This is what I call a championship fight

[AESP_pres]

For only the second time in my current simulation (running since 1871), a tie-breaking game was needed to decide the league champion! Even more thrilling, it’s the first time I've seen this happen in both leagues simultaneously—and I've been playing since OOTP 2007.


This season was a nail-biter, with five teams in the American League vying for the top spot right down to the final week. Talk about an unforgettable race to the finish!

[AESP_pres]

First time since 1922 that Baltimore (counting the St. Louis Browns obviously) will play in the World Series!

EDIT: My error they did too in 1964... I'm used to see them and the Athletics being awful since so long

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

For only the second time in my current simulation (running since 1871), a tie-breaking game was needed to decide the league champion! Even more thrilling, it’s the first time I've seen this happen in both leagues simultaneously . . .

Except in 1965 it would have been a best-of-three series in each league to break the tie, not a single game. So you missed out on some tiebreaking excitement!

[AESP_pres]

Yeah I checked if it was possible to do the first time it happened but I didn't find an option to do so... only the tiebreaking game was selectable.

[AESP_pres]

Wonder what would have happened if California would have also tied in first place...

Did that ever happened in the real Major League history to have more than two teams with the same win / loss record in a league?

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Except in 1965 it would have been a best-of-three series in each league to break the tie, not a single game. So you missed out on some tiebreaking excitement!

That's what I was going to point out!

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Yeah I checked if it was possible to do the first time it happened but I didn't find an option to do so... only the tiebreaking game was selectable.

Below is how you'd do a best-of-three tiebreaker playoff. Keep in mind that tiebreaker games are considered part of the regular season (in MLB and in OOTP).

1. After all games are complete on the last regularly-scheduled day of the year, do NOT finish the day*. This will keep OOTP from adding single tiebreaker games.
2. Manually schedule for the following days the three additional tiebreaker games that you need for each tie scenario.
3. Finish the day (the last regularly scheduled day of the regular season), and OOTP will then see the additional tiebreaker game(s) as part of the regular season, as it should.
4. Play or sim the tiebreaker game(s).
5. If, after playing the first two games of the best-of-three series, do one of the following:
a) if the third game is required, play or sim it. Once it's complete and you complete the day, OOTP will schedule the postseason games.
b) if the third game is not required, manually remove it from the schedule using the Schedule Editor. Then complete the day and OOTP will schedule the postseason games.

Alternatively, in step 2 you could only schedule the first two games of the best-of-three series, and then if the third game is required step 5a would become "manually schedule the third game of the tiebreaker series, then complete the day and play or sim the third game."

Using this process but tweaking the details allows for 3-team, 4-team, round-robin, etc., tiebreaker formats.

*Somewhere around OOTP 20 a feature was added that allows the gamer to Reset League to Regular Season Mode. I haven't really messed with this, but it's described as "... in case you want to manually schedule tie-breaking games using the schedule editor." So if you were forget to NOT finish the day in Step 1 above, you could use this feature to reset OOTP to regular season mode and add more regular season (tiebreaker) games to the schedule.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Did that ever happened in the real Major League history to have more than two teams with the same win / loss record in a league?

Don't think so, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a possibility. In, for example, the early 1900's there were lots of rainouts & ties, with many games not made up. So it was common that the pennant contenders - as the season approached conclusion - were going to end up playing a different number of games, meaning it would be unlikely for two teams to have identical records at season's end, and even more unlikely that three or more teams could end up tied.

Since the 1940's, though, there were instances where three-team and four-team ties were a possibility, and schedules were drawn up - just in case - for some of those...

Generally speaking, for a three-team tie the format would depend upon what the format was for a two-team tie:
- If a two-team tie was a one-game playoff, then the league would typically draw lots to determine teams A, B, and C, and then team A would play at team B, with the winner hosting team C.
- If a two-team tie was a best-of-three, then the league would have a round-robin, double-elimination tournament of sorts.

For four-team scenarios, a lot draw would determine teams A, B, C and D, and then A would play at B, and C would play at D, and then the winners meeting. These would either be one-game playoffs or best-of-three, depending upon what the league's current two-team tiebreaker procedure was.

I believe the only time a 5-team tiebreaker wwas a possibility was in the 1973 NL. I'm not sure what you'd call the format, but - presumably after a drawing of lots - the schedule was reported as follows:

Tue 10/2: Pitt @ NYM, Mont @ StL; bye for Chic
Wed 10/3: Chic @ Mont/StL winner
Thu 10/4: NYM/Pitt winner @ winner of Wed game

[AESP_pres]

Thanks! I forgot that you can edit the schedule during the season...

[AESP_pres]

It happens again in 1966 and thanks to thehef I was able to set a three games serie between Los Angeles and Atlanta and play the game as it would have gone in real life

Edit: The Dodgers certainly thanks you too since they won the World Series against Baltimore but they would have been eliminated with a single game tie breaker

[thehef]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

It happens again in 1966 and thanks to thehef I was able to set a three games serie between Los Angeles and Atlanta and play the game as it would have gone in real life

Edit: The Dodgers certainly thanks you too since they won the World Series against Baltimore but they would have been eliminated with a single game tie breaker

Awesome! And glad I could help you - and the Dodgers - out!

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

It happens again in 1966 and thanks to thehef I was able to set a three games serie between Los Angeles and Atlanta and play the game as it would have gone in real life

NL rules always called for a best-of-3 series to break a two-way tie up through 1968. The AL started with a single game but changed to best-of-3 in 1956 if I recall correctly.

[AESP_pres]

Can you tell me for future reference (I finally play the game now since my Expos exist in 1969) if the rule will always be a three games serie for all the future seasons or the leagues set for a one game at some point?

[thehef]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Can you tell me for future reference (I finally play the game now since my Expos exist in 1969) if the rule will always be a three games serie for all the future seasons or the leagues set for a one game at some point?

If you are asking how OOTP handles historical, the default is always a one-game playoff, never best-of-three. If you want a 3-gamer, you'll have to handle it manually... Under League Settings > Options, you can disable tiebreaker games, but I'm not sure what happens then. I think OOTP will then implement tiebreaker procedures such as head-to-head record, record in division, stuff like that... But not sure.

Also, I don't play modern historical (beyond the 80's & such), but for recent seasons (since 2022 with the expanded playoffs) I'm sure OOTP follows MLB in that there are no tiebreaker games; it's settled via other tiebreaker rules...

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

NL rules always called for a best-of-3 series to break a two-way tie up through 1968. The AL started with a single game but changed to best-of-3 in 1956 if I recall correctly.

The 1957 AL race would've been decided by their traditional one-gamer... The 1958 AL race wasn't close so I wasn't able to find anything regarding whether the one- or three-game series was in place. But I did find reference that a three-gamer would've decided the 1959 AL race. So the change in format was probably made during the 1957 or 1958 winter meetings...

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by thehef

If you are asking how OOTP handles historical, the default is always a one-game playoff, never best-of-three.

I meant in real life, what the MLB rule was trough the years... I asked because Le Grande Orange said from what I understood that the three games serie stop being used after 1968.

Edit: not that it is something that happen often since, in my simulation, from 1871 to 1968 it happened three times and I guess it happened even less in real life.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by thehef

The 1957 AL race would've been decided by their traditional one-gamer... The 1958 AL race wasn't close so I wasn't able to find anything regarding whether the one- or three-game series was in place. But I did find reference that a three-gamer would've decided the 1959 AL race. So the change in format was probably made during the 1957 or 1958 winter meetings...

Checking the sources I have on hand, the change was made at the 1956 winter meetings according to an article in The Sporting News.

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

I meant in real life, what the MLB rule was trough the years... I asked because Le Grande Orange said from what I understood that the three games serie stop being used after 1968.

Edit: not that it is something that happen often since, in my simulation, from 1871 to 1968 it happened three times and I guess it happened even less in real life.

With the split into divisions in 1969 the tiebreaking in both leagues was shortened to single elimination (i.e. one game in the event of a two-way tie). Also, the AL tiebreaking rule is not so clear prior to 1948 according to a checking of the notes I have. I'll post about that later.

In real life, the NL had ties in 1946, 1951, 1959, and 1962, and the AL in 1948.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Checking the sources I have on hand, the change was made at the 1956 winter meetings according to an article in The Sporting News.

If the change was in fact made at the 1956 winter meetings, it wasn't to be in effect for the 1957 season. At least not from what I found: The 9/10/57 Youngstown Vindicator included an article from AP that spelled out the various World Series schedules. The last paragraph was sub-headed "Provisions for Tie" and read as follows:

Provisions also were made in case either of the pennant races ends in a tie. Should the American League race end in a stand-off, there will be a one-game playoff, on Monday Sept. 30, with the series opening on the scheduled date, Oct 2. Should the National League race end in a tie, there will be a best-of-three playoff, starting Monday.

"In that case," said Frick, "the start of the World Series will have to be postponed to either Thursday, Oct. 3 or Friday, Oct. 4. It all depends on which team wins the American League pennant."

Being that the article was from AP, went into significant detail, and quoted Commissioner Frick speaking directly to the schedule ramifications to the World Series if there were ties, I'm inclined to accept it as pretty much fact

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Also, the AL tiebreaking rule is not so clear prior to 1948 according to a checking of the notes I have. I'll post about that later.

In real life, the NL had ties in 1946, 1951, 1959, and 1962, and the AL in 1948.

I have - from you some time ago - that the 1920, 1922 and 1924 AL pennants would've been decided by a best-of-three series. I didn't find anything on potential AL ties in the 30's, probably because there were very few tight races in the AL during that decade, so tiebreakers scenarios were not considered & reported. I do show, however, that the 1940, 1944, and 1945 AL races would've been decided by a one game playoff.

If you have in your notes when - must've been sometime between 1925 and 1939 - the AL switched from 3-gamers to one-gamers, please post

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by thehef

If the change was in fact made at the 1956 winter meetings, it wasn't to be in effect for the 1957 season. At least not from what I found: The 9/10/57 Youngstown Vindicator included an article from AP that spelled out the various World Series schedules . . .

TSN says it was Dec. 1956, and the New York Times reported the same, which is where I first read it, although I don't have a digital copy of the latter's article. I didn't check for possible tie scenarios in 1957 back when I was researching the subject. Either that or I didn't find any articles.

Originally Posted by thehef

I have - from you some time ago - that the 1920, 1922 and 1924 AL pennants would've been decided by a best-of-three series.

Yes. According to the newspaper reports I found:

1920 would have had one game at each team's park and the third game on neutral grounds.
1922 would have had all three games played on neutral grounds, according to the rules that year.
1924 would have had one game at each team's park and the site of the third game determined by coin toss.

Originally Posted by thehef

If you have in your notes when - must've been sometime between 1925 and 1939 - the AL switched from 3-gamers to one-gamers, please post

I can't say for certain, but there is a clue. From the Sept. 25, 1928, New York Times article about a possible tie in the NL. Note the emphasized sentence.

What is the procedure in case of a tie in the pennant race? That question was put to John Arnold Heydler, President of the National League, yesterday, and he answered as follows:

'In case of a tie for the pennant in our league, the Board of Directors would have to arrange for a three-game series to play it off. In the American League I think the rule calls for just a single game to decide the issue. But if we had a tie and an added three-game series to decide the winner, I don't see how we could go through with the World's Series program as already arranged. Probably the start of the series would have to be postponed.'

This suggests the change occurred sometime between 1924 and 1928.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

TSN says it was Dec. 1956, and the New York Times reported the same, which is where I first read it, although I don't have a digital copy of the latter's article. I didn't check for possible tie scenarios in 1957 back when I was researching the subject. Either that or I didn't find any articles.

I'll email you a copy of the AP article I found. It's pretty convincing. Re the change supposedly occurring during the '56 winter meetings, I'm guessing that either...

a) It was voted on during the '56 meetings but not finalized until later - too late for the '57 postseason - maybe due to some bureaucratic delay with updating bylaws or something...

b) It was voted on during the '56 meetings but to take effect for the '58 season and not the '57 season, for some reason...

c) The TSN & NYT somehow reported incorrectly...

One way or the other, the AP's reporting (which I also found in the Calgary Herald, in addition to the Youngstown Vindicator) about the 1957 postseason was, IMO, too detailed & specific to be incorrect...