Catcher Framing is Bugged and is Causing Low Catcher WAR

TuckerDuckson · 05-01-2022, 03:11 AM

Heyo, playing an A's sim, drafted a pretty stud catcher, like 4 years ago. Kid is progressing through the minors and despite having pretty above average offensive seasons, average of an 110 OPS+, but despite this, he consistently has been putting up negative WAR seasons down there. I wonder why, when he's playing so well with his bat. So, I check his defense, he's a mid defensive catcher, like 50-55 in catching, not horrible, like he can play catcher and won't look like an idiot.

Dude has -20 framing runs.

Now, I don't keep year over year minors fielding stats, but I find this kind of weird. He's like not the best catcher, but in previous OOTP versions, that could be a serviceable defensive catcher. I'm a pretty hands off manager, but I started looking around, starting with my own catching core, and noticed how bad my backup catcher was doing. He was doing horrible with the bat, 19 OPS+, but he's a 75 overall defensive catcher, I usually accept the bad bat for his good work behind the plate. Yeah, he has -8 framing runs.

Okay, so I checked all MLB players, and then checked catching WAR, and the highest catcher WAR is 2, over a full season. On average, most catchers have such low framing runs, which is tanking their WAR, and output, and salaries.

I can't take screenshots but guys like J.T Realmuto have -9.8 FMR, Salvador Perez has -11.8, Alejandro Kirk has -25.4, Adley Rutschman has -9.4 (and has a -1.7 WAR at 28... ok), Shea Langeliers has -11.8, Joey Bart has -12.8 etc, etc etc.

I think this is a recent problem, but in my save right now, zero, I repeat zero catchers have a positive framing runs. But my backup catcher (who is Blake Hunt, a currently highly regarded defensive catcher in the Rays system), had a positive framing runs 3 years ago, which I played before the previous two patches. But maybe not, Gabriel Moreno and J.T Realmuto have had close to -10 Framing runs for the past 4 seasons.

Is this is a known problem?

Matt Arnold · 05-01-2022, 07:38 AM

Framing was re-balanced for the current beta patch versions that have been released. Was this being played before updating to the current patch, or is your current season all played after updating?

TuckerDuckson · 05-01-2022, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Framing was re-balanced for the current beta patch versions that have been released. Was this being played before updating to the current patch, or is your current season all played after updating?

This save I'm on was played before the recent patches, but I've been playing 1 season per patch, per save, to see if there are oddities like this. This is the first time I've noticed it be this blatant, but from the fielding stats I have saved for catchers, it seems like it's been a problem for the past few patches, (at least 4, as I'm on year 2026 so far).

texasmame · 05-01-2022, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Framing was re-balanced for the current beta patch versions that have been released. Was this being played before updating to the current patch, or is your current season all played after updating?

Happen to know when first non-beta patch will be released?

TuckerDuckson · 05-02-2022, 03:34 PM

I mean correlation doesn't always equal causation, but man catchers are suffering right now. AJ Shepard is my guy, who I'm forcing to start to see how conflated it can be.

Update on Adley Rutschman, his WAR seems to be directly tied with his framing metrics. You can see in 2024, he put up a 4.7 with a 138 OPS+, he had positive framing metrics in 2024, and the next season, he put up a pretty similar season, only .40 OPS lower, but his WAR was 1.4 points lower, mainly tied to his now negative framing runs of -5.8. Then we see his disaster of a season where he put up a -1.6 WAR, where his bat was in the toilet, and he had -9.4 framing runs, but now he's again having positive framing metrics?

Is it effected by catcher ability or something? AJ Shepard and Adley Rutschman have the exact same fielding ability at Catcher, yet AJ has -20 something.

In comparison to 2021, where the lowest was a -18 by Salvador Perez, then tails off quite steadily, there were only 3 double digit framing run losers last year. In my current save there are 16, with an additional 6 looking like they're going to finish out the year with over -10 framing runs saved.

In comparison to the positive framing runs, there were quite a bit of success. Decent few in the higher, getting close to 10, but 20 guys who have put up at least 2 framing runs saved.

Yeah in my save there are 0 guys who have put up 2 framing runs saved. There are actually only 3 who put up positive marks so far.

This has to be a bug, or it should at least be looked at to be more realistic. This seems to have been a problem for quite some time, as patches have been released. Also it seems like "Arm Runs" does nothing, no statistics have been saved for the past 5 seasons.

ubernoob · 05-02-2022, 06:58 PM

Just looked at the stats after my season.

Gary Sanchez is the worst not pictured at -22 runs.

05-01-2022, 03:11 AM	#1
TuckerDuckson Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 447	Catcher Framing is Bugged and is Causing Low Catcher WAR Heyo, playing an A's sim, drafted a pretty stud catcher, like 4 years ago. Kid is progressing through the minors and despite having pretty above average offensive seasons, average of an 110 OPS+, but despite this, he consistently has been putting up negative WAR seasons down there. I wonder why, when he's playing so well with his bat. So, I check his defense, he's a mid defensive catcher, like 50-55 in catching, not horrible, like he can play catcher and won't look like an idiot. Dude has -20 framing runs. Now, I don't keep year over year minors fielding stats, but I find this kind of weird. He's like not the best catcher, but in previous OOTP versions, that could be a serviceable defensive catcher. I'm a pretty hands off manager, but I started looking around, starting with my own catching core, and noticed how bad my backup catcher was doing. He was doing horrible with the bat, 19 OPS+, but he's a 75 overall defensive catcher, I usually accept the bad bat for his good work behind the plate. Yeah, he has -8 framing runs. Okay, so I checked all MLB players, and then checked catching WAR, and the highest catcher WAR is 2, over a full season. On average, most catchers have such low framing runs, which is tanking their WAR, and output, and salaries. I can't take screenshots but guys like J.T Realmuto have -9.8 FMR, Salvador Perez has -11.8, Alejandro Kirk has -25.4, Adley Rutschman has -9.4 (and has a -1.7 WAR at 28... ok), Shea Langeliers has -11.8, Joey Bart has -12.8 etc, etc etc. I think this is a recent problem, but in my save right now, zero, I repeat zero catchers have a positive framing runs. But my backup catcher (who is Blake Hunt, a currently highly regarded defensive catcher in the Rays system), had a positive framing runs 3 years ago, which I played before the previous two patches. But maybe not, Gabriel Moreno and J.T Realmuto have had close to -10 Framing runs for the past 4 seasons. Is this is a known problem? __________________ Plays legit baseball now. My OOTP ratings are low. 2022 update: I'm two stars!

05-02-2022, 03:34 PM	#5
TuckerDuckson Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 447	I mean correlation doesn't always equal causation, but man catchers are suffering right now. AJ Shepard is my guy, who I'm forcing to start to see how conflated it can be. Update on Adley Rutschman, his WAR seems to be directly tied with his framing metrics. You can see in 2024, he put up a 4.7 with a 138 OPS+, he had positive framing metrics in 2024, and the next season, he put up a pretty similar season, only .40 OPS lower, but his WAR was 1.4 points lower, mainly tied to his now negative framing runs of -5.8. Then we see his disaster of a season where he put up a -1.6 WAR, where his bat was in the toilet, and he had -9.4 framing runs, but now he's again having positive framing metrics? Is it effected by catcher ability or something? AJ Shepard and Adley Rutschman have the exact same fielding ability at Catcher, yet AJ has -20 something. In comparison to 2021, where the lowest was a -18 by Salvador Perez, then tails off quite steadily, there were only 3 double digit framing run losers last year. In my current save there are 16, with an additional 6 looking like they're going to finish out the year with over -10 framing runs saved. In comparison to the positive framing runs, there were quite a bit of success. Decent few in the higher, getting close to 10, but 20 guys who have put up at least 2 framing runs saved. Yeah in my save there are 0 guys who have put up 2 framing runs saved. There are actually only 3 who put up positive marks so far. This has to be a bug, or it should at least be looked at to be more realistic. This seems to have been a problem for quite some time, as patches have been released. Also it seems like "Arm Runs" does nothing, no statistics have been saved for the past 5 seasons. __________________ Plays legit baseball now. My OOTP ratings are low. 2022 update: I'm two stars! Last edited by TuckerDuckson; 05-02-2022 at 03:45 PM.

05-02-2022, 06:58 PM	#6
ubernoob Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 300	Just looked at the stats after my season. Gary Sanchez is the worst not pictured at -22 runs. Attached Images __________________

05-01-2022, 07:38 AM	#2
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,866	Framing was re-balanced for the current beta patch versions that have been released. Was this being played before updating to the current patch, or is your current season all played after updating?