Use pre-calculated modifiers for accuracy. What is this???

jpeters1734 · 05-17-2023, 11:40 PM

I checked the online manual and this option is not mentioned. I know, I know... real shocker. We shouldn't expect descriptions for new options...

Anyone know what this actually does??

koohead · 05-17-2023, 11:56 PM

oh boy. I forsee a whole battery of tests coming to see how this compares to re-calc and auto-calc. It's a 3 dimensional matrix of futility! LOL

thehef · 05-18-2023, 12:00 AM

It's explained by Matt here: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/....php?p=4991482

jpeters1734 · 05-18-2023, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

It's explained by Matt here: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/....php?p=4991482

I am no closer to understanding this lol.

Brad K · 05-18-2023, 08:14 PM

It means if the ratings of the players in a league are higher or lower than the historical year the modifiers will adjust it so expected performance matches the historical year.

Brad K · 05-18-2023, 08:23 PM

My last completed save ran 58 seasons. If after, say, 30 seasons, a number of good pitchers continued pitching past their historical retirement year and remained good pitchers while a number of good hitters had career ending injuries and retired before their historical date, I'd want that save to have lower than historical offense.

However some people look only at the performance versus historical performance and judge the accuracy of OOTP on that without considering other factors. For those people auto calc is the way to go. Those who want the league to perform in line with its talent should use pre-calculated.

jpeters1734 · 05-20-2023, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

My last completed save ran 58 seasons. If after, say, 30 seasons, a number of good pitchers continued pitching past their historical retirement year and remained good pitchers while a number of good hitters had career ending injuries and retired before their historical date, I'd want that save to have lower than historical offense.

However some people look only at the performance versus historical performance and judge the accuracy of OOTP on that without considering other factors. For those people auto calc is the way to go. Those who want the league to perform in line with its talent should use pre-calculated.

I'm still confused. league totals and modifiers is the one thing i just cannot wrap my head around.

Let me ask a different way.

If every team had 8 2001 Barry Bonds in their lineup, which setting would have each version of Barry Bonds hit 73 HRs and which one would suppress his output so that the league total HR does not get surpassed??

Maybe it's a different kind of setting or perhaps it's just not possible. But if every team has 8 barry bonds each one of them should be hitting a crapton of HR

Sweed · 05-21-2023, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I'm still confused. league totals and modifiers is the one thing i just cannot wrap my head around.

Let me ask a different way.

If every team had 8 2001 Barry Bonds in their lineup, which setting would have each version of Barry Bonds hit 73 HRs and which one would suppress his output so that the league total HR does not get surpassed??

Maybe it's a different kind of setting or perhaps it's just not possible. But if every team has 8 barry bonds each one of them should be hitting a crapton of HR

I'll try answering based on what I think you're getting at. I hope I'm not missing your point?

Based on my understanding of OOTP, LT, and LTM's I don't think your "Bonds" league is possible with "normal" league totals.

Think of the League Total as a probable outcome and the League Total Modifier as the thing that produces the outcome, within an acceptable +/-, using the league's roster set.

With that in mind your league of 8*30= 240 "2001 Bonds'" will not have "them" getting a crap ton of HR. Well, that's not quite true, because at least as a group they will, but as individuals they won't. Why? Because a normal league is going to be setup to produce somewhere around 5,000 HR while only having a few very good power hitters, and maybe one guy with an 8. The small group of highly rated power hitters is what allows them to accumulate a large number of HR.

Yes, there is a variety of HR LT dependent on the year selected but the principle is still the same. IE an autocalced league with a LT for HR of 5,000 is going to have a likely hood of producing approx. 5,000 HR with the roster set being used. With a boatload of identically 8 rated power hitters they will each have the same likely hood or getting a dice roll that results in a HR. If each of your Bonds hit 20 HR that would amount to 4800 of your 5000. However those 20 HR they do hit will be a lot compared to the number of HR the rest of the players hit. At least that is the outcome I would expect to see.

If all of your Bonds' hit 70ish you'd be hitting over 17,000 with them alone. Unless you have a LT/LTM for HR of 17,000+ your league won't produce enough HR. While the LT/LTM in combination is not a hard number or limit of a "normal league's" (somewhere around 5,000) HR, it is a probable outcome.

This, I think, is the likely outcome of having an unrealistically rated pool of players in a roster set. It could also be that this extremely power heavy roster set, would break the game? OOTP wouldn't be able to handle it and the extreme ratings would give extreme and unrealistic results over the entire league?

With regard to the original post and the two possible modifiers, auto or pre-calculated, and your post I quoted? I don't think it matters as both are still LT and LTM and will behave in the same way in regard to how they produce results in a league.

Brad K · 05-22-2023, 08:21 PM

I don't have 24 yet (as I commented elsewhere I consider the early released to be for those who want to play the current season) but I hope someone who has 24 will test this.

OOTP wouldn't produce two ways of getting the same result. I believe as stated earlier that the pre calculated modifiers will allow the league to perform a bit better or worse than historical depending on its talent versus historical. However I expect that it does not allow the number of HRs that would be expected from a 30 players are Barry Bonds league. Just a guess.

If by chance a league ends up with better pitchers and poorer hitters than historical I would want it to produce fewer runs. According to what Matt has posted with auto calc that league would be aiming for historical runs even though the talent is different from historical.

I don't understand why someone would want a league to perform as historical when the talent is different. It also might affect the results of strategy

For example, I did a test on 23 where I set every team to never pitch around and to never IBB. It changed the walks by 1%, apparently because of LTM insisting on historical walks.

I understand many (most?) historical players judge OOTP on its ability to produce historical results. Auto calc gives that to them. But I consider wanting historical totals regardless of inputs (talent, strategy) is fine for those watching AI play itself but not the right thing for a GM trying to improve his team with different strategy or different players than played historically.

thehef · 05-25-2023, 02:47 PM

I may be off base here, but the way I interpret Matt's explanation is sort of like...

- the pre-calculated ratings are like a house
- the auto-calc based upon rosters is like furniture sitting in a moving van, about to be unloaded

If you choose to use pre-calculated ratings, then you are telling the moving guys to fit the furniture into the house - even if there's a bit too much or too little furniture for the house; the priority is the house and one way or another, the furniture will need to fit into it. But if you choose to use auto-calc then you are first having some contractors knock down a few walls, etc., or otherwise reconfigure the house so the moving guys can better fit the furniture into the house; the priority is the furniture.

Again, I could be way off, but that's how I interpret that...

So if my interpretation is close and the gamer is using settings for an ideal historical replay, then there shouldn't be much difference between either choice because all players would be rated on their actual real-life stats - which should be the source of the league totals. However, if the gamer is using settings that include development, 3- or 5-year (or no) recalc, adding in fictional players, etc., then this decision - which modifiers to use - is crucial, as the pre-calc option would base league totals on that season (whatever season you are in)'s actual league totals, whereas the auto-calc/rosters option would base league totals on the what the actual player-makeup of your league is.

So if you've got 10 guys capable of hitting 50+ homers but you are in 1910, the pre-calc option is going to compress each of those guys' HR ratings so they fit within an MLB that is only targeted to hit 391 HR's (the actual MLB total that year). IOW, those 10 guys are going to hit more homers than everyone else, but there's no way that they will hit anywhere near 50 because - not counting your 10 mashers - you'd already have around 140 guys who are rated to hit a few homers, and that itself would get you in the neighborhood of 390 total HR's... But if in that same scenario you choose the auto-calc option, it will see that you have 10 guys whose HR totals project to around 500 HR's (10 guys x 50 HR's each) so it will maybe calc HR modifiers for your league to hit a total of around 800-900 HR's...

Something like that. Maybe?

05-17-2023, 11:40 PM	#1
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,221	Use pre-calculated modifiers for accuracy. What is this??? I checked the online manual and this option is not mentioned. I know, I know... real shocker. We shouldn't expect descriptions for new options... Anyone know what this actually does?? Attached Images __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

05-17-2023, 11:56 PM	#2
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,211	oh boy. I forsee a whole battery of tests coming to see how this compares to re-calc and auto-calc. It's a 3 dimensional matrix of futility! LOL __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

05-18-2023, 12:00 AM	#3
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	It's explained by Matt here: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/....php?p=4991482

05-18-2023, 08:14 PM	#5
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	It means if the ratings of the players in a league are higher or lower than the historical year the modifiers will adjust it so expected performance matches the historical year.

05-18-2023, 08:23 PM	#6
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	My last completed save ran 58 seasons. If after, say, 30 seasons, a number of good pitchers continued pitching past their historical retirement year and remained good pitchers while a number of good hitters had career ending injuries and retired before their historical date, I'd want that save to have lower than historical offense. However some people look only at the performance versus historical performance and judge the accuracy of OOTP on that without considering other factors. For those people auto calc is the way to go. Those who want the league to perform in line with its talent should use pre-calculated.

05-22-2023, 08:21 PM	#9
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	I don't have 24 yet (as I commented elsewhere I consider the early released to be for those who want to play the current season) but I hope someone who has 24 will test this. OOTP wouldn't produce two ways of getting the same result. I believe as stated earlier that the pre calculated modifiers will allow the league to perform a bit better or worse than historical depending on its talent versus historical. However I expect that it does not allow the number of HRs that would be expected from a 30 players are Barry Bonds league. Just a guess. If by chance a league ends up with better pitchers and poorer hitters than historical I would want it to produce fewer runs. According to what Matt has posted with auto calc that league would be aiming for historical runs even though the talent is different from historical. I don't understand why someone would want a league to perform as historical when the talent is different. It also might affect the results of strategy For example, I did a test on 23 where I set every team to never pitch around and to never IBB. It changed the walks by 1%, apparently because of LTM insisting on historical walks. I understand many (most?) historical players judge OOTP on its ability to produce historical results. Auto calc gives that to them. But I consider wanting historical totals regardless of inputs (talent, strategy) is fine for those watching AI play itself but not the right thing for a GM trying to improve his team with different strategy or different players than played historically.

05-25-2023, 02:47 PM	#10
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	I may be off base here, but the way I interpret Matt's explanation is sort of like... - the pre-calculated ratings are like a house - the auto-calc based upon rosters is like furniture sitting in a moving van, about to be unloaded If you choose to use pre-calculated ratings, then you are telling the moving guys to fit the furniture into the house - even if there's a bit too much or too little furniture for the house; the priority is the house and one way or another, the furniture will need to fit into it. But if you choose to use auto-calc then you are first having some contractors knock down a few walls, etc., or otherwise reconfigure the house so the moving guys can better fit the furniture into the house; the priority is the furniture. Again, I could be way off, but that's how I interpret that... So if my interpretation is close and the gamer is using settings for an ideal historical replay, then there shouldn't be much difference between either choice because all players would be rated on their actual real-life stats - which should be the source of the league totals. However, if the gamer is using settings that include development, 3- or 5-year (or no) recalc, adding in fictional players, etc., then this decision - which modifiers to use - is crucial, as the pre-calc option would base league totals on that season (whatever season you are in)'s actual league totals, whereas the auto-calc/rosters option would base league totals on the what the actual player-makeup of your league is. So if you've got 10 guys capable of hitting 50+ homers but you are in 1910, the pre-calc option is going to compress each of those guys' HR ratings so they fit within an MLB that is only targeted to hit 391 HR's (the actual MLB total that year). IOW, those 10 guys are going to hit more homers than everyone else, but there's no way that they will hit anywhere near 50 because - not counting your 10 mashers - you'd already have around 140 guys who are rated to hit a few homers, and that itself would get you in the neighborhood of 390 total HR's... But if in that same scenario you choose the auto-calc option, it will see that you have 10 guys whose HR totals project to around 500 HR's (10 guys x 50 HR's each) so it will maybe calc HR modifiers for your league to hit a total of around 800-900 HR's... Something like that. Maybe?