Pirates Play Moneyball 1951 - ????

Brad K · 06-19-2021, 07:31 AM

I've been a hobby writer for 20+ years (a product of Usenet) and so I thought I'd write a bit (a very little bit) about my current game. It involves taking the Pirates from 1951 - ???? with their historical rookies and see what can be done without spending money.

While I'm inspired by the postings done by luckymann, I intend nothing to the extent of what he does Weekly? No way? Monthly? Nuh Uh. Annual? On occasion. When I feel like writing something? Yea, that's it.. In fact, my first post on the progress of the team, which will follow, is of the 1959 Decade Award Banquet. I wrote it for my cousin who is a huge Pirate fan. Long ago she was a major influence in my interest.

Anyway, historical rookies, trading hard, normal scouting accuracy, 3 year recal no weight, dev on, TCR 100, batter aging .85, Arb at 3 year, free agency at 6, minor league option years on, everything else I can think of default. If wondering just ask.

1951 - 1959 the Pirates payroll has average 14 out of 16 teams. Here's the team record so far.

Brad K · 06-19-2021, 07:40 AM

Banquet Honors Decade's Best Pirates

October 21 1959
disAssociated Press
Pittsburgh, Penn

The 1959 baseball season is over but there was one last baseball event in Pittsburgh on October 20. The Terrace Room restaurant at the William Penn Hotel was the location of a banquet honoring the best Pirates of the 50s.

The obvious choice for Pitcher of the Decade was two time Cy Young Award winner Connie Johnson. A late bloomer who didn't reach the majors until age 32, Johnson is the Pirates all time leader in ERA and winning percentage.

The oldest player on the team at age 36, Johnson says he still has gas in the tank. "I know I won't be here accepting the 60s award" said Johnson, "but there are still a lot of wins in this right arm." While handing Johnson the plaque, Bob Prince insisted shaking Johnson's left hand saying he didn't want to knock loose any wins.

Gus Bell was named Player of the Decade. Bell has been with the team since the league's first year in 1951 and is the Pirates all time leader in games, at bats, singles, doubles, and triples. He has hit with power, owner of five of the Pirates top ten all time seasons in slugging percentage.

In the early years of the franchise Bell was one of the few bright spots on a team that had few fans and fewer wins. "Baseball has always been fun for me" said Bell. "Its been more fun the last few years when we've been in contention."

After a rough first half of the decade, the Pirates have two consecutive second place finishes to their credit. "I'm proud of what these players and their team mates have accomplished" said General Manager Anne Bonny.

Connie Johnson, Gus Bell, Anne Bonny

luckymann · 06-21-2021, 05:44 AM

Subscribed! See you in 60 years or so my friend. You've done well so far on the proverbial shoestring, here's to some Rings!

Brad K · 06-21-2021, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymann

Subscribed! See you in 60 years or so my friend. You've done well so far on the proverbial shoestring, here's to some Rings!

I've had some good fortune and nothing really bad has happened. When everyone else was wanting to bail out of a bad team, Gus Bell and Frank Thomas were willing to sign 5 year deals. Being offered Connie Johnson in a trade and then having him do much better than real life was really cool.

luckymann · 06-21-2021, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

I've had some good fortune and nothing really bad has happened. When everyone else was wanting to bail out of a bad team, Gus Bell and Frank Thomas were willing to sign 5 year deals. Being offered Connie Johnson in a trade and then having him do much better than real life was really cool.

It's a nice little trend you've got forming over those last few years - playoffs beckon my friend!

G

Brad K · 06-21-2021, 07:35 PM

Frank Thomas Finished As A Pirate?

Oct 10 1962
Washington Observer
Pittsburgh Penn

The career of the only Pirate to play every year from their inception in 1951 may be over. The Observer has learned the Pirates have declined to exercise Frank Thomas' contract option for 1963.

Thomas is a four time All Star and led the National League in home runs in 1959 with 36. He is the Pirates' all time leader in Games Played, At Bats, Runs, Total Bases, Home Runs, and RBIs.

In recent years Thomas has mostly played third base although not a stand out fielder there. Now the Pirates consider Bob Bailey as their third baseman of the future and the competition at Thomas' other positions, first base and left field, is strong.

Thomas saw little playing time in 62 after losing the job at third base in Spring Training. Dick Stuart started 158 games at first base and led Major League Baseball with 47 home runs. Left fielder Felipe Alou started 153 games and led the National league in Runs Scored.

While he functioned as a backup for these positions in 62, the Pirates decision indicates they believe that role does not exist for him in 63. AAA players Donn Clendenon and Willie Stargell should be major league ready next year. Each can play either first base or left field. And Joe Christopher will reprise his 62 role as a backup corner outfielder.

Thomas remains a capable player and is likely to sign with another team. Although unconfirmed, rumor is that Thomas' contract buyout cost the Pirates $10,000. "It would be super strange to be paid not to play" he said. Pirates GM Anne Bonny declined comment on the Thomas' situation.

Frank Thomas, Joe Christopher

luckymann · 06-22-2021, 05:58 AM

Hoping he signs with an AL team, it'll kill you to have to face him.

Brad K · 06-23-2021, 05:46 PM

Success? Yes And Maybe

Oct 8 1963

The Pittsburgh Post Gazette Editorial Board

Most experts had the Pirates figured to fall from second place last year to middle of the pack this year after trading center fielder Bill Virdon and losing shortstop Dick Groat to free agency. Yet when the dust on the diamonds settled, the Pirates had repeated last years second place finish and set their franchise attendance record.

Comparing center fielders, in Houston, Virdon didn't play any better than Bobby Del Greco did in Pittsburgh. But shortstop was a different story. While Groat played 158 games and hit .299 in Boston, the Pirates held tryouts at shortstop all year. In aggregate the Trio Of Applicants hit a mere .195, somewhat under a Line to be Named Later.

Keeping Groat may have been enough to get the five extra wins the Bucs needed to finish first. But the price to do that - Boston is paying him $194,000 a year until he's 37 years old - should choke even an unreasonable Pirate fan.

Still the Pirates need to do something to push over the top. The team has five second place finishes and one third place finish in the last six years. During that span the Redlegs have won three pennants, the Dodgers two, and the Braves one. And yet the Pirates lead them all with 550 wins in those six years.

The last few years must seem like a miracle to the fans who followed the team in the early 50s. But now, its to the point second place isn't enough.

Dick Groat, Bill Virdon, Bobby Del Greco

Brad K · 06-23-2021, 08:01 PM

Standings relating to "editorial" post.

luckymann · 06-23-2021, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Standings relating to "editorial" post.

They're a couple tough beats there in '62 and '63 bud, hopefully you find the missing piece. High contact middle infielder with a bit of pop?

Brad K · 06-23-2021, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymann

They're a couple tough beats there in '62 and '63 bud, hopefully you find the missing piece. High contact middle infielder with a bit of pop?

Would have to grow one. Groat got a quarter of my payroll without the pop.

luckymann · 06-23-2021, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Would have to grow one. Groat got a quarter of my payroll without the pop.

Off we go a-unicorn-hunting...

Brad K · 06-24-2021, 01:29 PM

When I looked at most games played by position 51 - 63 I was a bit surprised how many are historical Pirates. Some positions like C not many but others were 13 years of historical Pirates.

Real Pirates in 13 years.

C 3 Real McCullough, Burgess Shepard
1B 12 Non Pirate Collins
2B 13
3B 12 Non Pirate Johnson
SS 12 Non Pirate Tracewski
LF 10 Non Pirate Felipe Alou
CF 13
RF 13

Brad K · 06-24-2021, 07:40 PM

Is A Pivot To Youth The Solution?

April 9 1964
The Pittsburgh Press
Bradenton Fla

With the Pirates breaking Spring Training camp after today's game and heading north, we'll soon see results of the off season changes. The Pirates, who have won the most games in the National League over the last six years, are still seeking their first pennant.

Optimists see the off season moves as a slight pivot toward youth with the added advantage of fixing a serious problem at Shortstop. And after last years second place finish despite horrendous play at Shortstop, they see an improvement there as the path to the Pennant. Those less optimistic fear the off season moves were more about cost cutting than competitiveness.

First Baseman Dick Stuart, who will be a free agent after this season was traded for Shortstop Leo Cardenas and two "maybe they'll make the bigs" minor leaguers, Shortstop Tommy Helms and Reliever Mike Cuellar. Donn Clendennon will take Stuart's place at First.

Harder to justify is the decision to let three time All Star Catcher Earl Battey leave via free agency. Although his replacement, Jim Pagliaroni, is three years younger and highly regarded, in the same free agent market as Battey he commanded only about 60% of Battey's salary. Hopefully the Pirates got a rare bargain in the free agent market.

This year the experts are predicting a third place finish for the Pirates, same as last year when the Pirates finished second. Perhaps this year the experts will under rate the Pirates by two positions instead of only one.

Donn Clendennon, Leo Cardenas, Jim Pagliaroni

luckymann · 06-24-2021, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Is A Pivot To Youth The Solution?

April 9 1964
The Pittsburgh Press
Bradenton Fla

With the Pirates breaking Spring Training camp after today's game and heading north, we'll soon see results of the off season changes. The Pirates, who have won the most games in the National League over the last six years, are still seeking their first pennant.

Optimists see the off season moves as a slight pivot toward youth with the added advantage of fixing a serious problem at Shortstop. And after last years second place finish despite horrendous play at Shortstop, they see an improvement there as the path to the Pennant. Those less optimistic fear the off season moves were more about cost cutting than competitiveness.

First Baseman Dick Stuart, who will be a free agent after this season was traded for Shortstop Leo Cardenas and two "maybe they'll make the bigs" minor leaguers, Shortstop Tommy Helms and Reliever Mike Cuellar. Donn Clendennon will take Stuart's place at First.

Harder to justify is the decision to let three time All Star Catcher Earl Battey leave via free agency. Although his replacement, Jim Pagliaroni, is three years younger and highly regarded, in the same free agent market as Battey he commanded only about 60% of Battey's salary. Hopefully the Pirates got a rare bargain in the free agent market.

This year the experts are predicting a third place finish for the Pirates, same as last year when the Pirates finished second. Perhaps this year the experts will under rate the Pirates by two positions instead of only one.

Donn Clendennon, Leo Cardenas, Jim Pagliaroni

Go Bucs!

Brad K · 06-24-2021, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

While Groat played 158 games and hit .299 in Boston, the Pirates held tryouts at shortstop all year. In aggregate the Trio Of Applicants hit a mere .195, somewhat under a Line to be Named Later.

Hmm... I guess I shouldn't refer to Mario Mendoza before his time*.

*that's from a ad campaign for wine

Brad K · 06-24-2021, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymann

Go Bucs!

Thank you for your support!!!

Next time you attend a game remember to enter our long distance contest. The fan who traveled the farthest wins a shopping spree at Giant Eagle.

"Its really great" said recent winner Elda Kerbeckivaneski of Steubenville Oh.

luckymann · 06-24-2021, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Hmm... I guess I shouldn't refer to Mario Mendoza before his time*.

*that's from a ad campaign for wine

If one can't astrally project oneself to one's heart's desires in the course of a baseball sim, then I really don't see the point...

luckymann · 06-24-2021, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Thank you for your support!!!

Next time you attend a game remember to enter our long distance contest. The fan who traveled the farthest wins a shopping spree at Giant Eagle.

"Its really great" said recent winner Elda Kerbeckivaneski of Steubenville Oh.

Does "being there in spirit" count?

Brad K · 06-24-2021, 09:00 PM

Sure. We're all in a virtual world here where we're anywhere we want.

06-19-2021, 07:31 AM	#1
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Pirates Play Moneyball 1951 - ???? I've been a hobby writer for 20+ years (a product of Usenet) and so I thought I'd write a bit (a very little bit) about my current game. It involves taking the Pirates from 1951 - ???? with their historical rookies and see what can be done without spending money. While I'm inspired by the postings done by luckymann, I intend nothing to the extent of what he does Weekly? No way? Monthly? Nuh Uh. Annual? On occasion. When I feel like writing something? Yea, that's it.. In fact, my first post on the progress of the team, which will follow, is of the 1959 Decade Award Banquet. I wrote it for my cousin who is a huge Pirate fan. Long ago she was a major influence in my interest. Anyway, historical rookies, trading hard, normal scouting accuracy, 3 year recal no weight, dev on, TCR 100, batter aging .85, Arb at 3 year, free agency at 6, minor league option years on, everything else I can think of default. If wondering just ask. 1951 - 1959 the Pirates payroll has average 14 out of 16 teams. Here's the team record so far. Attached Images Last edited by Brad K; 06-19-2021 at 07:35 AM.

06-19-2021, 07:40 AM	#2
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Banquet Honors Decade's Best Pirates October 21 1959 disAssociated Press Pittsburgh, Penn The 1959 baseball season is over but there was one last baseball event in Pittsburgh on October 20. The Terrace Room restaurant at the William Penn Hotel was the location of a banquet honoring the best Pirates of the 50s. The obvious choice for Pitcher of the Decade was two time Cy Young Award winner Connie Johnson. A late bloomer who didn't reach the majors until age 32, Johnson is the Pirates all time leader in ERA and winning percentage. The oldest player on the team at age 36, Johnson says he still has gas in the tank. "I know I won't be here accepting the 60s award" said Johnson, "but there are still a lot of wins in this right arm." While handing Johnson the plaque, Bob Prince insisted shaking Johnson's left hand saying he didn't want to knock loose any wins. Gus Bell was named Player of the Decade. Bell has been with the team since the league's first year in 1951 and is the Pirates all time leader in games, at bats, singles, doubles, and triples. He has hit with power, owner of five of the Pirates top ten all time seasons in slugging percentage. In the early years of the franchise Bell was one of the few bright spots on a team that had few fans and fewer wins. "Baseball has always been fun for me" said Bell. "Its been more fun the last few years when we've been in contention." After a rough first half of the decade, the Pirates have two consecutive second place finishes to their credit. "I'm proud of what these players and their team mates have accomplished" said General Manager Anne Bonny. Connie Johnson, Gus Bell, Anne Bonny Attached Images

06-21-2021, 05:44 AM	#3
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 12,973	Subscribed! See you in 60 years or so my friend. You've done well so far on the proverbial shoestring, here's to some Rings! __________________ HISTORICAL DO-OVERS A'S RED SOX DODGERS CUSTOM SAVES ECLIPSE LEAGUE MOON SHOT LEAGUE EVERYMAN LEAGUE GULF LEAGUE USBA

06-21-2021, 07:35 PM	#6
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Frank Thomas Finished As A Pirate? Oct 10 1962 Washington Observer Pittsburgh Penn The career of the only Pirate to play every year from their inception in 1951 may be over. The Observer has learned the Pirates have declined to exercise Frank Thomas' contract option for 1963. Thomas is a four time All Star and led the National League in home runs in 1959 with 36. He is the Pirates' all time leader in Games Played, At Bats, Runs, Total Bases, Home Runs, and RBIs. In recent years Thomas has mostly played third base although not a stand out fielder there. Now the Pirates consider Bob Bailey as their third baseman of the future and the competition at Thomas' other positions, first base and left field, is strong. Thomas saw little playing time in 62 after losing the job at third base in Spring Training. Dick Stuart started 158 games at first base and led Major League Baseball with 47 home runs. Left fielder Felipe Alou started 153 games and led the National league in Runs Scored. While he functioned as a backup for these positions in 62, the Pirates decision indicates they believe that role does not exist for him in 63. AAA players Donn Clendenon and Willie Stargell should be major league ready next year. Each can play either first base or left field. And Joe Christopher will reprise his 62 role as a backup corner outfielder. Thomas remains a capable player and is likely to sign with another team. Although unconfirmed, rumor is that Thomas' contract buyout cost the Pirates $10,000. "It would be super strange to be paid not to play" he said. Pirates GM Anne Bonny declined comment on the Thomas' situation. Frank Thomas, Joe Christopher Attached Images

06-22-2021, 05:58 AM	#7
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 12,973	Hoping he signs with an AL team, it'll kill you to have to face him. __________________ HISTORICAL DO-OVERS A'S RED SOX DODGERS CUSTOM SAVES ECLIPSE LEAGUE MOON SHOT LEAGUE EVERYMAN LEAGUE GULF LEAGUE USBA

06-23-2021, 05:46 PM	#8
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Success? Yes And Maybe Oct 8 1963 The Pittsburgh Post Gazette Editorial Board Most experts had the Pirates figured to fall from second place last year to middle of the pack this year after trading center fielder Bill Virdon and losing shortstop Dick Groat to free agency. Yet when the dust on the diamonds settled, the Pirates had repeated last years second place finish and set their franchise attendance record. Comparing center fielders, in Houston, Virdon didn't play any better than Bobby Del Greco did in Pittsburgh. But shortstop was a different story. While Groat played 158 games and hit .299 in Boston, the Pirates held tryouts at shortstop all year. In aggregate the Trio Of Applicants hit a mere .195, somewhat under a Line to be Named Later. Keeping Groat may have been enough to get the five extra wins the Bucs needed to finish first. But the price to do that - Boston is paying him $194,000 a year until he's 37 years old - should choke even an unreasonable Pirate fan. Still the Pirates need to do something to push over the top. The team has five second place finishes and one third place finish in the last six years. During that span the Redlegs have won three pennants, the Dodgers two, and the Braves one. And yet the Pirates lead them all with 550 wins in those six years. The last few years must seem like a miracle to the fans who followed the team in the early 50s. But now, its to the point second place isn't enough. Dick Groat, Bill Virdon, Bobby Del Greco Attached Images

06-23-2021, 08:01 PM	#9
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Standings relating to "editorial" post. Attached Images

06-24-2021, 01:29 PM	#13
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	When I looked at most games played by position 51 - 63 I was a bit surprised how many are historical Pirates. Some positions like C not many but others were 13 years of historical Pirates. Real Pirates in 13 years. C 3 Real McCullough, Burgess Shepard 1B 12 Non Pirate Collins 2B 13 3B 12 Non Pirate Johnson SS 12 Non Pirate Tracewski LF 10 Non Pirate Felipe Alou CF 13 RF 13 Attached Images

06-24-2021, 07:40 PM	#14
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Is A Pivot To Youth The Solution? April 9 1964 The Pittsburgh Press Bradenton Fla With the Pirates breaking Spring Training camp after today's game and heading north, we'll soon see results of the off season changes. The Pirates, who have won the most games in the National League over the last six years, are still seeking their first pennant. Optimists see the off season moves as a slight pivot toward youth with the added advantage of fixing a serious problem at Shortstop. And after last years second place finish despite horrendous play at Shortstop, they see an improvement there as the path to the Pennant. Those less optimistic fear the off season moves were more about cost cutting than competitiveness. First Baseman Dick Stuart, who will be a free agent after this season was traded for Shortstop Leo Cardenas and two "maybe they'll make the bigs" minor leaguers, Shortstop Tommy Helms and Reliever Mike Cuellar. Donn Clendennon will take Stuart's place at First. Harder to justify is the decision to let three time All Star Catcher Earl Battey leave via free agency. Although his replacement, Jim Pagliaroni, is three years younger and highly regarded, in the same free agent market as Battey he commanded only about 60% of Battey's salary. Hopefully the Pirates got a rare bargain in the free agent market. This year the experts are predicting a third place finish for the Pirates, same as last year when the Pirates finished second. Perhaps this year the experts will under rate the Pirates by two positions instead of only one. Donn Clendennon, Leo Cardenas, Jim Pagliaroni Attached Images

06-24-2021, 09:00 PM	#20
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,606 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Sure. We're all in a virtual world here where we're anywhere we want.