two-way player question

[thehef]

So if there's a player who has decent stats & ratings as both a pitcher and an outfielder, but OOTP is only seeing him as a pitcher - meaning he's not showing up on the Team > Lineups panel when All Batters is selected as the filter, and is therefore not considered by the AI Bench Coach when selecting lineups, what can be done about this?

I'm not in control of this team. I just want OOTP AI to properly evaluate and use him. I suppose I could go to his strategy page and check the Use as Two-Way Player checkbox, but I'm thinking that OOTP should look at his stats & resulting ratings and already see him as such...

In my experience this could apply to a bunch of players but in this case I am referring to Charles Doyle in 1901. In addition to pitching in 28 games, he had 524 AB's and a .292 average, with 85 games as an outfielder.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by thehef

So if there's a player who has decent stats & ratings as both a pitcher and an outfielder, but OOTP is only seeing him as a pitcher - meaning he's not showing up on the Team > Lineups panel when All Batters is selected as the filter, and is therefore not considered by the AI Bench Coach when selecting lineups, what can be done about this?

I'm not in control of this team. I just want OOTP AI to properly evaluate and use him. I suppose I could go to his strategy page and check the Use as Two-Way Player checkbox, but I'm thinking that OOTP should look at his stats & resulting ratings and already see him as such...

In my experience this could apply to a bunch of players but in this case I am referring to Charles Doyle in 1901. In addition to pitching in 28 games, he had 524 AB's and a .292 average, with 85 games as an outfielder.

Hef does he have defensive ratings as an OF? That seems to be the kicker for this to happen automatically.

I've also found some rudimentary intuition exists with the engine, so if you click on the two-way option it can on occasion open the AI's eyes to his multipositional playing abilities and it will start treating him that way by default. Not always, mind you, but sometimes.

G

[thehef]

Originally Posted by luckymann

Hef does he have defensive ratings as an OF? That seems to be the kicker for this to happen automatically.

Yep, he does. Kinda low experience (45 & 49) for the corner OF spots, but 100 for CF. His Range, Error & Arm are all well above 100...

Originally Posted by luckymann

I've also found some rudimentary intuition exists with the engine, so if you click on the two-way option it can on occasion open the AI's eyes to his multipositional playing abilities and it will start treating him that way by default. Not always, mind you, but sometimes.

G

Certainly willing to try that. But my hope is to not have to manually hunt for all of the guys who should be two-way players and have to edit or otherwise touch them. I'd rather be confident in knowing that OOTP can identify them by their ratings & treat them accordingly. I mean, with the 1901 stuff I'm doing, it's not a huge deal to go through the four teams in the 1901 Calif League. But in some future year with, say, 10 leagues and therefore 60-80 teams and over 1,000 players, well... you get the idea

Thanks!

[luckymann]

No doubt these are the sorts of things I hope are on the table for whenever the next-gen AI is implemented in the game, by which I don't mean ChatGPT but rather a smarter game engine, which is sorely overdue. Roster management, secondary scouting, player interaction are all things I feel need an upgrade.

I'm presuming from what you've said about the 1901 Cali League, the save in question is being driven by your customised MiLBTeams csv? That league doesn't exist in the standard game.

G

[Rain King]

Do you have "Allow two-way players" checked in the League Settings --> General AI Roster Settings area?

[jksander]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Do you have "Allow two-way players" checked in the League Settings --> General AI Roster Settings area?

Came here to ask this ... if it's unchecked, humans can still use two way players but the AI never will (correct?)

[thehef]

Originally Posted by luckymann

No doubt these are the sorts of things I hope are on the table for whenever the next-gen AI is implemented in the game, by which I don't mean ChatGPT but rather a smarter game engine, which is sorely overdue. Roster management, secondary scouting, player interaction are all things I feel need an upgrade.

Not saying I disagree. But the game is already supposed to work for the Ruths & Ohtanis, so given that the long-ago history of the game is filled with these - albeit lesser-impact - types, it should be working now; and apparently it is, just not in all cases? In fact, I seem to recall with some other testing that it recognizes that guys like Buzz Arlett & Lefty O'Doull are two-way... I could be misremembering on a couple of those but pretty sure I've seen several pitchers listed on the Lineups/Batters page because they have decent batting ratings and also have fielding ratings at a position other than pitcher...

Originally Posted by luckymann

I'm presuming from what you've said about the 1901 Cali League, the save in question is being driven by your customised MiLBTeams csv? That league doesn't exist in the standard game.

G

Well, yes and no. The program file that creates your initial game - first season - doesn't read those customized files; the contents of those files are basically embedded in the game-creation program. OOTP only looks at those cvs files for subsequent seasons. IOW, for minors:

- Your initial season: Is created from the OOTP game-creation program file and starts (typically) with a March or April date in the year of that original season.

- Subsequent seasons: Reads from the milbteams.csv, milbleagues.csv, and era_stats_minors.txt files, when the game transitions from the postseason to the offseason... typically sometime in October, right after the World Series (or a longer-season minor league) finishes. So this occurs late in the year prior to year of the upcoming season. (For the majors, it reads from the teams.csv and era_stats.txt files.)

So with that said, I can't get the 1901 minors in the game from those files; I need to wait for the OOTP devs to merge that data into the game-creation program (either that, or start with a season prior to 1901 and move forward to 1901, but for my current purposes, I don't want to do that).

What I'm trying to do in my current test is to create the 1901 California League manually, and then see if - once I transition to the 1901-02 offseason and OOTP reads those custom files - the 1901 and 1902 California leagues and teams will be connected. I know that from 1902 to 1903 it will be, but not sure if I can make it happen for 1901 to 1902... And then what I'm doing with players - which is what prompted the two-way player issue - is just for fun and goofing around while I'm doing this test: Basically trying to set up the four Calif Lg teams' rosters semi-historically...

If that all makes sense

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Do you have "Allow two-way players" checked in the League Settings --> General AI Roster Settings area?

This setting is controlled at the MLB/parent level. It's not there for individual minor leagues. So I assume that it's one of those settings that applies to all of the sub leagues to the parent. And in my case I did not touch it, but it was defaulted to checked/on.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by thehef

Not saying I disagree. But the game is already supposed to work for the Ruths & Ohtanis, so given that the long-ago history of the game is filled with these - albeit lesser-impact - types, it should be working now; and apparently it is, just not in all cases? In fact, I seem to recall with some other testing that it recognizes that guys like Buzz Arlett & Lefty O'Doull are two-way... I could be misremembering on a couple of those but pretty sure I've seen several pitchers listed on the Lineups/Batters page because they have decent batting ratings and also have fielding ratings at a position other than pitcher...


Well, yes and no. The program file that creates your initial game - first season - doesn't read those customized files; the contents of those files are basically embedded in the game-creation program. OOTP only looks at those cvs files for subsequent seasons. IOW, for minors:

- Your initial season: Is created from the OOTP game-creation program file and starts (typically) with a March or April date in the year of that original season.

- Subsequent seasons: Reads from the milbteams.csv, milbleagues.csv, and era_stats_minors.txt files, when the game transitions from the postseason to the offseason... typically sometime in October, right after the World Series (or a longer-season minor league) finishes. So this occurs late in the year prior to year of the upcoming season. (For the majors, it reads from the teams.csv and era_stats.txt files.)

So with that said, I can't get the 1901 minors in the game from those files; I need to wait for the OOTP devs to merge that data into the game-creation program (either that, or start with a season prior to 1901 and move forward to 1901, but for my current purposes, I don't want to do that).

What I'm trying to do in my current test is to create the 1901 California League manually, and then see if - once I transition to the 1901-02 offseason and OOTP reads those custom files - the 1901 and 1902 California leagues and teams will be connected. I know that from 1902 to 1903 it will be, but not sure if I can make it happen for 1901 to 1902... And then what I'm doing with players - which is what prompted the two-way player issue - is just for fun and goofing around while I'm doing this test: Basically trying to set up the four Calif Lg teams' rosters semi-historically...

If that all makes sense

It does. Thanks. I've just got Joe Wood in my Red Sox save and will keep an eye on how it treats him and report back. From memory it does the same as for Ruth. Good-hitting pitcher for a while then F/T OF.