Some Negro League Players with Low Ratings

[ereasoner]

Hello! This is my first post on here so hopefully I am not posting something super obvious that I should already know, but I searched a little and didn't see another thread on this specifically.

I am wondering if I am importing some Negro League players wrong? I am trying to create a league with all-time greats, with a focus on Negro League players, and am having issues. When I import Satchel Paige or Jackie Robinson, all is great...I also did some non-NeL like Griffey and those import great.

I tried importing Josh Gibson and he's a half-star with no power. Mule Suttles also half-star. Hilton Smith is a stud pitcher but sucks at batting. Elston Howard is 2.5-stars (low for him, in my opinion, but funny that he's higher than Gibson). Cool Papa Bell is half-star, Oscar Charleston half-star, etc.

For reference, I am in commissioner mode in 2024 real season. I import each of them in their third or fourth year.

Thank you very much for any help you can provide!!

[LansdowneSt]

The NeL player records in OOTP are incomplete and even if they were complete the data isn't likely to reflect what they would have done in the majors. I suggest getting the InteGREATed mod and importing the NeL players from that database into your game. The database uses Major League Equivalencies for the NeL stars. It can be used as the entire database for your game (there is an instruction manual that comes with it) or as just an alternative database you can navigate to in order to bring players in one-by-one as you choose.

Here is the forum post (best for Fast Spring)

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=357028

and it is also available via the Steam workshop.

[ereasoner]

Thank you very much!!

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

The NeL player records in OOTP are incomplete and even if they were complete the data isn't likely to reflect what they would have done in the majors. I suggest getting the InteGREATed mod and importing the NeL players from that database into your game. The database uses Major League Equivalencies for the NeL stars. It can be used as the entire database for your game (there is an instruction manual that comes with it) or as just an alternative database you can navigate to in order to bring players in one-by-one as you choose.

Here is the forum post (best for Fast Spring)

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=357028

and it is also available via the Steam workshop.

Got a question for you. If you install the integrated mod, can that database be used for random debut, instead of the db that comes with the game? Thanks.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Got a question for you. If you install the integrated mod, can that database be used for random debut, instead of the db that comes with the game? Thanks.

Yup, it can. Just navigate to it in the advanced screen as per our manual and toggle on Random debuts while in the advanced menu plus all your other preferred settings (from A/W, color barrier, recalc settings, etc.). The manual installs in a /documents folder via Steam and it in the zip file for FastSpringers. There is also a silvam14 compatible ballparks era file to install, uniforms for the added teams, home stadiums for the NeL added teams, etc.

There are three main things that will happen when using InteGREATed db, so it depends how you want to handle it.

1) if you start the RD before 1901, the team count is less (so default game players with RAH & MSAH on don't run out of players). For RD, this is only a note on Teams.csv structure.

2) In 1910, there is expansion and 4 NeL teams will appear. We pulled the 1961/1962 expansion teams forward in time to accommodate the influx of talent so have enough amateur draft rounds for 4 extra teams 1910 to 1961/62.

3) The NeL players use the MLEs so have stats that are based on what they would have done in the MLB per the research and calculations of Eric Chalek (his work is here: https://horsehidedragnet.wordpress.com/negro-leagues/ & this is an mlb.com article about his work: https://www.mlb.com/news/negro-leagu...-equivalencies). Jackie R has stats going back to 1945. Paige has stats for a full career. Use of our db ensures no duplicate Jackie coming in - we ensured there is only one.

Now, if you don't want to start a true InteGREATed mod RD game, you can always just treat the InteGREATed database as you might the Spritze database of years past where maybe you want to play a typical RD game and just decide "This is the year Josh Gibson comes in" (the manual will tell you the debut year we use for him and others) and direct import him by navigating to our modified historical.database.odb to import him into a given year's draft class.

Trust that makes sense but if I skipped something, let me know.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Yup, it can. Just navigate to it in the advanced screen as per our manual and toggle on Random debuts while in the advanced menu plus all your other preferred settings (from A/W, color barrier, recalc settings, etc.). The manual installs in a /documents folder via Steam and it in the zip file for FastSpringers. There is also a silvam14 compatible ballparks era file to install, uniforms for the added teams, home stadiums for the NeL added teams, etc.

There are three main things that will happen when using InteGREATed db, so it depends how you want to handle it.

1) if you start the RD before 1901, the team count is less (so default game players with RAH & MSAH on don't run out of players). For RD, this is only a note on Teams.csv structure.

2) In 1910, there is expansion and 4 NeL teams will appear. We pulled the 1961/1962 expansion teams forward in time to accommodate the influx of talent so have enough amateur draft rounds for 4 extra teams 1910 to 1961/62.

3) The NeL players use the MLEs so have stats that are based on what they would have done in the MLB per the research and calculations of Eric Chalek (his work is here: https://horsehidedragnet.wordpress.com/negro-leagues/ & this is an mlb.com article about his work: https://www.mlb.com/news/negro-leagu...-equivalencies). Jackie R has stats going back to 1945. Paige has stats for a full career. Use of our db ensures no duplicate Jackie coming in - we ensured there is only one.

Now, if you don't want to start a true InteGREATed mod RD game, you can always just treat the InteGREATed database as you might the Spritze database of years past where maybe you want to play a typical RD game and just decide "This is the year Josh Gibson comes in" (the manual will tell you the debut year we use for him and others) and direct import him by navigating to our modified historical.database.odb to import him into a given year's draft class.

Trust that makes sense but if I skipped something, let me know.

Wow did I screw things up trying to get that mod to work. I'm just not bright enough if it involves more than just hitting a button. Whatever I did made my Steam version completely unusable. I uninstalled and reinstalled 3 or 4 times, but something major is wrong.

Good thing is, the Fast Spring version is on sale for $9.99, so I just purchased the game again. Probably played $9.99 worth yesterday alone.

Do you think there's a chance that the mod gets incorporated into the OOTP26 release, so it's simply part of the game?

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Wow did I screw things up trying to get that mod to work. I'm just not bright enough if it involves more than just hitting a button. Whatever I did made my Steam version completely unusable. I uninstalled and reinstalled 3 or 4 times, but something major is wrong.

Good thing is, the Fast Spring version is on sale for $9.99, so I just purchased the game again. Probably played $9.99 worth yesterday alone.

Do you think there's a chance that the mod gets incorporated into the OOTP26 release, so it's simply part of the game?

What did it do that made it unusable? That is, how did the un-usability manifest? This is the first time this has been said. How were you trying to use it once you got it (run a full InteGREATed game or import individual players? Did you see the manual in the /documents folder?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

What did it do that made it unusable? That is, how did the un-usability manifest? This is the first time this has been said. How were you trying to use it once you got it (run a full InteGREATed game or import individual players? Did you see the manual in the /documents folder?

It's hard to even explain what I did. I did the whole steam workshop deal and I did the install. That's where I became lost. I had no idea where to find the manual. Like I said, I'm not real swift when it comes to installing things. I'm great with the facegen mod and the stadiums mod, because all that involves is downloading the mod and clicking install. When I start the game now it says something about facegen not being present, so it will be disabled. All my saved games were gone, so it told me to create a new game. Creating a game would cause the game to display some black box type deal on the screen. It would also tell me that my db may be currupt. I tried to change the db path, but I think whatever I did was a death blow.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by David Watts

It's hard to even explain what I did. I did the whole steam workshop deal and I did the install. That's where I became lost. I had no idea where to find the manual. Like I said, I'm not real swift when it comes to installing things. I'm great with the facegen mod and the stadiums mod, because all that involves is downloading the mod and clicking install. When I start the game now it says something about facegen not being present, so it will be disabled. All my saved games were gone, so it told me to create a new game. Creating a game would cause the game to display some black box type deal on the screen. It would also tell me that my db may be currupt. I tried to change the db path, but I think whatever I did was a death blow.

Good God. I'll take a look but that's the first report of that.

Let's just get you the database. Go here and download the files:

https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...Z-001.zip/file

When you unzip it, click through and there is a folder called "statsNeLMod". Don't worry about the other folders. Now go to the Settings of Fast Spring's OOTP main page. On the pop-up, go to Troubleshooting. Click the button for "Open folder with customizable data". Notice the folder called "stats". Drag the statsNeLMod folder and put it next to (but not in) the default OOTP "stats" folder.

Let's say you are in your RD and you want Josh Gibson to be in the draft class. You'd go to Free Agents in Commish mode, upper right, drop down, Import Historical player and it brings up the import menu. It asks you to select the historical.database.odb file you want to import from. It shows you the default one because it assume you want the one in "stats". Click the up button to go up the file tree a step and select the statsNeLMod folder. There is also a historical.database.odb file in there. Select that.

Now you are ready to import Josh. But you need his import code and debut year. So go back to the unzipped download and look at the /documents folder. There is a pdf manual. Go to page 16 and you see Josh debuts in 1930. For his import code use the list here:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...1&postcount=65

Of course, be sure to check the box on the import screen that you want him in the draft class otherwise he comes in, as any import does, as a free agent.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Good God. I'll take a look but that's the first report of that.

Let's just get you the database. Go here and download the files:

https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...Z-001.zip/file

When you unzip it, click through and there is a folder called "statsNeLMod". Don't worry about the other folders. Now go to the Settings of Fast Spring's OOTP main page. On the pop-up, go to Troubleshooting. Click the button for "Open folder with customizable data". Notice the folder called "stats". Drag the statsNeLMod folder and put it next to (but not in) the default OOTP "stats" folder.

Let's say you are in your RD and you want Josh Gibson to be in the draft class. You'd go to Free Agents in Commish mode, upper right, drop down, Import Historical player and it brings up the import menu. It asks you to select the historical.database.odb file you want to import from. It shows you the default one because it assume you want the one in "stats". Click the up button to go up the file tree a step and select the statsNeLMod folder. There is also a historical.database.odb file in there. Select that.

Now you are ready to import Josh. But you need his import code and debut year. So go back to the unzipped download and look at the /documents folder. There is a pdf manual. Go to page 16 and you see Josh debuts in 1930. For his import code use the list here:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...1&postcount=65

Of course, be sure to check the box on the import screen that you want him in the draft class otherwise he comes in, as any import does, as a free agent.

Okay, you inspired me to try it one more time. I reinstalled my steam version again. It would not work yesterday no matter what I tried. Today, it fired right up. I was then able to find the manual. The instructions were pretty straight forward and I think I have things working. Will let you know.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I now have 2 versions of OOTP on my computer.

[David Watts]

It's working. Just seen my first Negro League player in a random debut. Harry Buckner. Thank y'all for creating this.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

It's working. Just seen my first Negro League player in a random debut. Harry Buckner. Thank y'all for creating this.

Yes!!!

[LansdowneSt]

Hey there, action.

As another RD guy, you too can just treat the db as you would the old Spritze one for an RD game. Just need to drop the statsNeLMod folder next to the regular "stats" folder and navigate to it as the starting db in the advanced options when setting up an RD game. It's only 212 NeL stars atm but it's the players most have heard of. Enjoy! As you know, it took us a while to get the db up and running but it's a joy to have it

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Good God. I'll take a look but that's the first report of that.

Let's just get you the database. Go here and download the files:

https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...Z-001.zip/file

When you unzip it, click through and there is a folder called "statsNeLMod". Don't worry about the other folders. Now go to the Settings of Fast Spring's OOTP main page. On the pop-up, go to Troubleshooting. Click the button for "Open folder with customizable data". Notice the folder called "stats". Drag the statsNeLMod folder and put it next to (but not in) the default OOTP "stats" folder.

Let's say you are in your RD and you want Josh Gibson to be in the draft class. You'd go to Free Agents in Commish mode, upper right, drop down, Import Historical player and it brings up the import menu. It asks you to select the historical.database.odb file you want to import from. It shows you the default one because it assume you want the one in "stats". Click the up button to go up the file tree a step and select the statsNeLMod folder. There is also a historical.database.odb file in there. Select that.

Now you are ready to import Josh. But you need his import code and debut year. So go back to the unzipped download and look at the /documents folder. There is a pdf manual. Go to page 16 and you see Josh debuts in 1930. For his import code use the list here:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...1&postcount=65

Of course, be sure to check the box on the import screen that you want him in the draft class otherwise he comes in, as any import does, as a free agent.

I don't want to add to the confusion, but you can drag that folder right inside the stats folder, too. That's what I do with all my modified stats folders. I've done Spritze that way, and the Fed Leaguers + Fencepost fielders DB as well. You just have to point to the proper database path from within the game, and everything's good. I never wanted to use the Sprize DB on its own, so I messed around with it, and figured out how to import from it using that setup. Be absolutely 100% sure to shut down the game, come back in, and make sure the database path is reset to the default one, unless you're supposed to use that InteGREATed League DB from now on. Can you clarify this Lansdowne?

I know the feeling DW's feeling of getting your first player into your game from another DB. It's a really exuberant feeling, and you've got this sense of conquering something that seemed impossible just a few moments before. Good on ya DW for being persistent, and not giving up on this. Also, do not touch a thing now. It's working, and that's all that matters. Don't listen to my meanderings anymore. Lansdowne was great with that explanation. Hop out of that desk chair, do your OOTP happy dance, and give yourself a high five.

Sorry if I had any role in that anxiety provoking experience for you. I can really suck at explaining things sometimes. I'm just (really) happy that it's all worked out.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Hey there, action.

As another RD guy, you too can just treat the db as you would the old Spritze one for an RD game. Just need to drop the statsNeLMod folder next to the regular "stats" folder and navigate to it as the starting db in the advanced options when setting up an RD game. It's only 212 NeL stars atm but it's the players most have heard of. Enjoy! As you know, it took us a while to get the db up and running but it's a joy to have it

Even though I think it's fantastic, I won't be using it in my games, for now. Not sure how I can adapt my draft system to it, so I have no idea how I would measure the default DB guys vs the InteGREATed League DB guys. If I figure it out, I'll start using it for sure, but for now I won't be. I'm stunned by the incredible effort, and it looks like it could be as good as, or (dare I say, as I was a disciple of it) better than the Spritze DB. I've noticed there are Japanese, Korean, Cuban, and PCL players in there, and possibly others. Do they have stats too, or is it "just" the NeLers?

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I don't want to add to the confusion, but you can drag that folder right inside the stats folder, too. That's what I do with all my modified stats folders. I've done Spritze that way, and the Fed Leaguers + Fencepost fielders DB as well. You just have to point to the proper database path from within the game, and everything's good. I never wanted to use the Sprize DB on its own, so I messed around with it, and figured out how to import from it using that setup. Be absolutely 100% sure to shut down the game, come back in, and make sure the database path is reset to the default one, unless you're supposed to use that InteGREATed League DB from now on. Can you clarify this Lansdowne?

I know the feeling DW's feeling of getting your first player into your game from another DB. It's a really exuberant feeling, and you've got this sense of conquering something that seemed impossible just a few moments before. Good on ya DW for being persistent, and not giving up on this. Also, do not touch a thing now. It's working, and that's all that matters. Don't listen to my meanderings anymore. Lansdowne was great with that explanation. Hop out of that desk chair, do your OOTP happy dance, and give yourself a high five.

Sorry if I had any role in that anxiety provoking experience for you. I can really suck at explaining things sometimes. I'm just (really) happy that it's all worked out.

Oh sure, you can put it anywhere but for ease of finding it having it (statsNeLMod folder) next to the regular "stats" folder is easiest imo. That way it is always right there where all "customizable data" folders are. It's easy to flip between odb files too as needed.

I'd still play a regular game with the regular stats file. For example, if you play with rookies going to their first real life team, you'd want the default Jackie going to the Dodgers in 1947 instead of the Jackie with two extra years on his career coming in as a FA in 1945. If playing a regular AL/NL game you also wouldn't want our four NeL teams joining the AL & NL in 1910... But depends on what you want and how you play, I guess.

Eric Chalek has MLEs for Japanese and Korean players of the past and plenty more NeL and Latin players and that's a longer-term project of mine to build out. But I'm aware inclusion of Japanese players make it difficult to put on the board here,... but I'll figure out that next year (or two). For now, the 212 NeL players will have to suffice. I don't have an interest in adding MLEs of PCL players even if they existed even though Spritze had them and a bunch of other minor leaguers and even then-high school players and bunch of other stuff in his db. I need time to do facegens after all!

As alluded to, the InteGREATed does other things besides being an alternative database to import individuals from. The Teams.csv is altered to accommodate the talent by pulling expansion forward to 1910. It has a revised ballparks era.txt (that you need to rename to the default one and swap out) that will put those pulled-forward teams proper homes. It has the 3D ballparks, the uniforms, logos etc. for those pulled forward teams. etc. That's the core of it. It's a big manual but most are preferred settings for ideal play as opposed to the core minimum things to do to get it running (that are in the beginning of the manual).

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Even though I think it's fantastic, I won't be using it in my games, for now. Not sure how I can adapt my draft system to it, so I have no idea how I would measure the default DB guys vs the InteGREATed League DB guys. If I figure it out, I'll start using it for sure, but for now I won't be. I'm stunned by the incredible effort, and it looks like it could be as good as, or (dare I say, as I was a disciple of it) better than the Spritze DB. I've noticed there are Japanese, Korean, Cuban, and PCL players in there, and possibly others. Do they have stats too, or is it "just" the NeLers?

How many versions of OOTP has your RD been running? Or did you start a new one?

[David Watts]

Another stupid question. If I was to use the mod to create a random debut league in say 1947, how many teams would there be in the AL and how many in the NL? Would it still be the 16 teams with 8 in each league or would there be more teams? Thanks.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Another stupid question. If I was to use the mod to create a random debut league in say 1947, how many teams would there be in the AL and how many in the NL? Would it still be the 16 teams with 8 in each league or would there be more teams? Thanks.

If you start the RD game using the statsNeLMod data folder when you set up the league in 1947 (as per the manual, navigating in the advanced mode during set-up), there will be 4 additional teams. These will turn into the 61/62 teams when you reach that respective year.

If you start an RD game in 1947 using the default OOTP /stats folder, you are using the default Teams.csv so it is the 16 teams. That's where I'd just import an occasional NeL player direct from the mod database (and not one that will appear naturally like Monte) but ones that don't come in naturally - though I'd import the mod Satchel Paige, but that's me.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

If you start the RD game using the statsNeLMod data folder when you set up the league in 1947 (as per the manual, navigating in the advanced mode during set-up), there will be 4 additional teams. These will turn into the 61/62 teams when you reach that respective year.

If you start an RD game in 1947 using the default OOTP /stats folder, you are using the default Teams.csv so it is the 16 teams. That's where I'd just import an occasional NeL player direct from the mod database (and not one that will appear naturally like Monte) but ones that don't come in naturally - though I'd import the mod Satchel Paige, but that's me.

Thank you. This sounds perfect. I hardly ever play random debut using the actual MLB structure of the year I start in. Instead I usually delete teams and go with a smaller setup, so that teams can have deeper rosters. This allows me to use higher injury settings right from the start.

So, using the mod, I can start in 1947, delete 4 teams and start with 16 teams. This is a dream come true. This is such a huge addition.