Teams Waiving Good Cheap Players

[PsychaCola]

Hey all, I was wondering if anyone playing the beta has encountered teams waiving people they definitely should not be. For example:

The Twins putting Royce Lewis and the Tigers putting Tarik Skubal on irrevocable waivers at the same time in 2023 when they are both on minor league contracts.

[kschull10]

Royce Lewis was waived in my test save as well…thought it was a little out there too

[PSUColonel]

what is the AI evaluation setting?

EDIT: If they are the default (30/50/15/5) I would suggest this may illustrate the need for much more weight given to ratings.

[PsychaCola]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

what is the AI evaluation setting?

EDIT: If they are the default (30/50/15/5) I would suggest this may illustrate the need for much more weight given to ratings.

Yeah, it was set to default. I guess I will try out 40/45/10/5 and see if it happens with any other weird players. I play in commish mode so it's an easy fix, but I wanted to document it in case there was something buggy about those teams/players.

[Guthrien]

They're waiving them after coming off of the injury list, both Skubal and Royce. Definitely a bug. It could be weight, in the choice of who to protect after injury, but I think it's just broken roster management AI.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Guthrien

They're waiving them after coming off of the injury list, both Skubal and Royce. Definitely a bug.

ok..in this case, it sounds like a potential problem with the AI logic? (bug)

EDIT: I have reported this as a bug

[Charlie Hough]

I haven't tested for this in OOTP 24 yet, but AI behavior with waivers was definitely a major issue in OOTP 23. In every season of every saved game where teams had full minors, there would be numerous bad waiver moves by the AI as it attempted to promote and demote players. The AI would often waive and attempt to demote players who had better ratings and stats than the players they were promoting in their place, and the waived players' salaries were quite low, so it wasn't for financial reasons. AI teams were losing quite a few of these players to waiver claims by other clubs.

In a couple of historical games, two of the top young shortstops in baseball were waived. In one case, I had to lock two players on an AI team's MLB roster because it was insisting on waiving two of its best young players for no discernible reason.

[Lukas Berger]

The Lewis/Skubal issue from the initial post should be fixed now.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

I haven't tested for this in OOTP 24 yet, but AI behavior with waivers was definitely a major issue in OOTP 23. In every season of every saved game where teams had full minors, there would be numerous bad waiver moves by the AI as it attempted to promote and demote players. The AI would often waive and attempt to demote players who had better ratings and stats than the players they were promoting in their place, and the waived players' salaries were quite low, so it wasn't for financial reasons. AI teams were losing quite a few of these players to waiver claims by other clubs.

In a couple of historical games, two of the top young shortstops in baseball were waived. In one case, I had to lock two players on an AI team's MLB roster because it was insisting on waiving two of its best young players for no discernible reason.

I have not really had these issues. I always used the default 65/20/10/5 AI evaluation. and even had roster limits that were as true to RL as OOTP will allow. 28/28/30/30/35/35 Service limits of 0/0/5/4/3/3/3.

I wonder why it is an issue for some people, and not others. There must be some variable that changes things.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

The Lewis/Skubal issue from the initial post should be fixed now.

Great news..thanks

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I have not really had these issues. I always used the default 65/20/10/5 AI evaluation. and even had roster limits that were as true to RL as OOTP will allow. 28/28/30/30/35/35 Service limits of 0/0/5/4/3/3/3.

I wonder why it is an issue for some people, and not others. There must be some variable that changes things.

The default talent evaluation numbers are 30/50/15/5 these days, but I never use those. I use 50/30/15/5 or 55/30/10/5 for AI evaluation. But the AI seems to ignore ratings and stats in many of these waiver moves anyway, so that can't explain them. If you're waiving a player whose ratings and current stats are both better than the player you're going to promote as a replacement, then that only leaves previous season stats or stats from two seasons ago, and those only have 20% maximum total weight in my games.

I'll take a closer to look to see if that's a possible cause, but in some of the cases that come to mind, it isn't. I can recall cases where stats from one and two seasons ago weren't significantly different either. However, since some of these are minor leaguers being promoted in exchange for waiving an MLB veteran, maybe the AI is not accounting for league level. For example, maybe it's evaluating someone's class AA stats from the previous season and two years ago better than someone else's MLB stats from that same time period.

By the way, I leave the roster sizes and limits to the defaults for whatever era or season it happens to be. However, as a human GM, I'm dealing with the same limits, and I rarely have to waive players. When I do, they are typically cases where the AI doesn't claim the players because their ratings aren't really any better than other players they already have, or there is a potential age or salary issue that discourages a claim.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

The default talent evaluation numbers are 30/50/15/5 these days, but I never use those. I use 50/30/15/5 or 55/30/10/5 for AI evaluation. But the AI seems to ignore ratings and stats in many of these waiver moves anyway, so that can't explain them. If you're waiving a player whose ratings and current stats are both better than the player you're going to promote as a replacement, then that only leaves previous season stats or stats from two seasons ago, and those only have 20% maximum total weight in my games.

I'll take a closer to look to see if that's a possible cause, but in some of the cases that come to mind, it isn't. I can recall cases where stats from one and two seasons ago weren't significantly different either. However, since some of these are minor leaguers being promoted in exchange for waiving an MLB veteran, maybe the AI is not accounting for league level. For example, maybe it's evaluating someone's class AA stats from the previous season and two years ago better than someone else's MLB stats from that same time period.

By the way, I leave the roster sizes and limits to the defaults for whatever era or season it happens to be. However, as a human GM, I'm dealing with the same limits, and I rarely have to waive players. When I do, they are typically cases where the AI doesn't claim the players because their ratings aren't really any better than other players they already have, or there is a potential age or salary issue that discourages a claim.

Interesting…to me it seems like it may be an underlying issue with the AI logic that we as users really cannot compensate for. I suppose it’s just luck as to whether or not it affects different users?? I’m not sure, but I don’t think there is much we can do with settings if this is the case.

[Pdubya64]

I wonder if we are back to another case of roster limits or thrash like we had a few versions ago guys?
Remember that? It would regularly move players up and down and if memory serves it was due to AI roster limits being tight and we ended up saying you could sort of fix it by giving the AI another 2 or so spots to calm down the thrash.

Maybe it is back in some form or another, or the new rules?