Spring Training Concept Idea

dhennes1 · 08-25-2022, 01:09 AM

Let me preface this by saying I'm new here. So, this may be frowned upon or dismissed. But, I'm currently in my 2025 season. I play 2 games of every series. So, it takes me awhile to get through a season. But, this previous offseason, a 'wish list' idea kept nagging at me and wanted to get others thoughts on it.

A lot of spring training (and arguably a decent amount of minor league activity) isn't about generating stats. Other than knocking off rust, typically teams have guys working on specific things for improvement.

So, my idea was that you would be able to identify a certain number of guys in ST for your coaching staff to work closely with on specific skills. Example: You've got a great pitcher who struggles with command. Set a goal for him to work with the pitching coach to focus on command during ST.

The number of coaching tasks/players could depend on the coach ability. I'm not proposing this for the entire roster. But say a highly skilled coach can focus on 3-4 guys during ST.

The player's advancement could depend on things like work ethic, adaptability, age, etc. There could even be varying levels of focus (high, normal, low) that would potentially cause regression in other areas. The coach relationships could also factor into that equation. That same pitcher may lose some movement or stuff at the expense of gaining some control. Then there would also have to be some randomization factor involved as well.

Just an idea that I don't think is THAT far fetched from what occurs in "real life". Feel free to tear it apart.

mytreds · 08-25-2022, 02:42 AM

The game definitely needs a mechanic that FM has had for a long time- the ability to have players focus on one of their abilities, to raise it slightly over the course of a season. Would really open up a lot of possibilities.

itsmb8 · 08-25-2022, 02:46 AM

This game needs to lean hard on building up the management part of the game instead of just staying a simulator.

LansdowneSt · 08-25-2022, 09:34 AM

I'm not going to tear it apart

... but (and you could feel the "but" coming, no?), the counterpoint is that I have players with potential to realize, coaches to coax it out of them, personality traits that impact development, playing time to distribute for it to get done (aside from the backfields in the background), scouts to try and discern it, so why do I need to micromanage this? When I get the report at the end of Spring Training and I see what went up and what went down, I see the net of all that - including the things you mention, even if I didn't specifically set them. That is, Ricky Vaughn doesn't need me to "tell" him to work on his command. All the factors I referenced (and probably more) net out a post-Spring Training command result for The Wild Thing that I go forward into the season with. I think adding what you are seeking would be a boost of .00001% to the algorithm while adding a lot of code to get it, code that could go sideways with unintended consequences and eat up a lot of developer time to create.

So, that's the counterpoint.

md40022 · 08-25-2022, 10:51 AM

I actually think this is a good idea. You always hear about guys working on something new in spring training every year; whether it be a new position, a new pitch, and new release point to help pitch break and/or control, etc. etc.

Maybe a good coach can be assigned 4 or 5 training projects in a spring training as where an okay coach can do 2 or 3 projects. I don't think there's much micro managing there at all if you're just choosing a handful of players/skills at the start of ST..... I'd be a fan of something like that.

Pelican · 08-25-2022, 11:01 AM

Like this idea. And the game already has tiptoed in this specialized direction. You can direct your scout to look at certain players (in your organization or on other teams) and provide a report. Not much of a stretch to direct your coaches to work on certain players and certain skills.

I would for sure have my hitting coach work with my fast guys on bunting for a base hit. It’s a lost art. For fast guys who are light hitters, it could be thirty or forty points in batting average (and OBP). NOT sacrifice bunts, a different skill set altogether. I rarely if ever use the sacrifice bunt.

Another one. I would have the pitching coach work with all my pitchers on pickoff moves. Not just to first base. Work with the catcher and infielders on spin moves to second base, And flat-footed (but not a balk) throws to 3B by RHP, catching the runner napping. No one has an inherent pick-off skill set. It’s all practice and repetition. And a pickoff has huge value in the game.

BBGiovanni · 08-25-2022, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

I'm not going to tear it apart

... but (and you could feel the "but" coming, no?), the counterpoint is that I have players with potential to realize, coaches to coax it out of them, personality traits that impact development, playing time to distribute for it to get done (aside from the backfields in the background), scouts to try and discern it, so why do I need to micromanage this?

I'm with you, I'm always happy for more options to keep everyone happy, but hope they come with a checkbox to get rid of them!

To build on your comment, development isn't straight line at all. Pete Alonso is a great example of someone who's willed/worked himself into good defense, but there are a billion examples of pitchers (say Mariano Rivera) that messed around playing catch and discovered a new pitch. Somebody might stand at a new position in spring training because another guy is hurt and turn out to be good.

My head-canon has always been that the game engine is abstracting all these things and coming out with rating changes, sometimes expected (like the defense/potential ratings estimates) and sometimes not (random talent drops). I have no desire at all to micromanage this stuff although I can see why people that don't play out games would.

dhennes1 · 08-25-2022, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

I'm not going to tear it apart

... but (and you could feel the "but" coming, no?), the counterpoint is that I have players with potential to realize, coaches to coax it out of them, personality traits that impact development, playing time to distribute for it to get done (aside from the backfields in the background), scouts to try and discern it, so why do I need to micromanage this? When I get the report at the end of Spring Training and I see what went up and what went down, I see the net of all that - including the things you mention, even if I didn't specifically set them. That is, Ricky Vaughn doesn't need me to "tell" him to work on his command. All the factors I referenced (and probably more) net out a post-Spring Training command result for The Wild Thing that I go forward into the season with. I think adding what you are seeking would be a boost of .00001% to the algorithm while adding a lot of code to get it, code that could go sideways with unintended consequences and eat up a lot of developer time to create.

So, that's the counterpoint.

That's fair. I think about that guy who's stamina isn't quite what it needs to be for a SP and his stuff isn't good enough to be a strong reliever. I'd like to be able to direct him one way or another. But, I don't necessarily disagree with your counterpoint. I can see the downside to something like this too, which is partly why I joked about tearing it apart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

I'm with you, I'm always happy for more options to keep everyone happy, but hope they come with a checkbox to get rid of them!

To build on your comment, development isn't straight line at all. Pete Alonso is a great example of someone who's willed/worked himself into good defense, but there are a billion examples of pitchers (say Mariano Rivera) that messed around playing catch and discovered a new pitch. Somebody might stand at a new position in spring training because another guy is hurt and turn out to be good.

My head-canon has always been that the game engine is abstracting all these things and coming out with rating changes, sometimes expected (like the defense/potential ratings estimates) and sometimes not (random talent drops). I have no desire at all to micromanage this stuff although I can see why people that don't play out games would.

That's fair too. In my mind I wasn't thinking that anything would be guaranteed. Maybe you tell a guy to work on control and it backfires. They don't gain any control and they lose ratings elsewhere. That's what I initially meant by the randomization factor of it.

Brad K · 08-26-2022, 01:39 AM

Can I assume this proposal applies only to fictional players?

What are the AI teams getting to compensate for a human's ability to do this to improve his players?

dhennes1 · 08-26-2022, 02:30 AM

Good question. I would assume (maybe falsely) that there is already existing logic that considers how a player fits into an Org's tendencies. I'd expect this to factor into draft decisions, managerial decisions, etc. I mean don't managers of AI teams all have managerial styles? So, why not use similar logic to identify gaps in players skills for those in the Org. If the manager steals a lot, has someone with high OBP but average speed, focus on his speed/stealing. Prioritizes the team's needs over the player's overall development. But, I'd venture to guess that's not too far out of line with reality.

Again, I'm fairly new to OOTP so making a lot of assumptions about the logic behind the game.

PSUColonel · 08-26-2022, 04:11 PM

Anything to help the management aspect of OOTP. There are dozens of threads on this topic, so I will leave it at that.

Brad K · 08-27-2022, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhennes1

Good question. I would assume (maybe falsely) that there is already existing logic that considers how a player fits into an Org's tendencies. I'd expect this to factor into draft decisions, managerial decisions, etc. I mean don't managers of AI teams all have managerial styles? So, why not use similar logic to identify gaps in players skills for those in the Org. If the manager steals a lot, has someone with high OBP but average speed, focus on his speed/stealing. Prioritizes the team's needs over the player's overall development. But, I'd venture to guess that's not too far out of line with reality.

Again, I'm fairly new to OOTP so making a lot of assumptions about the logic behind the game.

Unless its changed in 23 OOTP doesn't train players to play positions they didn't play in real life. Any infielder can be trained to play 1B but AI doesn't do it.

The things you are assuming are a lot more subtle than the idea of training a declining IF to play 1B, or to train one to be the backup. In the second case, instead of training one to be the backup AI will sign a 1B only player as the backup. I've seen no evidence of the features you assume, through 22, and don't recall anything in the 23 release notes indicated they were added. So I think they aren't there.

I oppose new features that help a human GM or Manager. I support features that help AI but that don't affect player statistics such as AI scouting being a level or two more accurate than the human setting or players asking for less money on an AI team. Along with this I support a setting for how much help AI gets.

whizkid1950 · 09-12-2022, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by md40022

Maybe a good coach can be assigned 4 or 5 training projects in a spring training as where an okay coach can do 2 or 3 projects. I don't think there's much micro managing there at all if you're just choosing a handful of players/skills at the start of ST..... I'd be a fan of something like that.

I like this suggestion a lot. Along these lines... it would be very cool if gms could invite retired players to come to ST to work with a youngster or two. This used to happen irl, maybe still does. Have a hot young CF prospect whose development with the glove is behind schedule? Bring in that retired gold glove CF that was an icon in your organization for years to work with the kid. Maybe 75% of the time in pays some dividends. Trainees with low adaptability would have a lower chance of success.

Brad K · 09-12-2022, 08:42 PM

I hope this enhancement is put much lower on the list than fixing HRs and SBs.

08-25-2022, 01:09 AM	#1
dhennes1 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2022 Posts: 48	Spring Training Concept Idea Let me preface this by saying I'm new here. So, this may be frowned upon or dismissed. But, I'm currently in my 2025 season. I play 2 games of every series. So, it takes me awhile to get through a season. But, this previous offseason, a 'wish list' idea kept nagging at me and wanted to get others thoughts on it. A lot of spring training (and arguably a decent amount of minor league activity) isn't about generating stats. Other than knocking off rust, typically teams have guys working on specific things for improvement. So, my idea was that you would be able to identify a certain number of guys in ST for your coaching staff to work closely with on specific skills. Example: You've got a great pitcher who struggles with command. Set a goal for him to work with the pitching coach to focus on command during ST. The number of coaching tasks/players could depend on the coach ability. I'm not proposing this for the entire roster. But say a highly skilled coach can focus on 3-4 guys during ST. The player's advancement could depend on things like work ethic, adaptability, age, etc. There could even be varying levels of focus (high, normal, low) that would potentially cause regression in other areas. The coach relationships could also factor into that equation. That same pitcher may lose some movement or stuff at the expense of gaining some control. Then there would also have to be some randomization factor involved as well. Just an idea that I don't think is THAT far fetched from what occurs in "real life". Feel free to tear it apart.

08-25-2022, 02:42 AM	#2
mytreds All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,182	The game definitely needs a mechanic that FM has had for a long time- the ability to have players focus on one of their abilities, to raise it slightly over the course of a season. Would really open up a lot of possibilities. __________________ “Baseball isn’t statistics; it’s Joe DiMaggio rounding second.” “Once, centuries ago, it was the beloved national pastime of the Americas, Wesley. Abandoned by a society that prized fast food and faster games. Lost to impatience.” “ The term ‘WAR’ should be replaced by ‘WAG’. WAR isn’t an actual measurement; it’s just a wild-ass guess” -Bill James RIP National League 1876-2022 Floreat semper vel invita morte. I make custom ballparks.

08-25-2022, 02:46 AM	#3
itsmb8 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,340	This game needs to lean hard on building up the management part of the game instead of just staying a simulator. __________________ Check out my Graphic Mods! Full MLB/MiLB Uniform Project (2021+) Thread \| Dropbox MLB Ballpark Ads My uniform templates!

08-26-2022, 02:30 AM	#10
dhennes1 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2022 Posts: 48	Manager Tendencies Good question. I would assume (maybe falsely) that there is already existing logic that considers how a player fits into an Org's tendencies. I'd expect this to factor into draft decisions, managerial decisions, etc. I mean don't managers of AI teams all have managerial styles? So, why not use similar logic to identify gaps in players skills for those in the Org. If the manager steals a lot, has someone with high OBP but average speed, focus on his speed/stealing. Prioritizes the team's needs over the player's overall development. But, I'd venture to guess that's not too far out of line with reality. Again, I'm fairly new to OOTP so making a lot of assumptions about the logic behind the game.

08-25-2022, 09:34 AM	#4
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 7,469	I'm not going to tear it apart ... but (and you could feel the "but" coming, no?), the counterpoint is that I have players with potential to realize, coaches to coax it out of them, personality traits that impact development, playing time to distribute for it to get done (aside from the backfields in the background), scouts to try and discern it, so why do I need to micromanage this? When I get the report at the end of Spring Training and I see what went up and what went down, I see the net of all that - including the things you mention, even if I didn't specifically set them. That is, Ricky Vaughn doesn't need me to "tell" him to work on his command. All the factors I referenced (and probably more) net out a post-Spring Training command result for The Wild Thing that I go forward into the season with. I think adding what you are seeking would be a boost of .00001% to the algorithm while adding a lot of code to get it, code that could go sideways with unintended consequences and eat up a lot of developer time to create. So, that's the counterpoint.

08-25-2022, 10:51 AM	#5
md40022 All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 740 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I actually think this is a good idea. You always hear about guys working on something new in spring training every year; whether it be a new position, a new pitch, and new release point to help pitch break and/or control, etc. etc. Maybe a good coach can be assigned 4 or 5 training projects in a spring training as where an okay coach can do 2 or 3 projects. I don't think there's much micro managing there at all if you're just choosing a handful of players/skills at the start of ST..... I'd be a fan of something like that.

08-25-2022, 11:01 AM	#6
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,967	Like this idea. And the game already has tiptoed in this specialized direction. You can direct your scout to look at certain players (in your organization or on other teams) and provide a report. Not much of a stretch to direct your coaches to work on certain players and certain skills. I would for sure have my hitting coach work with my fast guys on bunting for a base hit. It’s a lost art. For fast guys who are light hitters, it could be thirty or forty points in batting average (and OBP). NOT sacrifice bunts, a different skill set altogether. I rarely if ever use the sacrifice bunt. Another one. I would have the pitching coach work with all my pitchers on pickoff moves. Not just to first base. Work with the catcher and infielders on spin moves to second base, And flat-footed (but not a balk) throws to 3B by RHP, catching the runner napping. No one has an inherent pick-off skill set. It’s all practice and repetition. And a pickoff has huge value in the game.

08-26-2022, 01:39 AM	#9
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	Can I assume this proposal applies only to fictional players? What are the AI teams getting to compensate for a human's ability to do this to improve his players?

08-26-2022, 04:11 PM	#11
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,105	Anything to help the management aspect of OOTP. There are dozens of threads on this topic, so I will leave it at that.

09-12-2022, 08:42 PM	#14
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	I hope this enhancement is put much lower on the list than fixing HRs and SBs.