 18 injuries and others have 0 or 1. Things like that.

I was once in a league where we needed a temporary Commish and this guy stepped in and went power-hungry. He drafted a 4.0 kid who was a D defensively and had awful speed. By next sim he was 5.0, B defensively and the second coming of Rickey Henderson! Now that one was obvious--I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.

A.J. Holz · 07-12-2003, 11:01 AM

Accomplishments listed multiple times in the player history can be a sure sign that the commish is simming ahead, then rolling back the sim if things didn't go his way.

See this thread for some good input on this type of situation.

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...threadid=39247

As a commish in a league where I currently have a first-place team, I can tell you that oftentimes a commish will have a good team just because they are involved with the league on a day-to-day basis and will contribute exports on a regular basis. So just having a good team doesn't mean that person is cheating - make sure you see several of these types of things going on before you come to a conclusion about your commish.

CDL Commish · 07-12-2003, 11:09 AM

There are many ways to cheat as a commissioner but there are certainly things that are the most obvious and the most attempted scams. Just a couple of the most popular...

-Players getting a talent bump and it not showing up on the player development page. I'm not just referring to the common ones of avoiding hits, getting hits, hitting HRs, etc, but also stealing ability, injury ratings, clutch performance, stamina ratings, etc.

-Players who just appear on a new team without any documented transactions in either the player history or the transaction news page.

-Players getting released from one team and then signed for a cheap contract to the commish's team.

-Players getting rating bumps at an unnatural pace. For example, if you have a great SP prospect who has a 0 ERA rating it wouldn't be normal to see that guy at AAA with an 8 rating within a season. A player like this will take at the very least 4 minor league seasons before he will be in AAA and knocking on the major league team's door. This is one of the most common cheating practices and certainly is the easiest to get away with since OOTP doesn't yet document rating bumps in the player development page (HINT, HINT

).

-Commishes that prey on newbies and take advantage of their lack of knowledge. I term this as cheating since the commish knows when a new owner joins, their knowledge level, and can control the negotiations with a degree of intimidation.

-Commishes that change their lineup in the middle of the sim. If their star SS goes down during a sim, some commishes will make changes to their lineup right away and not wait until after the sim. This is unfair since all other owners obviously have to wait until after the sim to make their changes.

-Some commishes have been known to play some of their team's crucial game. If your commish is taking over an hour to complete a regular 2 week sim, I would be suspicious.

-Since the commish has the power to edit everything, you may want to watch his player's contracts. It's extremely easy to edit your $10 million player down to $8 million.

-A commish may break his own league rules. For example if the league limits extension offers to a maximum of 3, some commishes may propose many more offers to ensure he signs the player to the most affordably contract possible. This is extremely difficult to monitor especially if he is continually unzipping the league file to attempt more offers.

Like all of these things, it is important to have a commish you trust. If you don't know and can't trust him, then you will always be suspicious. The point of any online league is to have fun and be competitive. If you are continually making sound moves and your team is spinning it's wheels and the commish's team is always winning the championship, it may be time to move on. I'm not saying the commish is always cheating in that case. He may not be but if you're not having fun in that league, why bother. You can always tell if a commish is in it for himself or takes pride in his league first. Talk to him often via AIM, ICQ, or email to see what kind of guy he is. In most cases you're going to be able to tell quickly if this is some young punk or someone that truly has a passion for his league. Hope this helps!!!

astatguy · 07-12-2003, 11:13 AM

I've never tried to hack an OOTP5 file, so I don't know how difficult it would be. Does anyone know if they are encrypted, or is it an easy hack? Please don't respond with answers about how to do it.

dougk62 · 07-12-2003, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Holz

As a commish in a league where I currently have a first-place team, I can tell you that oftentimes a commish will have a good team just because they are involved with the league on a day-to-day basis and will contribute exports on a regular basis. So just having a good team doesn't mean that person is cheating - make sure you see several of these types of things going on before you come to a conclusion about your commish.

We'll see about that come playoff time. I've heard that Calgary team is unstoppable in that league. Somethings got to be fishy if you find a way to cheat them out of a title.

84CubsFan · 07-12-2003, 11:21 AM

As suggested above, look for inconsistencies. Inconsistencies in the player history, league history, and the news page are sure signs of simming ahead.

bigphesta · 07-12-2003, 11:39 AM

Skuts hit it right on. Those are tell tale signs of a cheating commish. And if you even THINK your commish is cheating, simply leave the league. That's always the best thing to do.

And as far as the commish simming out his games, go back and look at the times for the box scores in Explorer. If every one of the commish's games has a long delay between that game and the other games, good chance something is up. Some commishes do sim day by day then look at their box scores for that day, so that's not unusual, I'm talking more about 13 games are all at 7:49, then 10 minutes later the commish's game for that day gets registered. Something is fishy with that. But if ALL the days games are simmed then 10 minutes later ALL of the next day's games are simmed, that's simply a commish going back and looking at the box scores between games. I see nothing wrong with this. (although in my league, I simlply click on the last day of the 10 day sim period and click "sim to this date" so that the actual simming takes minutes and is in an undisturbed block)

Oh, and Skuts, why IS IT that Milwaukee is always so good?

CDL Commish · 07-12-2003, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigphesta
Oh, and Skuts, why IS IT that Milwaukee is always so good?

Oh, yeah, we're great! My record this year is at least 14 games under .500. That after I've won 1 CDL championship in 19 seasons now. You might want to check on the other commish though. His Astros are always up to something sneaky!!

bigphesta · 07-12-2003, 12:11 PM

yeah and they're constantly 'rebuilding' yet keep winning. Hmmmmm.

Ragin Cajun · 07-12-2003, 01:02 PM

It goes back to a trust factor. Ask owners that have been in the league for a while. For myself, my league is in it's 9th season, and I just won the division for the 9th time. How many LCS wins? ONE. How many Series wins? NONE. I've had new guys question my overall success in the regular season and I tell them to talk to other owners. One of my league presidents is in my division...he definitely has a motive to "keep an eye on me". All my trades are subject to review by the league presidents (one AL and one NL)...in 9 years, there have been exactly ZERO overturned. So, as Skuts said; success has no real basis although it can be one flag but don't base all your accusations on that. Check the player development log for the league and the individual teams. Check to see what players a commish's team has lost to FA from not signing an extention. In my league, I had to trade away JJ Davis to the Yankees after three rejected proposals. If I was going to cheat, he would have been a player to do it on.

Again, it all comes back to trust. Should you keep an eye on your commish...hell yes. Nothing like the moral majority to keep you in line, even if you were ever tempted to cheat. But using my league as an example, if that was really an issue then I don't think the league would be going strong as we just finished our 9th season. There would be way to much turnover, the league would get a bad reputation (see all the posts about those kind of leagues on this forum...) and people would know to stay away from it.

So, don't begrudge a commish for being a dominant team. I have owners every week ask my advise on their team. They know that I review my league daily to keep on top of any and all issues, and that I may know their team better than they do.

Here are a few things I do, and other commish's do (in leagues that I am members of)...
1. Input your contract offers first for FA so you cannot be influenced by other bids. (FTP has helped this so you don't have to see the bid screen every time you import.)
2. Do not make any trade offers with a new person until at least 24 hours after you have introduced that person to the league as a whole. Gives your other vulture owners a chance to get first crack.
3. When simming, sim a whole day, whole week or to a certain date all at one time. Do NOT ever sim one game at a time. The time stamps on the box scores will help you, as an owner, track this. (see above post that discusses this more)
4. Have a league council (or league officers) that can review any and all moves by the commissioner. This does not have to entail daily decisions, but moreso trades and things inpacting the commish's team.
5. Encourage your owners to keep tabs on you. Be open and honest in what you are doing and why. Anytime I make a decision, I give my reasoning so everyone gets to know how I think.

Just a few guidelines of many...

treedom · 07-12-2003, 01:13 PM

if the commish is running the braves, that's a major red flag...

A.J. Holz · 07-12-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dougk62
We'll see about that come playoff time. I've heard that Calgary team is unstoppable in that league. Somethings got to be fishy if you find a way to cheat them out of a title.

I'm not sure if you saw the latest sim Doug, but it looks like Melendrez, Masakado, and Durso might all be poised for season-ending injuries!

RayofHope · 07-12-2003, 02:01 PM

People that do this are just pathetic.

It's like the people that refuse to turn up the difficulty on their favorite video game because they like to sit back and whoop up on the AI at the easiest level. It's assinine.

I had a friend who to used to have a really old Dr J one on one hoops game, where you could play Dr J v Bird. He'd set the thing on the easiest setting and whoop Bird like 100-6. I never understood it. Sat back and laughed the entire game, then bragged about how much he won by. Huh?

Where's the challenge? If you have to do this sorta crap, you must REALLY suck.

Maybe they feel the challenge is in "fleecing their owners" - but it's still pathetic and narcissistic (is that even a word?).

Tito · 07-12-2003, 02:09 PM

Thanks for taking the time to reply, fellas. I got some insight on things to look out for.

It's funny that as I was reading CDL Commish's post, I was thinking "hey, so and so Commish did this in a league I was in."

I definitely agree that the Commish knows their league as a whole better than anyone else and thus has a well-deserved advantage. I've been in a couple of leagues with shady commish's, so I was looking for the warning signs before I waste hundreds of hours on a league that's not really legit.

thanks again, and keep em coming.

LivnLegend · 07-12-2003, 02:10 PM

As the Commissioner of the USBA, I do not initiate trade talks for my team and I do not counter-offer when deals are offered to me by other teams. I just say "yes" or "no".
It takes away any perception that I am trying to work over another team owner or grind out a deal that would favor me.

During off season free agency, I make no offers during the first signing period.

TC Dale · 07-12-2003, 02:15 PM

I can verify that he does that in the Maelstrom as well.

LivnLegend · 07-12-2003, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TC Dale
I can verify that he does that in the Maelstrom as well.

Geez, in a league where Barry Zito has been traded 8 times and Vlad Guerrero 12 times, just because I hold onto my players does not make me an outcast!

ClassicMLB · 07-12-2003, 03:35 PM

What I do to take the trading aspect further to help build trust with owners is that certain players are just off limits to me as the Commish. I run an 80s Historical League currently in the 1986 season and as much as I wanted to trade for Roger Clemens when he went on the block, I just stayed out of it and let the other owners battle. You just need to stay away from the absolute best players and if you do trade for one then you need to make an offer that is almost unfair to yourself.

I think being a trusted Commish is earned everyday and lost in an instant. And like I always tell my owners it is "League First, Team Second."

CommishJoe · 07-12-2003, 05:35 PM

I love to trade and negotiate, so I dont take any of that stuff away from myself. It's my favorite part of an on-line league, and would be removing most of the fun for myself. However, I hardly sim anymore. We have 3 co-commishes(including me) that share the simming duty.

With 3 people with simming duties, it ensures that the person simming the World Series doesn't have a team there.

However, most of us in the TLB have been together for a very long time (over to 3 years now starting with High Heat 1999) so the trust factor is already there. They've watched my Yankees blow enough important games to know I'm not cheating

TC Dale · 07-12-2003, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LivnLegend
Geez, in a league where Barry Zito has been traded 8 times and Vlad Guerrero 12 times, just because I hold onto my players does not make me an outcast!

Well I did not want it to seem like I was saying you were bad, LL, when in fact I was backing up your statement that you are always above board in your actions when it comes to leagues.

Now Off Topic is a whole another thread.

I don't have the time to type all that.

07-12-2003, 10:37 AM	#1
Tito Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 149	Is Your Commish is Cheating? -- The Red Flags Hey guys, I've been playing for a couple of years and it seems that the Commish almost always 1) makes the playoffs or 2) wins the W.S. Who's a great GM and who is manipulating the data? I'd like to know what some of the red flags are, nuances that can be detected that would let someone know that something is fishy with the league. I saw a post where a player's accomplishments (i.e. won W.S.) were listed 3 times at the bottom of the page. In another post, a team has 18 injuries and others have 0 or 1. Things like that. I was once in a league where we needed a temporary Commish and this guy stepped in and went power-hungry. He drafted a 4.0 kid who was a D defensively and had awful speed. By next sim he was 5.0, B defensively and the second coming of Rickey Henderson! Now that one was obvious--I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.

07-12-2003, 11:01 AM	#2
A.J. Holz All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 650	Accomplishments listed multiple times in the player history can be a sure sign that the commish is simming ahead, then rolling back the sim if things didn't go his way. See this thread for some good input on this type of situation. http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...threadid=39247 As a commish in a league where I currently have a first-place team, I can tell you that oftentimes a commish will have a good team just because they are involved with the league on a day-to-day basis and will contribute exports on a regular basis. So just having a good team doesn't mean that person is cheating - make sure you see several of these types of things going on before you come to a conclusion about your commish. __________________ NABA - Tijuana Toros / Commish ORB - Oakland Athletics (former owner) MBBA - Seattle Storm JOBL - Grand Forks Varmints (former owner) FIBB - Chicago Fire TMBU - Tulsa Tomcats (former owner) ACL - Oakland A's (former owner) ACB - Rockville Superbas

07-12-2003, 11:09 AM	#3
CDL Commish Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 140	There are many ways to cheat as a commissioner but there are certainly things that are the most obvious and the most attempted scams. Just a couple of the most popular... -Players getting a talent bump and it not showing up on the player development page. I'm not just referring to the common ones of avoiding hits, getting hits, hitting HRs, etc, but also stealing ability, injury ratings, clutch performance, stamina ratings, etc. -Players who just appear on a new team without any documented transactions in either the player history or the transaction news page. -Players getting released from one team and then signed for a cheap contract to the commish's team. -Players getting rating bumps at an unnatural pace. For example, if you have a great SP prospect who has a 0 ERA rating it wouldn't be normal to see that guy at AAA with an 8 rating within a season. A player like this will take at the very least 4 minor league seasons before he will be in AAA and knocking on the major league team's door. This is one of the most common cheating practices and certainly is the easiest to get away with since OOTP doesn't yet document rating bumps in the player development page (HINT, HINT ). -Commishes that prey on newbies and take advantage of their lack of knowledge. I term this as cheating since the commish knows when a new owner joins, their knowledge level, and can control the negotiations with a degree of intimidation. -Commishes that change their lineup in the middle of the sim. If their star SS goes down during a sim, some commishes will make changes to their lineup right away and not wait until after the sim. This is unfair since all other owners obviously have to wait until after the sim to make their changes. -Some commishes have been known to play some of their team's crucial game. If your commish is taking over an hour to complete a regular 2 week sim, I would be suspicious. -Since the commish has the power to edit everything, you may want to watch his player's contracts. It's extremely easy to edit your $10 million player down to $8 million. -A commish may break his own league rules. For example if the league limits extension offers to a maximum of 3, some commishes may propose many more offers to ensure he signs the player to the most affordably contract possible. This is extremely difficult to monitor especially if he is continually unzipping the league file to attempt more offers. Like all of these things, it is important to have a commish you trust. If you don't know and can't trust him, then you will always be suspicious. The point of any online league is to have fun and be competitive. If you are continually making sound moves and your team is spinning it's wheels and the commish's team is always winning the championship, it may be time to move on. I'm not saying the commish is always cheating in that case. He may not be but if you're not having fun in that league, why bother. You can always tell if a commish is in it for himself or takes pride in his league first. Talk to him often via AIM, ICQ, or email to see what kind of guy he is. In most cases you're going to be able to tell quickly if this is some young punk or someone that truly has a passion for his league. Hope this helps!!! __________________ Matt Skutley CDL Commish \| Brewers GM TBA!!!!!!\| Braves GM

07-12-2003, 11:13 AM	#4
astatguy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 42	Other than re-simming I've never tried to hack an OOTP5 file, so I don't know how difficult it would be. Does anyone know if they are encrypted, or is it an easy hack? Please don't respond with answers about how to do it. __________________ Always go to other peoples' funerals, otherwise they won't come to yours. - Yogi Berra NARBL - Atlanta Braves SO49 - Houston Colt 45's MLBC - Milwaukee Braves

07-12-2003, 01:02 PM	#10
Ragin Cajun All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Atascosita, TX Posts: 1,173	It goes back to a trust factor. Ask owners that have been in the league for a while. For myself, my league is in it's 9th season, and I just won the division for the 9th time. How many LCS wins? ONE. How many Series wins? NONE. I've had new guys question my overall success in the regular season and I tell them to talk to other owners. One of my league presidents is in my division...he definitely has a motive to "keep an eye on me". All my trades are subject to review by the league presidents (one AL and one NL)...in 9 years, there have been exactly ZERO overturned. So, as Skuts said; success has no real basis although it can be one flag but don't base all your accusations on that. Check the player development log for the league and the individual teams. Check to see what players a commish's team has lost to FA from not signing an extention. In my league, I had to trade away JJ Davis to the Yankees after three rejected proposals. If I was going to cheat, he would have been a player to do it on. Again, it all comes back to trust. Should you keep an eye on your commish...hell yes. Nothing like the moral majority to keep you in line, even if you were ever tempted to cheat. But using my league as an example, if that was really an issue then I don't think the league would be going strong as we just finished our 9th season. There would be way to much turnover, the league would get a bad reputation (see all the posts about those kind of leagues on this forum...) and people would know to stay away from it. So, don't begrudge a commish for being a dominant team. I have owners every week ask my advise on their team. They know that I review my league daily to keep on top of any and all issues, and that I may know their team better than they do. Here are a few things I do, and other commish's do (in leagues that I am members of)... 1. Input your contract offers first for FA so you cannot be influenced by other bids. (FTP has helped this so you don't have to see the bid screen every time you import.) 2. Do not make any trade offers with a new person until at least 24 hours after you have introduced that person to the league as a whole. Gives your other vulture owners a chance to get first crack. 3. When simming, sim a whole day, whole week or to a certain date all at one time. Do NOT ever sim one game at a time. The time stamps on the box scores will help you, as an owner, track this. (see above post that discusses this more) 4. Have a league council (or league officers) that can review any and all moves by the commissioner. This does not have to entail daily decisions, but moreso trades and things inpacting the commish's team. 5. Encourage your owners to keep tabs on you. Be open and honest in what you are doing and why. Anytime I make a decision, I give my reasoning so everyone gets to know how I think. Just a few guidelines of many... __________________ Former NBSL Commissioner: 16 years Former Online League Owner; six time champion

07-12-2003, 11:21 AM	#6
84CubsFan Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 376	As suggested above, look for inconsistencies. Inconsistencies in the player history, league history, and the news page are sure signs of simming ahead.

07-12-2003, 11:39 AM	#7
bigphesta Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,366	Skuts hit it right on. Those are tell tale signs of a cheating commish. And if you even THINK your commish is cheating, simply leave the league. That's always the best thing to do. And as far as the commish simming out his games, go back and look at the times for the box scores in Explorer. If every one of the commish's games has a long delay between that game and the other games, good chance something is up. Some commishes do sim day by day then look at their box scores for that day, so that's not unusual, I'm talking more about 13 games are all at 7:49, then 10 minutes later the commish's game for that day gets registered. Something is fishy with that. But if ALL the days games are simmed then 10 minutes later ALL of the next day's games are simmed, that's simply a commish going back and looking at the box scores between games. I see nothing wrong with this. (although in my league, I simlply click on the last day of the 10 day sim period and click "sim to this date" so that the actual simming takes minutes and is in an undisturbed block) Oh, and Skuts, why IS IT that Milwaukee is always so good?

07-12-2003, 12:11 PM	#9
bigphesta Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,366	yeah and they're constantly 'rebuilding' yet keep winning. Hmmmmm.

07-12-2003, 01:13 PM	#11
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	if the commish is running the braves, that's a major red flag... __________________ A rake and a roustabout.

07-12-2003, 02:01 PM	#13
RayofHope Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2003 Location: Centreville, VA Posts: 275	Never Understood This People that do this are just pathetic. It's like the people that refuse to turn up the difficulty on their favorite video game because they like to sit back and whoop up on the AI at the easiest level. It's assinine. I had a friend who to used to have a really old Dr J one on one hoops game, where you could play Dr J v Bird. He'd set the thing on the easiest setting and whoop Bird like 100-6. I never understood it. Sat back and laughed the entire game, then bragged about how much he won by. Huh? Where's the challenge? If you have to do this sorta crap, you must REALLY suck. Maybe they feel the challenge is in "fleecing their owners" - but it's still pathetic and narcissistic (is that even a word?).

07-12-2003, 02:09 PM	#14
Tito Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 149	Thanks for taking the time to reply, fellas. I got some insight on things to look out for. It's funny that as I was reading CDL Commish's post, I was thinking "hey, so and so Commish did this in a league I was in." I definitely agree that the Commish knows their league as a whole better than anyone else and thus has a well-deserved advantage. I've been in a couple of leagues with shady commish's, so I was looking for the warning signs before I waste hundreds of hours on a league that's not really legit. thanks again, and keep em coming.

07-12-2003, 02:10 PM	#15
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	As the Commissioner of the USBA, I do not initiate trade talks for my team and I do not counter-offer when deals are offered to me by other teams. I just say "yes" or "no". It takes away any perception that I am trying to work over another team owner or grind out a deal that would favor me. During off season free agency, I make no offers during the first signing period. __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

07-12-2003, 02:15 PM	#16
TC Dale Global Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,983	I can verify that he does that in the Maelstrom as well. __________________ ----------------------------------

07-12-2003, 03:35 PM	#18
ClassicMLB Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 137	What I do to take the trading aspect further to help build trust with owners is that certain players are just off limits to me as the Commish. I run an 80s Historical League currently in the 1986 season and as much as I wanted to trade for Roger Clemens when he went on the block, I just stayed out of it and let the other owners battle. You just need to stay away from the absolute best players and if you do trade for one then you need to make an offer that is almost unfair to yourself. I think being a trusted Commish is earned everyday and lost in an instant. And like I always tell my owners it is "League First, Team Second."

07-12-2003, 05:35 PM	#19
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	I love to trade and negotiate, so I dont take any of that stuff away from myself. It's my favorite part of an on-line league, and would be removing most of the fun for myself. However, I hardly sim anymore. We have 3 co-commishes(including me) that share the simming duty. With 3 people with simming duties, it ensures that the person simming the World Series doesn't have a team there. However, most of us in the TLB have been together for a very long time (over to 3 years now starting with High Heat 1999) so the trust factor is already there. They've watched my Yankees blow enough important games to know I'm not cheating __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.