Will we ever get real pitcher fatigue incorporated??

[findinghomer]

What I mean by this is, it doesn't matter how many pitches a pitcher throws, Fatigue level drops at exact same pace for every single pitcher (give or a few pts. )


For example , if you use a starting pitcher and you choose to only face him versus 6 batters and maybe 20 pitches, the next day he will still be 4% fatigue level. and he couldn't pitch again for 5 days. No matter who your pitching staff , What's their stamina is,
How many pitches or batters they face, Or even what league there in. this is what the outcome is every time.

Day after start: 4%
2 days after start: 13-18%
3 days after start: 34-37%
4 days after start : 64-66%
5 days after start: 100%

With stamina Rating , pitches thrown , or batters faced seemingly having no effect on fatigue , it really hampers strategy for managing pitchers. I had a pitcher leave a game in an online After throwing 2 pitches ( minor 1 day to day injury), but he was still at a 4% fatigue lol. Theoretically, I should have been able to pitch him the next game , or even the next day if i wanted to be a dork, and he should have been at 100%.
This game has evolved so far to overlook such a glaring issue.

Pitcher fatigue should not be generic. It should be based on each individual pitcher and the way he was used.

[ayaghmour2]

So this is dependent on your league's fatigue settings. If you're playing a non-modern game what you are looking for happens all the time. I have a sim in the 40s and I often use my ace as a stopper/closer and he can start the next game 100% rested.

Regardless, stamina and pitch count does impact fatigue, but you don't notice it as much in modern games. I'd argue batters faced should have no impact on stamina, why do you think it should? Why would facing 15 batters tire you out more then 10, if the 15 batters went down on 40 pitches and the 10 on 50?

Granted, I do think the thing you are on about is the 2 pitch thing. If a starter throws even less then 10 pitches you'd think they'd be at or near 100% for another game the next day

[ayaghmour2]

Did a little testing too it's not always 4%

Couldn't do one pitch per pitcher, but did one at bat. Different stamina, different pitch count, different fatigue%

Musgrove was 40% after two days. Fully rested after 4. Yoshi too after 4, even though he started with more fatigue. Maybe the game takes into account that starters have previous side sessions and had to get worked out

Regardless, this is not true:

Originally Posted by findinghomer

Day after start: 4%
2 days after start: 13-18%
3 days after start: 34-37%
4 days after start : 64-66%
5 days after start: 100%

[findinghomer]

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

Did a little testing too it's not always 4%

Couldn't do one pitch per pitcher, but did one at bat. Different stamina, different pitch count, different fatigue%

Musgrove was 40% after two days. Fully rested after 4. Yoshi too after 4, even though he started with more fatigue. Maybe the game takes into account that starters have previous side sessions and had to get worked out

Regardless, this is not true:

It absolutely is true ! Your guys just pitched 4 and 6 pitches and lost 85% stamina LOL. You are too focused on being right about individual fatigue levels that I stated , even though I did say give or take. (which are almost every single time 100% accurate) rather than looking at the big picture. Go through every single level of your minor leagues and look at the pitcher that pitched yesterday his fatigue will be on 4% every time. ��. You did one quick test I've been noticing this for the past 2 iterations of the game and I have a much larger sample than doing 2 quick test with 2 pitchers. Even tho You did prove my point.

This is a modern league we are in your 2056

[findinghomer]

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

Did a little testing too it's not always 4%

Couldn't do one pitch per pitcher, but did one at bat. Different stamina, different pitch count, different fatigue%

Musgrove was 40% after two days. Fully rested after 4. Yoshi too after 4, even though he started with more fatigue. Maybe the game takes into account that starters have previous side sessions and had to get worked out

Regardless, this is not true:

Your math is not mathing .if you lose 15% stamina just from throwing a handful of pitches you would be exhausted after throwing one inning every time. They are starting pitchers too LOL... I would hate to see what a reliever would lose their stamina at if the code was correct.. I'm curious if there is a reason for this or if it is just a glaring flaw that they've never even paid attention to because it's bothered me for years

[findinghomer]

By the way now do those same pitchers but throw 30 pitches and see what their stamina is... see if it goes to 4 or see if it's still at 16%. it could have something to do with those pitchers. Either way there's no way the math will add up to be correct it's a flaw dude.

And also with you saying my claims are not true , that means that we can use strategy! we actually can use use a pitcher every 4 days as long as he doesn't throw more than 4 or 6 pitches LOL

[ayaghmour2]

Originally Posted by findinghomer

It absolutely is true ! Your guys just pitched 4 and 6 pitches and lost 85% stamina LOL. You are too focused on being right about individual fatigue levels that I stated , even though I did say give or take. (which are almost every single time 100% accurate) rather than looking at the big picture. Go through every single level of your minor leagues and look at the pitcher that pitched yesterday his fatigue will be on 4% every time. ��. You did one quick test I've been noticing this for the past 2 iterations of the game and I have a much larger sample than doing 2 quick test with 2 pitchers. Even tho You did prove my point.

This is a modern league we are in your 2056

I'm confused, did you see the screenshot? You said it would be 4% after 1 day? Each pitcher was more then 4% rested. And both pitchers with low pitch counts were ready in 4 days of rest, not the traditional 5

These are your words, and they aren't quite accurate:

Originally Posted by findinghomer

For example , if you use a starting pitcher and you choose to only face him versus 6 batters and maybe 20 pitches, the next day he will still be 4% fatigue level. and he couldn't pitch again for 5 days. No matter who your pitching staff , What's their stamina is,
How many pitches or batters they face, Or even what league there in. this is what the outcome is every time.

You didn't say give or take, you just said he will still be 4% fatigue level, which is not what I'm seeing, and he couldn't pitch again for 5 days, which again, is not what I'm seeing

I'll humor you though, I'll sim with minor league games. Here's what I found for a bunch of International League (AAA) pitchers:




Yes, there are a lot of 4s, but there are a few others too. Clearly though, it's not as you thought. There are a few guys who aren't at 4% so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I just don't get how you can see conflicting data and think I proved your point. Unless I am missing your point completely.

Again, I'm not saying fatigue is perfect. And I do agree that if a guy barely pitches, he should be more-or-less rested the next day. But fatigue is related to stamina, league settings, and pitch count.

[ayaghmour2]

Also, it's not always 100% after 5 days. I abused Kyle Gibson and he was only 75% rested after 5 days. Simply put, pitches do make a difference, and I imagine if he had less then 65 (20-80) stamina, he'd be even more tired even with a full slate of rest

[findinghomer]

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

I'm confused, did you see the screenshot? You said it would be 4% after 1 day? Each pitcher was more then 4% rested. And both pitchers with low pitch counts were ready in 4 days of rest, not the traditional 5

These are your words, and they aren't quite accurate:



You didn't say give or take, you just said he will still be 4% fatigue level, which is not what I'm seeing, and he couldn't pitch again for 5 days, which again, is not what I'm seeing

I'll humor you though, I'll sim with minor league games. Here's what I found for a bunch of International League (AAA) pitchers:


Attachment 1035413

Yes, there are a lot of 4s, but there are a few others too. Clearly though, it's not as you thought. There are a few guys who aren't at 4% so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I just don't get how you can see conflicting data and think I proved your point. Unless I am missing your point completely.

Again, I'm not saying fatigue is perfect. And I do agree that if a guy barely pitches, he should be more-or-less rested the next day. But fatigue is related to stamina, league settings, and pitch count.

[snipped] I have never seen anybody with something other than, 4% but [snipped] if it's 2% or even 3% it's still unpitchable, that's not the point!!!! it my point remains , its all generic. It doesn't correlate with pitches thrown, or an individual pitcher stamina , ability, endurance nothing! It's all 100% scripted. you running a couple tests just to see if my claim is correct and yours not being not being 100% the exact same fatigue level means nothing ! I've been noticing this for years, I don't have to run test , pay attention in your everyday gaming you're going to notice exactly what I'm saying. here I'll reword it where you cannot refute it,

After 1 day of pitching you're gonna be in single digits after 2 day of pitching you're gonna be in the teens after 3 days you're gonna be in the 30s
after 4 days you're gonna be in the 60s
after 5 days you're gonna be 100%

REGARDLESS OF PITCHER, OR PITCHES THROWN

[findinghomer]

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

Also, it's not always 100% after 5 days. I abused Kyle Gibson and he was only 75% rested after 5 days. Simply put, pitches do make a difference, and I imagine if he had less then 65 (20-80) stamina, he'd be even more tired even with a full slate of rest

Pitched yesterday: single digit
Pitched two days ago: teens
Pitched three days ago: thirties
Pitched four says ago: sixties
Pitched five days ago: 100

Pitches thrown vs stamina: does not matter this scale will be the same every time.

There. Better 🤡

[ayaghmour2]

Originally Posted by findinghomer

Jesus Christ these boards need a clown emoji. you people who just want to be right based on technicality are annoying. I have never seen anybody with something other than, 4% but who gives a **** if it's 2% or even 3% it's still unpitchable, that's not the point!!!! it my point remains , its all generic. It doesn't correlate with pitches thrown, or an individual pitcher stamina , ability, endurance nothing! It's all 100% scripted. you running a couple tests just to see if my claim is correct and yours not being not being 100% the exact same fatigue level means nothing ! I've been noticing this for years, I don't have to run test , pay attention in your everyday gaming you're going to notice exactly what I'm saying. here I'll reword it where you cannot refute it,

After 1 day of pitching you're gonna be in single digits after 2 day of pitching you're gonna be in the teens after 3 days you're gonna be in the 30s
after 4 days you're gonna be in the 60s
after 5 days you're gonna be 100%

REGARDLESS OF PITCHER, OR PITCHES THROWN

Dude look at this screenshot:



He's clearly not 100% rested after 5 days! I really don't know what more you want?

I don't want to be right on a technicality lol but if you are saying "after 5 days you're gonna be 100%" and I can make a pitcher not be 100% rested after 5 days, then how can you be right? Your reword was very easy to refute

And then look at this one:



He's rested after 4 days! The opposite of what you expected! I'm not sure where this disconnect is but I'd love to hear others chime in

And if you want a clown emoji, here you go! 🤡

Look, I'm really not trying to fight, and I agree with you to an extent that fatigue needs a rework

But I just can't see how you see the data that I'm presenting that conflicts with your broad suppositions. I manage games out, in multiple different eras, and I can see how stamina, pitch count, etc. effect rest status. After 5 days, Gibson clearly isn't 100% rested, and after 4 days Musgrove clearly is 100% rested

[findinghomer]

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

Dude look at this screenshot:

Attachment 1035416

He's clearly not 100% rested after 5 days! I really don't know what more you want?

I don't want to be right on a technicality lol but if you are saying "after 5 days you're gonna be 100%" and I can make a pitcher not be 100% rested after 5 days, then how can you be right? Your reword was very easy to refute

And then look at this one:

Attachment 1035417

He's rested after 4 days! The opposite of what you expected! I'm not sure where this disconnect is but I'd love to hear others chime in

And if you want a clown emoji, here you go! ��

Look, I'm really not trying to fight, and I agree with you to an extent that fatigue needs a rework

But I just can't see how you see the data that I'm presenting that conflicts with your broad suppositions. I manage games out, in multiple different eras, and I can see how stamina, pitch count, etc. effect rest status. After 5 days, Gibson clearly isn't 100% rested, and after 4 days Musgrove clearly is 100% rested

He's 100 after 4 days of rest after throwing 4 pitches on his 1st day !!! come on dude use real Game situations .I already explained it above. Wasting my time and your cluttering up this thread . I'm hoping the developer can see it and possibly fix it.

You would see if you would read instead of trying your best to be right about something , what I'm trying to accomplish. What more do i want? Stamina should not be a set generic schedule.... it should be based on the pitcher's stamina and the pitcher's thrown. should be able to start a pitcher have him throw 50 pitches and him be at 30 or 40 percent the next day ( Whatever his ratings to pitch thrown would allow ) . Then maybe another pitcher throws 70 pitches and his stamina is on 28%... Not just an automatic single digit fatigue level just because he pitched that day .

[findinghomer]

And obviously you are grasping what I'm saying [snipped]

[findinghomer]

I just went through the league I'm in. went through every single level and every single pitch that pitched yesterday....4%. . I don't care if there's a pitcher or 2 out there on somebody else's team that is maybe 1% less LOL that doesn't mean I'm wrong. my point still remains

[ayaghmour2]

I just don't get why you're so quick to call names, and I'm not trying to be right dude...

I'm trying to understand what you're getting at. Why does the Kyle Gibson thing not go against what you are saying? Based on your own words, you're saying he will always be 100% rested after 5 days. But he's not...

Stamina (or what you mean, fatigue) is not a generic schedule. If it was, Gibson would be 100% rested on day 5. I just can't grasp how you don't see pitches thrown making an impact. If Gibson threw 100 pitches, maybe even 110, he'd be 100% rested after 5 days. But since he threw too many pitches, he's not 100% after 5 days rest

Why though, should you be able to do this: "should be able to start a pitcher have him throw 50 pitches and him be at 30 or 40 percent the next day"

At least in a modern game. In a historical game, or one where pitchers can pitch longer, you certainly can. But when have you seen a guy throw 50 pitches as a starter, and then pitch the next day?

Whether I respond or not will not impact the devs seeing it, and honestly, more replies likely increases the chances it gets viewed. But hey, it's your thread, and this can be my last post on it if you want

[findinghomer]

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

I just don't get why you're so quick to call names, and I'm not trying to be right dude...

I'm trying to understand what you're getting at. Why does the Kyle Gibson thing not go against what you are saying? Based on your own words, you're saying he will always be 100% rested after 5 days. But he's not...

Stamina (or what you mean, fatigue) is not a generic schedule. If it was, Gibson would be 100% rested on day 5. I just can't grasp how you don't see pitches thrown making an impact. If Gibson threw 100 pitches, maybe even 110, he'd be 100% rested after 5 days. But since he threw too many pitches, he's not 100% after 5 days rest

Why though, should you be able to do this: "should be able to start a pitcher have him throw 50 pitches and him be at 30 or 40 percent the next day"

At least in a modern game. In a historical game, or one where pitchers can pitch longer, you certainly can. But when have you seen a guy throw 50 pitches as a starter, and then pitch the next day?

Whether I respond or not will not impact the devs seeing it, and honestly, more replies likely increases the chances it gets viewed. But hey, it's your thread, and this can be my last post on it if you want

My point is your harping on my exact fatigue levels I posted. All you did was a real quick simple test just to prove them wrong. I have seen fatigues that differed, and not exactly to a T of what I described, but that's wasnt the point. Theyre ALWAYS in the general range . single digits, then teens, 30s, then 60s and then 100. every time.

The way the game is now (that obv you think is not flawed) means there would be no way to use a relief pitcher because they couldn't pitch more than 6 pitches without losing 85% of their stamina makes no sense.

That's why I think I should be able to put a starting pitcher in in him only throw 50 pitches and still not not be at single digit percentages, Because pitchers do not exhaust all of their stamina after throwing 50 pitches. But the way the game is coded, no matter how many pitches he throws (real game scenario) he's going to be in single Digits. And that is just not realistic for a game that has come so far with realism. I'm just absolutely dumbfounded that you don't understand what I'm saying

[findinghomer]

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

I just don't get why you're so quick to call names, and I'm not trying to be right dude...

I'm trying to understand what you're getting at. Why does the Kyle Gibson thing not go against what you are saying? Based on your own words, you're saying he will always be 100% rested after 5 days. But he's not...

Stamina (or what you mean, fatigue) is not a generic schedule. If it was, Gibson would be 100% rested on day 5. I just can't grasp how you don't see pitches thrown making an impact. If Gibson threw 100 pitches, maybe even 110, he'd be 100% rested after 5 days. But since he threw too many pitches, he's not 100% after 5 days rest

Why though, should you be able to do this: "should be able to start a pitcher have him throw 50 pitches and him be at 30 or 40 percent the next day"

At least in a modern game. In a historical game, or one where pitchers can pitch longer, you certainly can. But when have you seen a guy throw 50 pitches as a starter, and then pitch the next day?

Whether I respond or not will not impact the devs seeing it, and honestly, more replies likely increases the chances it gets viewed. But hey, it's your thread, and this can be my last post on it if you want

I am obviously a lot older than you and I've been playing this game for over 20 years I remember when There was no variety in overalls you were either a 20 or you were 60s and up. There was almost no 45 or 35 etc.

Same here. there may be some anomalies but you will never see a pitcher throw a game and his fatigue not be anywhere between the 2 and 4% that you regardless of your p or the pitcher's thrown. I mean hell you could put a reliever in with a rating of one stamina throw, him a 120 pitches and I'll hell still be at 4% lolol. why wouldn't he be at 0% or maybe even negative or get injured, or die......??? Nope... FOUR % Lol..

It's just stupid, and one of the basic fundamentals of baseball. this game has been around so long it's seriously flawed

[findinghomer]

Those overall ratings were annoying too because you were either red or you were green there was no yellow . Thank God they fix that .Think this needs to be focused on now

[findinghomer]

Originally Posted by findinghomer

My point is your harping on my exact fatigue levels I posted. All you did was a real quick simple test just to prove them wrong. I have seen fatigues that differed, and not exactly to a T of what I described, but that's wasnt the point. Theyre ALWAYS in the general range . single digits, then teens, 30s, then 60s and then 100. every time.

The way the game is now (that obv you think is not flawed) means there would be no way to use a relief pitcher because they couldn't pitch more than 6 pitches without losing 85% of their stamina makes no sense.

That's why I think I should be able to put a starting pitcher in in him only throw 50 pitches and still not not be at single digit percentages, Because pitchers do not exhaust all of their stamina after throwing 50 pitches. But the way the game is coded, no matter how many pitches he throws (real game scenario) he's going to be in single Digits. And that is just not realistic for a game that has come so far with realism. I'm just absolutely dumbfounded that you don't understand what I'm saying

You are trying to be right. because in your little sample the guy only threw 4 pitches . I haven't tested little silly scenarios that don't matter , im worried about real game strategy.

So either way, you think it's acceptable that if you throw 4 pitches you need 4 days of rest? We'll even use your 6 pitch guy , if you throw 6 pitches they need 4 days of rest to get to 100?! Or are u just "trying to be right" smdh LOL

[ayaghmour2]

Originally Posted by findinghomer

My point is your harping on my exact fatigue levels I posted. All you did was a real quick simple test just to prove them wrong. I have seen fatigues that differed, and not exactly to a T of what I described, but that's wasnt the point. Theyre ALWAYS in the general range . single digits, then teens, 30s, then 60s and then 100. every time.

The way the game is now (that obv you think is not flawed) means there would be no way to use a relief pitcher because they couldn't pitch more than 6 pitches without losing 85% of their stamina makes no sense.

That's why I think I should be able to put a starting pitcher in in him only throw 50 pitches and still not not be at single digit percentages, Because pitchers do not exhaust all of their stamina after throwing 50 pitches. But the way the game is coded, no matter how many pitches he throws (real game scenario) he's going to be in single Digits. And that is just not realistic for a game that has come so far with realism. I'm just absolutely dumbfounded that you don't understand what I'm saying

Okay we're almost on the same page. But you made a ton of assumptions. I wasn't trying to dismiss everything you said, just the absolutes. It's really the always 100% after 5 days part I have an issue with, because objectively, that's not the case

Me admitting that fatigue isn't perfect right off the bat:

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

Granted, I do think the thing you are on about is the 2 pitch thing. If a starter throws even less then 10 pitches you'd think they'd be at or near 100% for another game the next day

I never said fatigue wasn't flawed, just parts of what you were saying.

Also, relievers have their stamina calculated different then starters. You can actually see it on the page if you list a guy in your pen as an SP or a guy in your rotation as a RP/CL:



Also, if you change stamina in the editor, it gives you different fatigue levels:



Are these effects too minimal? Maybe? But stamina and fatigue are directly related

So I think this is the disconnect: you think pitchers are penalized too much for pitching the day before. I disagree to an extent, because I think a starter who throws 50 pitches the previous day shouldn't be able to give much the next day, assuming a modern environment

Check this guy out:



This seems realistic? He shouldn't be able to pitch much after throwing 47 pitches. I think the overall issue is the game uses fatigue like this:

1. SPs: it assumes he throws a starters workload
2. RPs: it assumes he throws a reliever workload

(in both cases, based on your league settings)

What you want, it seems, is stamina to be like an hour class. A guy can throw 100 pitches. His stamina % is equal to 100 pitches - pitches thrown the last day (on day 1) and then maybe each of the next four days it goes up by 25%?:

Theoretically:
Day 0: 95 pitches
Day 1: 100-95 = 5%
Day 2: 5 + 25 = 30%
Day 3: 30 + 25 = 55%
Day 4: 55 + 25 = 80%
Day 5: 80 + 25 = 105% -- round down to 100%

Honestly, I'm not sure that's a better way to do it, but that's not for me to decide.

--

Originally Posted by findinghomer

I am obviously a lot older than you and I've been playing this game for over 20 years I remember when There was no variety in overalls you were either a 20 or you were 60s and up. There was almost no 45 or 35 etc.

Same here. there may be some anomalies but you will never see a pitcher throw a game and his fatigue not be anywhere between the 2 and 4% that you regardless of your p or the pitcher's thrown. I mean hell you could put a reliever in with a rating of one stamina throw, him a 120 pitches and I'll hell still be at 4% lolol. why wouldn't he be at 0% or maybe even negative or get injured, or die......??? Nope... FOUR % Lol..

It's just stupid, and one of the basic fundamentals of baseball. this game has been around so long it's seriously flawed

A bit longer, yes. A lot older, most likely. I've played since OOTP 8, but not when it first came out. Maybe 2012 was when I started? Pretty much 1,000 hours in each of the last six versions and I do a lot of testing. That's 12 years of playing and at least 7,000 hours. Why does any of that matters though?

In fact, an RP with 1 stamina does go to 0%:



I guess I'm just stuck on your numbers because you make it seem like it always happens, and there are no possible alternatives, even though that's not quite the case. Maybe in 85% of cases, sure, but since it's not 100%, there is some sort of relation between pitches thrown and stamina, as well as whether a pitcher is a SP or RP

But stop with the trying to be right stuff lol I'm doing my best to provide data and understand a potential change. Again, fatigue isn't perfect. It might be worth reworking. It's just all your claims aren't as accurate as you think. I guess it's the way I'm wording things that is making you think I just want to be right, everything you're saying is wrong, and the game is perfect. So I guess for that, my apologies.