Can I develop any outfielder into a centerfielder, or does running speed factor into it?

[uruguru]

Just wondering if it's possible for a lumbering LF with a huge bat to eventually become a quality CF?


Seems like it shouldn't be possible for slow guys to do this, but I was curious about it

[Rain King]

Speed is not part of the equation when it comes to fielding ratings.

There may be some connection between Outfield Range and Speed behind the scenes, I'm not sure, but it is definitely possible to have good Outfield Range without having good Speed (but very rare).

IRL, Range is much more about getting good jumps and having good routes than top speed. Usually someone that has the athleticism for a good first step will also have good speed, but not necessarily.

[Sweed]

I believe the only factor is outfield range. And from what I've seen speed (on the surface**) isn't a factor in determining outfield range as speed is only a baserunning rating/skill.

From the manual..

Speed - Speed is a measure of how quickly a player can run from one base to the next. Players with a high rating in Speed are more of a threat to steal bases, and are more likely to advance further on a ball in play. Running Speed is strictly for offensive play. For example, Speed does not factor into an outfielder's range. However, Speed and Defensive Range are linked internally. For example, as a player ages, his speed and range will generally decline at the same pace.

**Even though speed does not factor into outfield range I think when players are created there is a correlation. If I look at my OF on my team I do have high speed guys that have low OF range. I do not have low speed guys that have high OF range.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Speed is not part of the equation when it comes to fielding ratings.

There may be some connection between Outfield Range and Speed behind the scenes, I'm not sure, but it is definitely possible to have good Outfield Range without having good Speed (but very rare).

IRL, Range is much more about getting good jumps and having good routes than top speed. Usually someone that has the athleticism for a good first step will also have good speed, but not necessarily.

ok, so in OOTP there is no connection between raw running speed and OF range. Got it.


Seems just a bit off, but then again that's why I asked. Even if Speed is not part of the OF Range equation, I was ultimately wondering if it would make a difference in improving a player's OF Range via the development lab. Like maybe a slow player has a greater chance of failure of improving his defensive skills in CF.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by uruguru

Just wondering if it's possible for a lumbering LF with a huge bat to eventually become a quality CF?


Seems like it shouldn't be possible for slow guys to do this, but I was curious about it

Is this a fictional player or a real one?

If real is recalc on?

What are his skill ratings? (Range, Arm, Error.)

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by uruguru

ok, so in OOTP there is no connection between raw running speed and OF range. Got it.


Seems just a bit off, but then again that's why I asked. Even if Speed is not part of the OF Range equation, I was ultimately wondering if it would make a difference in improving a player's OF Range via the development lab. Like maybe a slow player has a greater chance of failure of improving his defensive skills in CF.

As has been mentioned, there does seem to be a connection at the player creation level. There just isn't a direct connection once a player exists.

It is also possible that speed is considered by the Dev Lab. I have no idea there.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by uruguru

ok, so in OOTP there is no connection between raw running speed and OF range. Got it.


Seems just a bit off, but then again that's why I asked. Even if Speed is not part of the OF Range equation, I was ultimately wondering if it would make a difference in improving a player's OF Range via the development lab. Like maybe a slow player has a greater chance of failure of improving his defensive skills in CF.

Originally Posted by Rain King

As has been mentioned, there does seem to be a connection at the player creation level. There just isn't a direct connection once a player exists.

It is also possible that speed is considered by the Dev Lab. I have no idea there.

Wil Beh has been making appearances in the v26 forum. Might be a good place and time to ask?

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Is this a fictional player or a real one?

If real is recalc on?

What are his skill ratings? (Range, Arm, Error.)

Assume recalc is off. Let's say I have two lumbering left fielders with big bats. This is a common animal in baseball.


The question is whether I can gradually transition one into a competent centerfielder via the development lab. If, for example, I can move a Greg Luzinski type player into center field, then that makes them far more valuable.


I originally assumed that it would not be possible, but then thought better and decided to ask if anyone knew if this was possible. If no one knows, I'll do some test sims and figure it out.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by uruguru

Assume recalc is off. Let's say I have two lumbering left fielders with big bats. This is a common animal in baseball.


The question is whether I can gradually transition one into a competent centerfielder via the development lab. If, for example, I can move a Greg Luzinski type player into center field, then that makes them far more valuable.


I originally assumed that it would not be possible, but then thought better and decided to ask if anyone knew if this was possible. If no one knows, I'll do some test sims and figure it out.

You are unlikely to be able to transition him through the development lab because it does not allow you to select what position you want the player to learn. I have not observed the lab ever training a player to play a position in the same category (OF, IF, C).

If recalc is off you can try the guy in CF during spring training. With recalc on players barely improve in new positions in ST starting with OOTP 25. I have confirmed this through testing. The ability to learn new positions in ST was reduced when the Dev Lab was introduced. It works like previous versions with development only.

You're thinking correctly that enough bat can more than compensate for below average CF rating. Computer managers know it. In my saves computer managers often place players like Henry Aaron and Tony Oliva in CF.

Suggest you check around the league for below average CFs and look at their skill ratings. Compare those to your player's skill ratings. That will give you a good indication of where your player will end up with experience.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by uruguru

Just wondering if it's possible for a lumbering LF with a huge bat to eventually become a quality CF?


Seems like it shouldn't be possible for slow guys to do this, but I was curious about it

If the player has good range, like 65+ and at least decent error and arm, of course you can. Speed does not matter it is all based on the range, error, and arm and for CF it is mainly range that is the most important stat. If he has 55 range, I would not bother because he might be a 50 max rating for CF and that would not be very good. But, like I said, if the dude has monster range and the other two are at least 50+ yeah he should make a pretty decent CF.

And you can do this during Spring Training, a lot quicker than the Development Lab. Also, no the Dev Lab is not going to make a dude with like 50 range into a CF. If they are already an OF, the game would look to give them a Infield position, at least that has been what I have got from my experience on testing the learn position lab.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by twins_34

And you can do this during Spring Training, a lot quicker than the Development Lab. Also, no the Dev Lab is not going to make a dude with like 50 range into a CF. If they are already an OF, the game would look to give them a Infield position, at least that has been what I have got from my experience on testing the learn position lab.

As you say, the Dev Lab won't train an OF to play another OF position. However don't look at spring training as a solution.

The ability to train players to play other positions in ST was greatly reduced with real player unless the game is set to development only. Development and recalc combination doesn't work as it did in previous versions.

So what we're left with is a situation where the Dev Lab took away the ability to train a player to play a related position. We can't do it anymore and the Dev Lab won't do it.

As a person who worked on the Dev Lab perhaps you have some insight into this decision.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by uruguru

Assume recalc is off

.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by uruguru

ok, so in OOTP there is no connection between raw running speed and OF range. Got it.


Seems just a bit off, but then again that's why I asked. Even if Speed is not part of the OF Range equation, I was ultimately wondering if it would make a difference in improving a player's OF Range via the development lab. Like maybe a slow player has a greater chance of failure of improving his defensive skills in CF.

ridiculous. raw speed give you an advantage in range.
range can include speed and your ability to read the ball, get a jump on the ball quickly and ultimately if you are in range of the ball, catching it

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by uruguru

Assume recalc is off. Let's say I have two lumbering left fielders with big bats. This is a common animal in baseball.


The question is whether I can gradually transition one into a competent centerfielder via the development lab. If, for example, I can move a Greg Luzinski type player into center field, then that makes them far more valuable.


I originally assumed that it would not be possible, but then thought better and decided to ask if anyone knew if this was possible. If no one knows, I'll do some test sims and figure it out.

Doubtful, playing perfect team for years, you can get a player to be serviceable, but they will likely always have low ratings.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Brad K

As you say, the Dev Lab won't train an OF to play another OF position. However don't look at spring training as a solution.

The ability to train players to play other positions in ST was greatly reduced with real player unless the game is set to development only. Development and recalc combination doesn't work as it did in previous versions.

So what we're left with is a situation where the Dev Lab took away the ability to train a player to play a related position. We can't do it anymore and the Dev Lab won't do it.

As a person who worked on the Dev Lab perhaps you have some insight into this decision.

I did not know this. that is disappointing

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by Brad K

As you say, the Dev Lab won't train an OF to play another OF position. However don't look at spring training as a solution.

The ability to train players to play other positions in ST was greatly reduced with real player unless the game is set to development only. Development and recalc combination doesn't work as it did in previous versions.

So what we're left with is a situation where the Dev Lab took away the ability to train a player to play a related position. We can't do it anymore and the Dev Lab won't do it.

As a person who worked on the Dev Lab perhaps you have some insight into this decision.

Then Play without recalc and there, fixed for you!

TBH I will never understand wanting to play with the dev engine and recalc. For just a little spice for a few years until the player gets recalced and undoes all your development you spent the last 3 or 5 years on? I mean, play the game how you want, but what Matt explains just makes 100% sense, in this post https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...90&postcount=4.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

I did not know this. that is disappointing

It will work normally if you do not have historical features like recalc, historical lineups, transactions, turned on. If you are playing historical with just the development engine, it will work normally.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by twins_34

Then Play without recalc and there, fixed for you!

TBH I will never understand wanting to play with the dev engine and recalc. For just a little spice for a few years until the player gets recalced and undoes all your development you spent the last 3 or 5 years on? I mean, play the game how you want, but what Matt explains just makes 100% sense, in this post https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...90&postcount=4.

From OOTP 24 all the way back to at least OOTP 11 there were two presets for historical games. One of them was with recalc on and development on. You may not understand why people would want to play this way but for at least 14 years OOTP developers did.

Recalc does not wipe out ratings at learned positions. And that is not what Matt's post is about as can be seen by reading the whole thread.

As far as people might want to play with both recalc and development on, how about so players careers are in the vicinity of reality but so that players like Thurman Munson, Sandy Koufax, and Ken Hubbs can be productive in natural length careers.

[David Watts]

[QUOTE=Brad K;5164027]From OOTP 24 all the way back to at least OOTP 11 there were two presets for historical games. One of them was with recalc on and development on. You may not understand why people would want to play this way but for at least 14 years OOTP developers did.

Recalc does not wipe out ratings at learned positions. And that is not what Matt's post is about as can be seen by reading the whole thread.

As far as people might want to play with both recalc and development on, how about so players careers are in the vicinity of reality but so that players like Thurman Munson, Sandy Koufax, and Ken Hubbs can be productive in natural length careers.[/QUOTE]

Add to this the fact that when playing random debut, the combo of recalc and development works great when it comes to current day players such as Judge, Soto, Acuna etc. Having development on with recalc lets these players finish out their careers in a realistic fashion.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by twins_34

TBH I will never understand wanting to play with the dev engine and recalc. For just a little spice for a few years until the player gets recalced and undoes all your development you spent the last 3 or 5 years on? I mean, play the game how you want, but what Matt explains just makes 100% sense, in this post https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...90&postcount=4.

I know of 2 legitimate use cases for using the dev engine and recalc:

1) As David Watts mentioned, if you turn off historical retirement you are going to need the engine to age players whose careers ended early (Koufax, Clemente, etc)

2) If you want to spice up your historical league with fictional players, you need the engine on to develop them properly. The recalc ensures that the historical players still track to reality.