change in defensive importance?

[chriskelly]

I watched a youtube video on 23, it stated that year to year, the importance of C and 2b defense was way down. Not sure how that was evaluated, defensive WAR maybe? Is it different in 24? was this even true of 23?

[jcard]

It is a good question, and one about which I have had concerns. That is not to say I have drawn any conclusions. Indeed, like arguably too many aspects of OOTP, I have more questions than answers:

1. Change vs. Improvement- Is the game increasingly reliant on such dial-twisting to justify claims the latest version of the game is “new”, in lieu of genuine engine development?

2. Inherent Product Tension- (From thread from last year) If the traditional game and Perfect Team both use the same game engine, it seems that there is a natural tension between the goals of that engine. For the traditional game, the aim is ostensibly to come as close as possible (within the margins of playability) to replicating the real-life game. Perfect Team, however, as a model requires that new winning strategies be cycled- players then have to invest more money to find those strategies (card rosters). At its core, PT has as much to do with baseball as a lottery ticket illustrated with a diamond and having scratch-off places at the four base locations. It is not about simulating the genuine article, it just uses baseball as the motif for its rules-based / strategy-optimization mechanic. If the engine perfectly modeled the real game one year, the developers cannot leave it at that. Players will discover the optimum strategies and pursue them- from what I understand, by the end of a PT year competitive players are all basically fielding the same rosters. The developers have to alter the underlying rules (weightings, interactions, etc.) so that players must devote resources to discovering each year (if not more frequently). Comments by PT players (of whom I am not one) indicated that they immediately noted that a strategy substantially different from that which was optimal last year would be ascendant this year.

[Pelican]

I have not seen any evidence of this in OOTP 24. I don't recall any change in C and 2B between 22 and 23. The catcher framing did enhance the importance of C defense in 23. Not a fan; but a worthwhile experiment. (I am not a fan because what it does is make the strike zone larger by calling obvious balls as strikes due to a crafty catcher moving his glove.)

[jcard]

Originally Posted by Pelican

I have not seen any evidence of this in OOTP 24. I don't recall any change in C and 2B between 22 and 23. The catcher framing did enhance the importance of C defense in 23. Not a fan; but a worthwhile experiment. (I am not a fan because what it does is make the strike zone larger by calling obvious balls as strikes due to a crafty catcher moving his glove.)

It was certainly at least an item of discussion a year ago (i.e., 22 vs. 23). For example:
https://youtu.be/kjUKY3vsuuk

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Pelican

I have not seen any evidence of this in OOTP 24. I don't recall any change in C and 2B between 22 and 23. The catcher framing did enhance the importance of C defense in 23. Not a fan; but a worthwhile experiment. (I am not a fan because what it does is make the strike zone larger by calling obvious balls as strikes due to a crafty catcher moving his glove.)

Are you aware you can turn off framing in your settings? Stats-AI page, Catcher Framing Impact... can be set to "none".

I believe framing was added due to there being real life data to support it? I have mine set to neutral or average (whatever default middle is) and I like it. Occasionally I see a called strike three, on both me and my opposition, and think, "that's not a strike". Look at the pitch location box and it was not in the zone. Another touch of "realism" IMHO.

[Guthrien]

Yea, framing definitely adjusts you can see it in your catcher's stats under the FRM +/-. It seems to tie to catcher ability. A lot of people said C ability was toned down in its impact from 22 to 23, but I didn't play enough 22 to see it clearly.

[chriskelly]

Originally Posted by jcard

It was certainly at least an item of discussion a year ago (i.e., 22 vs. 23). For example:
https://youtu.be/kjUKY3vsuuk

that's the exact video. it basically says SS is still very important, C has lost some importance. CF and 3b are pretty important. but I didn't catch any math

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by chriskelly

that's the exact video. it basically says SS is still very important, C has lost some importance. CF and 3b are pretty important. but I didn't catch any math

There was almost certainly no maths to catch, given the source. You'd be better off listening to a blind man throwing darts to decide which positions have become more or less important.

[MrCell0phane]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Are you aware you can turn off framing in your settings? Stats-AI page, Catcher Framing Impact... can be set to "none".

I believe framing was added due to there being real life data to support it? I have mine set to neutral or average (whatever default middle is) and I like it. Occasionally I see a called strike three, on both me and my opposition, and think, "that's not a strike". Look at the pitch location box and it was not in the zone. Another touch of "realism" IMHO.

It certainly is realistic! You see that kind of crap all of the time