Why are people always complaining about steals?

ClassicMLB · 06-09-2003, 03:41 PM

Why are people always complaining that OOTP5 has too many stolen bases? All you have to do is go into Team Strategy and lower the team's desire to steal.

People seem to think there should be a "fix" to lower steals but the problem is that for Historical Gamers that would seriously hurt replay of our leagues since there was a time before the home run steroid monsters of today when the game was played with TALENT and BRAINS! A time when stealing a base or advancing a runner actually meant something.

Now all you see is one corked bat using cheater or one steriod freak after another trying to hit a grand slam with nobody on base! I think baseball should have stopped in 1994 and never started again. What we have now is a disgrace to the history of the game.

I say leave the game alone because it works great as it is!!!

darrylr · 06-09-2003, 03:43 PM

People just complain about everything for something to do. I think it is human nature. Any game I have ever played where there was a good online forum all people do is complain whenever something changes or they think something should change. Like someone said in another post - I hope that most developers who actually read boards like this have thick skin. It is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone. I just hope all the complaining doesn't lead Markus to stop reading posts here.

-Darryl

Gastric ReFlux · 06-09-2003, 03:43 PM

Actually, I think most people complain that it's impossible to get enough steals to simulate the early years and the 1980s.

spleen1015 · 06-09-2003, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gastric ReFlux
Actually, I think most people complain that it's impossible to get enough steals to simulate the early years and the 1980s.

Yes, this is what I think the complaint is. I remember there being talk about not being able to anyone to steal 100 bases.

Anonymous Ghost · 06-09-2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Now all you see is one corked bat using cheater or one steriod freak after another trying to hit a grand slam with nobody on base! I think baseball should have stopped in 1994 and never started again. What we have now is a disgrace to the history of the game.

Have you ever read/heard about the 1930s? The R/G of that era were comparable to the 1990s (without a DH, BTW) and the steal "died" during that time too (to be revitalized by Wills in the 1960s). Aside from a glut of comparatively mediocre hitters being in the HOF from the era, baseball suffered no lasting injury from that time.

Gastric ReFlux · 06-09-2003, 03:51 PM

If you want to see some scary numbers from the 1930s, check out the pitching staffs for the Philadelphia Phillies.

Qrusher14242 · 06-09-2003, 04:07 PM

hmm, i dont recall anyone complaining about too many steals. Most historical simmers dont like how you cant get more than 60 or so sb's in a given year. Adding SB's to the league totals would please everyone.

JML · 06-09-2003, 04:12 PM

I vote for "People think there aren't enough steals" too.

Since SB totals have varied so much throughout the history of the game, I think adding it to the league totals would be the best option, or at least adding it to the era settings.

Gastric ReFlux · 06-09-2003, 04:12 PM

I don't think adding SBs to the league totals screen is the answer. The league totals govern the pitcher versus hitter matchup, not the baserunning.

spleen1015 · 06-09-2003, 04:13 PM

As JML said, I think an Era setting would be the better option.

Henry · 06-09-2003, 06:46 PM

Yes, no, maybe

First of all, the complaint is that you can't get much above 65 steals no matter what. Well, ok... I managed to do it, but I loaded players up to hit over .400, gave them A-A running stealing ratings, and gave them 10+ rating in drawing walks... then I got about 80.

I do not, however, think the Era settings are the place to do this - mainly becasue it would upset the balance of the pitcher-batter confrontation AND it would effect "everyone".

All that is needed (I think) to fix this to everyone's satisfaction is to allow the player's "steal rating" to be greater than "10"... allow it to be 12, 14, 16, whatever to give the "once in a decade" player who can accumulate maybe 100 steals.

Night2000 · 06-09-2003, 07:21 PM

I agree with Henry.

Raise the players steal rating higher then 10. Or have an A+ or AA rating for exceptional stealers. Where they will have a higher success in stealing, and getting a good jump on the ball.

Dazooz · 06-09-2003, 08:06 PM

I like that solution as well Henry. It just seems there are too many average armed catchers catching average holding runners pitchers (read C arm C hold runner) throwing out too high of a percentage of great steal readers and speedsters (read A A or A B or B A ratings).

vtbub · 06-09-2003, 08:20 PM

Didn't Strat have an AA steal rating?

JML · 06-09-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vtbub
Didn't Strat have an AA steal rating?

Yes, and a AAA as well. The tabletop version did, anyway.

Ahhh, good old AAA stealing Vince Coleman...

I think he was the only one in the whole 1986 set with AAA.

Joshv02 · 06-09-2003, 08:52 PM

I think a point of AG's post (and i'm probably transfering, here) is that in times of offensive prowess, steals die.

This makes sense: the value of an out is too high to make the potential for a CS worth it, in many situtations. This means that SBs should be 'global' setting, but one that is not independant. Unlike power, etc., SBs are someone a player choses to try when given the opportunity. A rational player (or, more likely, a player who will be kept on the team of a rational GM) will not steal if their rate of sucess is below (in today's baseball) ~72%, and then they merely break even. A significant SB % would be >80, and not too many players can do that too often. As a point of reference, Vince Coleman clocked in at ~81% for his career, and the Elder Tim Raines at ~85%. This is good company, but rare air.

*edit: Kenny Lofton and Marquis Grisson are both at 79%, Biggio at 77%, but Tony Womac (who can barely get on base enough to steal) is up in the clouds at 85%ish.

ClassicMLB · 06-09-2003, 11:37 PM

I like the idea of a global setting for steals. Could work just like it does with Homeruns, etc in the League Setup page where you edit the overall league information and what type of ERA you play in, etc. Just include stolen bases along with the other stats. Of course as someone mentioned it would affect all players and you might end up having "Rob Deer Types" stealing 20+ bases so perhaps increasing the ratings beyond A to AA, etc or making it a "number rating" like with homeruns, etc.

Lots of great ideas! This has been a productive thread!

rogmax11 · 06-10-2003, 12:49 PM

Question: what has been the group experience in terms of total SB vs historical totals? If the total number is proximate to the historical total, but the league leaders are off, then we have a global setting issue. Im not home, and cant look back to check my own replays, but I will later. In the meantime, any reportage?

Henry · 06-10-2003, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogmax11
Question: what has been the group experience in terms of total SB vs historical totals? If the total number is proximate to the historical total, but the league leaders are off, then we have a global setting issue. Im not home, and cant look back to check my own replays, but I will later. In the meantime, any reportage?

My experience has been that the league totals are ok - but the leaders cannot accumulate staels above 60 for the most part - that is precisely why I think it's NOT a global issue. Allowing the "leaders" steal ratings to surpass a "10" would resolve the issue.

Also, a point that was missed - the Era setting are designed to describe the pitcher-batter relationship. Steals have to be addressed elsewhere.

Crapshoot · 06-10-2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ClassicMLB

People seem to think there should be a "fix" to lower steals but the problem is that for Historical Gamers that would seriously hurt replay of our leagues since there was a time before the home run steroid monsters of today when the game was played with TALENT and BRAINS! A time when stealing a base or advancing a runner actually meant something.

Now all you see is one corked bat using cheater or one steriod freak after another trying to hit a grand slam with nobody on base! I think baseball should have stopped in 1994 and never started again. What we have now is a disgrace to the history of the game.

I say leave the game alone because it works great as it is!!!

If you actually believe those last 3 paragraphs, you know far less about baseball then you think you do.

06-09-2003, 03:41 PM	#1
ClassicMLB Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 137	Why are people always complaining about steals? Why are people always complaining that OOTP5 has too many stolen bases? All you have to do is go into Team Strategy and lower the team's desire to steal. People seem to think there should be a "fix" to lower steals but the problem is that for Historical Gamers that would seriously hurt replay of our leagues since there was a time before the home run steroid monsters of today when the game was played with TALENT and BRAINS! A time when stealing a base or advancing a runner actually meant something. Now all you see is one corked bat using cheater or one steriod freak after another trying to hit a grand slam with nobody on base! I think baseball should have stopped in 1994 and never started again. What we have now is a disgrace to the history of the game. I say leave the game alone because it works great as it is!!!

06-09-2003, 07:21 PM	#12
Night2000 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Monroe, NJ Posts: 716	I agree with Henry. Raise the players steal rating higher then 10. Or have an A+ or AA rating for exceptional stealers. Where they will have a higher success in stealing, and getting a good jump on the ball. __________________ http://night2000.blogspot.com/ This post has the Al Bundy and Homer Simpson stamp of approval!

06-09-2003, 08:52 PM	#16
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082	I think a point of AG's post (and i'm probably transfering, here) is that in times of offensive prowess, steals die. This makes sense: the value of an out is too high to make the potential for a CS worth it, in many situtations. This means that SBs should be 'global' setting, but one that is not independant. Unlike power, etc., SBs are someone a player choses to try when given the opportunity. A rational player (or, more likely, a player who will be kept on the team of a rational GM) will not steal if their rate of sucess is below (in today's baseball) ~72%, and then they merely break even. A significant SB % would be >80, and not too many players can do that too often. As a point of reference, Vince Coleman clocked in at ~81% for his career, and the Elder Tim Raines at ~85%. This is good company, but rare air. edit: Kenny Lofton and Marquis Grisson are both at 79%, Biggio at 77%, but Tony Womac (who can barely get on base enough to steal) is up in the clouds at 85%ish. __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP* Last edited by Joshv02; 06-09-2003 at 08:58 PM.

06-09-2003, 11:37 PM	#17
ClassicMLB Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 137	I like the idea of a global setting for steals. Could work just like it does with Homeruns, etc in the League Setup page where you edit the overall league information and what type of ERA you play in, etc. Just include stolen bases along with the other stats. Of course as someone mentioned it would affect all players and you might end up having "Rob Deer Types" stealing 20+ bases so perhaps increasing the ratings beyond A to AA, etc or making it a "number rating" like with homeruns, etc. Lots of great ideas! This has been a productive thread! Last edited by ClassicMLB; 06-09-2003 at 11:40 PM.

06-09-2003, 03:43 PM	#2
darrylr Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 89	People just complain about everything for something to do. I think it is human nature. Any game I have ever played where there was a good online forum all people do is complain whenever something changes or they think something should change. Like someone said in another post - I hope that most developers who actually read boards like this have thick skin. It is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone. I just hope all the complaining doesn't lead Markus to stop reading posts here. -Darryl

06-09-2003, 03:43 PM	#3
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Actually, I think most people complain that it's impossible to get enough steals to simulate the early years and the 1980s.

06-09-2003, 03:51 PM	#6
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	If you want to see some scary numbers from the 1930s, check out the pitching staffs for the Philadelphia Phillies.

06-09-2003, 04:07 PM	#7
Qrusher14242 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CA Posts: 1,253	hmm, i dont recall anyone complaining about too many steals. Most historical simmers dont like how you cant get more than 60 or so sb's in a given year. Adding SB's to the league totals would please everyone.

06-09-2003, 04:12 PM	#8
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	I vote for "People think there aren't enough steals" too. Since SB totals have varied so much throughout the history of the game, I think adding it to the league totals would be the best option, or at least adding it to the era settings.

06-09-2003, 04:13 PM	#10
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,008	As JML said, I think an Era setting would be the better option.

06-09-2003, 06:46 PM	#11
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Yes, no, maybe First of all, the complaint is that you can't get much above 65 steals no matter what. Well, ok... I managed to do it, but I loaded players up to hit over .400, gave them A-A running stealing ratings, and gave them 10+ rating in drawing walks... then I got about 80. I do not, however, think the Era settings are the place to do this - mainly becasue it would upset the balance of the pitcher-batter confrontation AND it would effect "everyone". All that is needed (I think) to fix this to everyone's satisfaction is to allow the player's "steal rating" to be greater than "10"... allow it to be 12, 14, 16, whatever to give the "once in a decade" player who can accumulate maybe 100 steals.

06-09-2003, 08:06 PM	#13
Dazooz Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 193	I like that solution as well Henry. It just seems there are too many average armed catchers catching average holding runners pitchers (read C arm C hold runner) throwing out too high of a percentage of great steal readers and speedsters (read A A or A B or B A ratings).

06-09-2003, 08:20 PM	#14
vtbub Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Burlington, VT Posts: 143	Didn't Strat have an AA steal rating?

06-10-2003, 12:49 PM	#18
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	Question: what has been the group experience in terms of total SB vs historical totals? If the total number is proximate to the historical total, but the league leaders are off, then we have a global setting issue. Im not home, and cant look back to check my own replays, but I will later. In the meantime, any reportage?