Not Sure What To Call This Thread

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Hello! It's been quite some time since I've been around these neck of the woods, sometime around 2022 I think. Glad to see this Forum is still here with contributors still kicking around things to keep Title Bout 2.5 active. Still love this game! Good to see there are others still here from years back and maybe newer members I don't know.

I tried here and there over the years to keep active here, but life (work / family) just kept getting most of my time. The last three years had been total crazy with work! Well I'm done with that! Retired this past January 23rd!! Had turned 65 last year, got 30 years in complete with my company back in January and decided it was enough! Crazing start to the retirement though. About a week later I went in for open heart surgery to get a new Aortic Valve put it! Great start to retirement, NOT. But doing very well. Between the new valve and taking up swimming as part of my recovery process I feel physically better I think then I've had in some time!

Well enough of that. One of the things I wanted very much to do now with the whole lot of extra free time is get back to this wonderful hobby and game and sport of boxing! Anyone here who knows me, will know I really love the history of old time heavyweight boxing. Did a lot of researching and contributing heavyweights to TB. Well I want to do more. Over the past years I've put together quite a collection of Ring magazines and Boxing Newspapers. The Rings I have complete back to 1939 and am working on 1938. Been skimming through them really enjoying reading about the old fighters especially. Starting with 1938, I want to go through a study of sorts of the heavyweights from Joe Louis championship times up through the Ali years. In the past I took some stabs at looking at heavyweights from back in the 30's - 40s using the Ring as sort of a guide looking up fighters. Well found I would quickly get bogged down trying to look up articles in Ring about so many Tom, Dick and Harry fighters and then going through on line newspaper articles to try and found information about them. Was taking a long time to hunt through a small number of boxers!!

So going to take a different approach. With the help of the Ring ratings that are in the magazines along with the NBA Quarterly rankings on BoxRec, I'm going to focus on those fighters that appear in those rankings. Many of course would have already been rated in TB by the many contributors over the years, but, what I'm seeing is BoxRec has greatly expanding much information on many of these fighters from when they were first looked at for TB. At least that's what I'm seeing with the copies of rated fighters I have in my data base for TB2.5. I like to look through old on line newspapers to see what else can be found about these heavyweights. There is a LOT of great information to find.

Using the Ring monthly top 10 ratings I have along with the NBA ratings I'll focus on those fighters as my base line to look at the chronological progression of heavyweight boxing from the early time of Louis' reign on through the years. Along the way I hope I can share with you all some worthwhile new information on some of these fighters along with maybe some updated ratings for them that maybe you'd appreciate. The Online newspapers and Ring's I'm seeing as great sources of new photos of fighters. I also like to look at the boxing venues. Hope I can find some new insite into old boxing venues where these fighters battled to help expand this I still feel great game of TB2.5.

By the title I put in, I thought and thought about what to call this thread and just never came up with anything I felt worth while or attention catching, so.... I didn't want to just re-bucket this into my old HW Forum from years past. Well hope you'll all see something worth your while to check in time to time......
Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

And yes did have a first fighter to post.....

This French heavyweight from the 20s and 30s I just happened across when starting to look at the first fighter in the Ring ratings I was looking at the beginning of 1938. I ended deviating off that fighter and looking into this one. That's what I hope will be as I look at the main guys who showed up in ratings, it will lead me to other worthwhile researches and ratings.

Griselle is an example of how the BoxRec database has expanded. When Mark Moe did the rating I had back I'm not sure when, he noted in Griselle's biography his record and something like only 11-17!

Maurice Griselle - HW France
Career Record: W61(KO 36) / L41(KO 11) / D7

TITLES:
Federation Francaise de Boxe French Heavyweight

Original Rating by: Mark Moe, mark42661

Unknown information has been left blank.
Wiki page in BoxRec notes Griselle's died 1983-10-24 at age 75.
DOB estimated then in 1908.

Lost a 15 round decision to Pierre Charles in July 1931 for the the EBU European Heavyweight Title.

[Cap]

Hey, welcome back! Your contributions are always appreciated.

Nice to see you've finally joined the Golden Age Retirement Club.

Cap

[Waltercito]

Welcome back, Rocco! Always loved your creations!

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Thank you Cap and Walt for the welcome backs!
Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Andre Lenglet - HW France

Career Record: W37(KO 22) / L16(KO 0) / D6

TITLES:
Federation Francaise de Boxe French Heavyweight

Unknown information has been left blank.
DOB has been estimated.

Manager Bertys Perry. Found this info in some 1972 newspapers.

On Thu, Nov 25, 1937, Andre Lenglet stopped Al McCoy at 2:57 of the 2nd round when after Lenglet dropped McCoy three times in the 2nd round, Referee Tommy Sullivan stopped the fight declaring Lenglet TKO winner. This fight helped elevate Lenglet to 8th rank heavyweight contender announced Dec 19th, 1937 in the National Boxing Association's Quarterly Ratings. The February 1938 Ring Magazine in their Monthly ratings ending the month period to Dec 12, 1937 placed Lenglet at their Number 10 heavyweight contender behind champion Joe Louis. It would be the highest ranking for Lenglet in Ring and the NBA Ratings. The 1937 Annual Ring Ratings in that same Feb 1938 had Lenglet in the first group of 5 contenders after the top 12 listed by Ring for the whole of 1937.

[IceTea]

Welcome back. I'm glad to hear that you're doing better. Keep punching and ducking.

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Appreciate the welcome back!! Yes, doing great right now. Hope that continues on for a long while!
Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Been working on researching through the newspapers some other fighters linked to Andre Lenglet and his fight in November 1937 with Al McCoy. Came across this info thought you might enjoy to add to your collections of Venues.
HAPPY NEW YEAR 2026 soon!
Riding Hall
Fort Ethan Allen, Vermont
223 Ethan Allen Avenue, USA
Site Rating 1
Seating Capacity 800
Website: www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=104074
Fort Ethan Allen in Vermont. The Music Center seen as in current photos from the Website included was built in 1895 as Riding Hall. Various boxing matches were stage here as found in some old 1930's newspapers.

Tue, Oct 29, 1935, The Burlington Free Press, Vermont - Account of some boxing matches held at Riding Hall notes that "over 800 fight fans, taxing the seating capacity of the Post riding hall at Fort Ethan Allen".

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Wow.....few more hours left to 2025!! Gosh this year has blown by!!
Happy New Year a few hours early everyone!

I mentioned in the previous post I'm researching through some other fighters in the card that Andre Lenglet fought Al McCoy to earn his way briefly as it was into Ring Magazine's top 10 rankings in very early 1938. Looking at this fight card, I've come across a couple interesting things. Directly in this fight card, one match up is a Jim Howell who BoxRec had a 7-8-1 at the time going up against a Babe Beattie, 3-2-0. Nothing much to look at would think.

Well I first start looking into newpaper records for Babe Beattie. BoxRec shows him fighting once in 1932 then not again till meeting Bill Ferguson from Portland, Maine in February 1937. Well my immediate curiosity was what as the deal with Beattie between 1932 and 1937. Well I was having some difficulty finding Babe Beattie mentioned in early 1937 and specifically against Ferguson at first. What I have discovered I believe is BoxRec had two different records for this Babe Beattie. One with the Beattie spelling, a heApr 12, 1935avyweight with an overall 8-9-0 record. The second is a Babe Beatty, which BoxRec lists him as a welterweight with only 3 fights, all in 1936 and all against a Hub Parker. Some further looking through newspaper accounts appears to show that these are the same fighter going by Babe Beatty earlier in his career as a light heavyweight then I'm believing at least in the papers they started spelling him as Beattie, which I saw when first looking for the Jim Howell fight. While looking through this time period, I stumbled on these two newspaper articles for a Babe Beatty fighting a guy named Jumbo Gauvin. Right off I don't remember how I found these, but i lead me into another maze. Looked up this Jumbo Gauvin and BoxRec shows only 2 fights, one in 1936 and one in 1941. But, here is where he fought Mr. Babe Beatty...

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Well, I got me curiosity up quick about this Jumbo Gauvin. A guy out of Vermont. I've started researching him and I'm finding quite a bit of a boxing record for him in the newspapers. So I want to complete through a rating for this guy which I'll base on what I find in the newspapers, not what BoxRec has. Don't have rating file yet for him, but here is what I've unearthed so far along with a photo I did fight of him.

If you pull my fighter photos you'll see I reference the paper source I found it. If it don't have any and just their name its from BoxRec.


TITLES:
Heavyweight Champion of Vermont

Unknown information has been left blank

Real Name appears to be Ernest Gauvin.

The only two fights listed in BoxRec for Gauvin is Oct 1936 2nd round KO loss to an Oliver Shanks and then In January 1941a 2nd round RTD to a Bat Mazzolla. Per BoxRec this was for the Vermont State Heavyweight title.

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Stream lining these posts removing all the bio info I end up putting in the fighters file. shorten the length of his thread that I felt was getting TO LONG for anyone to delve through!

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Found some real nice information and Photos on the Burlington Memorial Auditorium where the fight between Jumbo Gauvin and Bat Mazzolla was fought.

Burlington Memorial Auditorium
Burlington, Vermont
Corner of Main and S Union Streets
USA
Historical
A couple websites are listed
Rating 1
Seating Capacity 2500 though believe for boxing if you look at the inside view photo it would be less with not as much seating on the floor?

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Stream lining these posts removing all the bio info I end up putting in the fighters file. shorten the length of his thread that I felt was getting TO LONG for anyone to delve through!

[Cap]

Re: Babe Beattie. I came across a Facebook image of a poster from October 1932. Beattie rendered hors de combat one Kid Demers of Sherbrooke, Que. Almost impossible to find info on these smalltown cards. especially ones during the Depression. Beattie was 165 pounds at the time. Suspect he had other bouts after this one and before 1937.

Cap

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Hey Cap! Thank you for that input. I'd not thought much about looking through Facebook for much info though I have come across a thing or two.

I'll check this out to see if I can find the page you describe. Would love to see that. Yes he started out and what I've found thus far as a light heavyweight but with his name spelled Beatty though it might be it just got spelled both ways in the press?

Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Around July/August 1936, reports were out that Jack Renault former Canadian Heavyweight was planning a comeback to his career that had ended in 1933. That planned comeback was being set up to take place against Jumbo Gauvin. How I found out about this researching more Gauvin. Saw Renault in my heavyweights TB data base. He was rated by the TBCB3 DB Team. Attached is an updated file for him. Did nothing with the ratings, only updated some Bio info that I found. Also found a pretty good photo of him I liked, so attached.

Jack Renault - HW Canada
Career Record: W80(KO 37) / L28(KO 2) / D2, NC-6

TITLES:
Canadian Heavyweight Title

Unknown information has been left blank.

BoxRec's Wki page on Renault shows he died 1967-07-28 at age 72. The actual Wikipedia page for Renault lists his date of birth as Jan 18, 1898. Birth name was Leonard Dumoulin.

Defeated Floyd Johnson, Fred Fulton, Al Benedict, Bob Roper Bartley Madden, Homer Smith, George Godfrey, Jack DeMave, Sully Montgomery, Arthur De Kuh, Young Bob Fitzsimmons, Babe Hunt, Harold Mays, and Add Warren.

Added website Link to BoxRec Wiki Page for some interesting info on Renault that is there.

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Originally Posted by Rocco Del Sesto

Hey Cap! Thank you for that input. I'd not thought much about looking through Facebook for much info though I have come across a thing or two.

I'll check this out to see if I can find the page you describe. Would love to see that. Yes he started out and what I've found thus far as a light heavyweight but with his name spelled Beatty though it might be it just got spelled both ways in the press?

Rocco

I looked on Facebook and found the site you mentioned Cap. Attached is the photo of Babe Beattie posted. In looking through some more newspapers researching Jumbo Gauvin during early months of 1937 with discussions of Gauvin fighting light heavyweight Babe Beatty. I came across of a full length photo of Babe Beatty and made an upper body shot of him for more face close up. I've attached these to compare these with the Bbe Beattie photo from the Facebook site and also a head shot that is now posted on BoxRec for Babe Beattie. Any similarities that would indicate Babe Beattie and Babe Beatty are in fact the same boxer? Still trying to figure this out. The two large standup photos, one labeled from the facebook site saying Beattie from 1930s and then the other that says Beatty I found in an April 1937 paper. Do looks like the same boxer. Think there is some issues not known why in publications his last name spelling change.

[Waltercito]

Happy New Year!


Beattie and Beatty are definitely the same guy if you ask me. Have you reported the issue to boxrec yet? If not, I can do it.

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Originally Posted by Waltercito

Happy New Year!


Beattie and Beatty are definitely the same guy if you ask me. Have you reported the issue to boxrec yet? If not, I can do it.

I had not tried contacting boxrec about this. If you've dealt with correspondence with them and would know how to present the info to them I would very much appreciate that! Any info off this thread please feel free to send to them assuming you need to send to them.

Happy New Years also!!

Rocco