Promotion

Tinkerman · 04-28-2024, 12:20 PM

I've said this before in previous versions, and I'm sure it will annoy someone, but the promotion system sucks. There's just no two ways about it.

For the umpteenth time in my PT history, at least the 5 best teams in the league are in just 2 divisions, they all line up in the playoffs and 3 of them are guaranteed to stay at a level they're too good for.

Seriously, when are you going to switch to promoting based on W/L record (excluding Diamond)?

Sure enough, looks like my 126 wins team is gonna get swept in the DS.

Tinkerman · 04-28-2024, 02:06 PM

Swept, but they were lucky to scrape in anyway...

Stormhound · 04-28-2024, 03:45 PM

I agree that it's no fun to have a great record and get trounced in the playoffs and not get promoted...heck, it's practically a lifestyle, along with Saturday slumps.

But at the same time, they have to recognize playoff success, and they have to make the math work in order to keep all levels properly populated. If you have more people going up, you have to have more people going down, and still have some space in the middle for teams that are good enough to hang at their current level but not quite there to get the playoffs.

I suppose they could make larger leagues, in order to do that, but no matter what they do they're still going to have people upset. I have no idea what kind of algorithm they use to distribute teams, but that's a tough call too (in the division I just barely won at 90-72 this week, 2 other teams made the playoffs; until about midseason the last place team was playing .500!) because...unlike in real life ball...past performance is a very poor indicator of future performance. People finish missions midweek, get a lucky card or two, and suddenly go nuts. Half or more of the teams in a given league have the same core of players (is Chase Utley owning the entire WAR board even still funny enough to be a joke?). Just show me a single non-PT fantasy league where that is allowed.

In the end, PT is largely about luck and money. If you get lucky, especially at the right time, you'll get wins and promotions. If not, you won't. Money will substitute for quite a bit of luck (as witness the combinator purgatory that is tournaments now). Skill is highly overrated (this is my first full year here, I'm staunchly F2P, and I'm going to make Diamond next week...but nobody with sense is going to confuse me with a managing genius). If you can't come to peace with that truth, you're not going to be very content here no matter what happens.

Tinkerman · 04-28-2024, 05:06 PM

It's not complicated. The playoffs are a bad way to decide promotion. Give the winners a cookie, and promote the best teams. I've been playing since PT20, and I've seen this cliched scenario play out way too often.

It makes a mockery of ant-tanking rules if the game does it for you. If I was around next week, I'd be quite happy to still be in bronze with the team I've now got, raking in more pp than in the league above.

Ty Cobb · 04-29-2024, 09:35 AM

One way to help correct this would be to mandate that the top 4 W-L teams are promoted no matter what.

LeeD · 05-02-2024, 01:57 AM

That would be the same thing that Tinkerman is proposing, except for Diamond league. Promote the top four by season W-L and you've eliminated playoff results entirely. Won 110 and lost in the playoffs? Just do like the Dodgers do and add even more firepower to the roster for next season.

Ty Cobb · 05-02-2024, 10:58 PM

You misunderstand me, sir. I meant in addition to the top 4 in playoffs. Start with the 4 playoff teams, and then take the next 4 in terms of W-L as well. At that point, you'd have to lose rather early and often to sandbag the system.

Big_Red_Machine · 05-08-2024, 11:01 AM

I really like the current promotion system. It gives variability to which teams move along which provides more excitement to the playoff scenarios. Similar to real sports where the regular season matters to get you there, but if you don't perform in the playoffs due to a bad streak of luck, matchups, or whatever, then the regular season didn't really matter. Happens all the time in MLB, NFL, NCAA, etc. I've been bitten by it in OOTP but anything to make the game have some variation is a good attribute of the game to me.

Tinkerman · 05-13-2024, 06:05 AM

Those sports you mention... they don't have promotion. Lots of leagues have playoffs to determine all of the promoted teams, but they universally promote the one or two best teams automatically.

04-28-2024, 12:20 PM	#1
Tinkerman All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,938	Promotion I've said this before in previous versions, and I'm sure it will annoy someone, but the promotion system sucks. There's just no two ways about it. For the umpteenth time in my PT history, at least the 5 best teams in the league are in just 2 divisions, they all line up in the playoffs and 3 of them are guaranteed to stay at a level they're too good for. Seriously, when are you going to switch to promoting based on W/L record (excluding Diamond)? Sure enough, looks like my 126 wins team is gonna get swept in the DS. __________________ Last edited by Tinkerman; 04-28-2024 at 01:34 PM.

04-28-2024, 02:06 PM	#2
Tinkerman All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,938	Swept, but they were lucky to scrape in anyway... Attached Images __________________

04-28-2024, 03:45 PM	#3
Stormhound Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2024 Posts: 45	I agree that it's no fun to have a great record and get trounced in the playoffs and not get promoted...heck, it's practically a lifestyle, along with Saturday slumps. But at the same time, they have to recognize playoff success, and they have to make the math work in order to keep all levels properly populated. If you have more people going up, you have to have more people going down, and still have some space in the middle for teams that are good enough to hang at their current level but not quite there to get the playoffs. I suppose they could make larger leagues, in order to do that, but no matter what they do they're still going to have people upset. I have no idea what kind of algorithm they use to distribute teams, but that's a tough call too (in the division I just barely won at 90-72 this week, 2 other teams made the playoffs; until about midseason the last place team was playing .500!) because...unlike in real life ball...past performance is a very poor indicator of future performance. People finish missions midweek, get a lucky card or two, and suddenly go nuts. Half or more of the teams in a given league have the same core of players (is Chase Utley owning the entire WAR board even still funny enough to be a joke?). Just show me a single non-PT fantasy league where that is allowed. In the end, PT is largely about luck and money. If you get lucky, especially at the right time, you'll get wins and promotions. If not, you won't. Money will substitute for quite a bit of luck (as witness the combinator purgatory that is tournaments now). Skill is highly overrated (this is my first full year here, I'm staunchly F2P, and I'm going to make Diamond next week...but nobody with sense is going to confuse me with a managing genius). If you can't come to peace with that truth, you're not going to be very content here no matter what happens. __________________ "If the people don't wanna come out to the ballpark, nobody's gonna stop 'em." - Yogi Berra Don't be part of the problem...be the entire* problem.*

04-28-2024, 05:06 PM	#4
Tinkerman All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,938	It's not complicated. The playoffs are a bad way to decide promotion. Give the winners a cookie, and promote the best teams. I've been playing since PT20, and I've seen this cliched scenario play out way too often. It makes a mockery of ant-tanking rules if the game does it for you. If I was around next week, I'd be quite happy to still be in bronze with the team I've now got, raking in more pp than in the league above. __________________

04-29-2024, 09:35 AM	#5
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,574	One way to help correct this would be to mandate that the top 4 W-L teams are promoted no matter what. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

05-02-2024, 01:57 AM	#6
LeeD All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 727	That would be the same thing that Tinkerman is proposing, except for Diamond league. Promote the top four by season W-L and you've eliminated playoff results entirely. Won 110 and lost in the playoffs? Just do like the Dodgers do and add even more firepower to the roster for next season.

05-02-2024, 10:58 PM	#7
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,574	You misunderstand me, sir. I meant in addition to the top 4 in playoffs. Start with the 4 playoff teams, and then take the next 4 in terms of W-L as well. At that point, you'd have to lose rather early and often to sandbag the system. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

05-08-2024, 11:01 AM	#8
Big_Red_Machine Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 47	Promotion Discussion I really like the current promotion system. It gives variability to which teams move along which provides more excitement to the playoff scenarios. Similar to real sports where the regular season matters to get you there, but if you don't perform in the playoffs due to a bad streak of luck, matchups, or whatever, then the regular season didn't really matter. Happens all the time in MLB, NFL, NCAA, etc. I've been bitten by it in OOTP but anything to make the game have some variation is a good attribute of the game to me. __________________

05-13-2024, 06:05 AM	#9
Tinkerman All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,938	Those sports you mention... they don't have promotion. Lots of leagues have playoffs to determine all of the promoted teams, but they universally promote the one or two best teams automatically. __________________