Financials or no?

Modern Relic · 05-02-2003, 02:05 AM

I'm just curious how important financials are for those who participate in online leagues.

I personally don't care for using them, and always disable them, but that's just me. Thoughts?

wireman · 05-02-2003, 03:11 AM

I don't think I've ever been in a league that didn't use them.

I'd rather not lose that dimension in my decision-making process. I'm in my fifth season with Rome, and the fiscal struggle with players, fans and finances has been tougher in its way than trying to win games.

huskerdan25 · 05-02-2003, 10:31 AM

I have been using financials in my 1970's league and my modern league but have in the past not used them in my deadball era league, mainly to try to keep with the times when there really was no free agency and because the salaries are not reflective of those of the times.

Having said that, I think why historical leagues, especially ones that start in the deadball era struggle to survive is because financials aren't used. When you take financials away, basically, your responsibilities as an owner go to simply trades and lineup changes. Owners begin to lose interest early. I think another factor is unless you have some alternative plan so that there is player movement in the league, historical leagues tend to have dominant teams and owners lose interest when they feel they don't have much of a chance to compete year to year.

So, my deadball era league finally voted to turn on financials to bring more excitement to the league. Maybe excitement isn't the word

but to bring more activity into the league. Yes the salaries are out of whack and yes I realize that we are introducing modern concepts to a deadball league, but if it will keep my owners interested, active and excited about the league by turning financials on, then it's worth losing some historical perspective in turning them on.

Dan
BALL/BALL2 Commissioner
LOTG Commissioner (1902)

LedgerSko · 05-02-2003, 02:36 PM

Yeah I think financials are needed unless you set up a league specifically for the reason of not using financials.

MannyTrillo · 05-03-2003, 02:26 AM

Both kinds of leagues have their merits, but personally I prefer the continuity in leagues without financials. It is a lot easier than I would have thought to build a team through drafting and trading- www.so49.com is good example of a league without financials in which there have stilll been a lot of fluctuations in terms of who the contending teams are.

wireman · 05-03-2003, 12:45 PM

I'll have to get into one of those no-financials leagues sometime, Manny. Maybe it's not so bad, after all

darkhorse · 05-03-2003, 12:49 PM

I've played in both and leagues with financials turned off are not to my taste. Finances have had a huge impact on who wins and who loses no matter what era of baseball you look at.

Modern Relic · 05-03-2003, 12:54 PM

Well ok then Manny and Wireman. One of you neds to snatch up the open team in the AFBL.

wireman · 05-03-2003, 01:21 PM

I don't know, MR. I'm worried about the realism of that league. Sidd Finch rated only a 10 for velocity?

Modern Relic · 05-03-2003, 01:34 PM

LOL! Unfortunately, Sidd does not "go to eleven."

TSmith1969 · 05-08-2003, 01:26 AM

We started a 1950s era alternative historical league, in which we have financials turned on (for club attendance and revenues), but we use a league salary structure based on draft round, performance rewards, etc. We've adjusted the fan interest to replicate historical attendance figures (about 12-14k per game in early 50s), and have instituted a 'modified reserve clause' where each team can automatically renew 1/2 of its contracts each year (adding 20% to each player's salary for every year of extension). The non-renewed players go into a Re-entry Draft, which precedes the amateur draft. Thus, finances are on, but we have no free agency.

One of the problems of historical simming in OOTP is that with finances on, you get free agency, and with free agency off, you get no finances. The financial side of the game was always an important determinant of success on the field, and not just after 1975. Over time, as players get more powerful, we will loosen up the reserve powers of teams, and transition to full free agency in the 1970s, but in the meantime, our 'modified reserve clause' is working well.

In addition, it is only an eight-team league for now, all very active owners. Check us out:

http://www.smithtj.com/unitedleague/

Timothy J. Smith
United League

05-02-2003, 02:05 AM	#1
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,266	Financials or no? I'm just curious how important financials are for those who participate in online leagues. I personally don't care for using them, and always disable them, but that's just me. Thoughts? __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

05-02-2003, 03:11 AM	#2
wireman All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Harrisonburg VA Posts: 765	I don't think I've ever been in a league that didn't use them. I'd rather not lose that dimension in my decision-making process. I'm in my fifth season with Rome, and the fiscal struggle with players, fans and finances has been tougher in its way than trying to win games. __________________ "Sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn't."

05-03-2003, 02:26 AM	#5
MannyTrillo All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 664	Both kinds of leagues have their merits, but personally I prefer the continuity in leagues without financials. It is a lot easier than I would have thought to build a team through drafting and trading- www.so49.com is good example of a league without financials in which there have stilll been a lot of fluctuations in terms of who the contending teams are. __________________ Poster emeritus "Not butchery, dining!!" obt sk cmh ct President, A-1 Aces OT Posting Club Click here to join

05-03-2003, 12:45 PM	#6
wireman All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Harrisonburg VA Posts: 765	I'll have to get into one of those no-financials leagues sometime, Manny. Maybe it's not so bad, after all __________________ "Sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn't."

05-03-2003, 12:49 PM	#7
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	I've played in both and leagues with financials turned off are not to my taste. Finances have had a huge impact on who wins and who loses no matter what era of baseball you look at. __________________ "The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

05-02-2003, 10:31 AM	#3
huskerdan25 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 353	I have been using financials in my 1970's league and my modern league but have in the past not used them in my deadball era league, mainly to try to keep with the times when there really was no free agency and because the salaries are not reflective of those of the times. Having said that, I think why historical leagues, especially ones that start in the deadball era struggle to survive is because financials aren't used. When you take financials away, basically, your responsibilities as an owner go to simply trades and lineup changes. Owners begin to lose interest early. I think another factor is unless you have some alternative plan so that there is player movement in the league, historical leagues tend to have dominant teams and owners lose interest when they feel they don't have much of a chance to compete year to year. So, my deadball era league finally voted to turn on financials to bring more excitement to the league. Maybe excitement isn't the word but to bring more activity into the league. Yes the salaries are out of whack and yes I realize that we are introducing modern concepts to a deadball league, but if it will keep my owners interested, active and excited about the league by turning financials on, then it's worth losing some historical perspective in turning them on. Dan BALL/BALL2 Commissioner LOTG Commissioner (1902)

05-02-2003, 02:36 PM	#4
LedgerSko All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,085	Yeah I think financials are needed unless you set up a league specifically for the reason of not using financials.

05-03-2003, 12:54 PM	#8
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,266	Well ok then Manny and Wireman. One of you neds to snatch up the open team in the AFBL. __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

05-03-2003, 01:21 PM	#9
wireman All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Harrisonburg VA Posts: 765	I don't know, MR. I'm worried about the realism of that league. Sidd Finch rated only a 10 for velocity? __________________ "Sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn't."

05-03-2003, 01:34 PM	#10
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,266	LOL! Unfortunately, Sidd does not "go to eleven." __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

05-08-2003, 01:26 AM	#11
TSmith1969 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 253	We started a 1950s era alternative historical league, in which we have financials turned on (for club attendance and revenues), but we use a league salary structure based on draft round, performance rewards, etc. We've adjusted the fan interest to replicate historical attendance figures (about 12-14k per game in early 50s), and have instituted a 'modified reserve clause' where each team can automatically renew 1/2 of its contracts each year (adding 20% to each player's salary for every year of extension). The non-renewed players go into a Re-entry Draft, which precedes the amateur draft. Thus, finances are on, but we have no free agency. One of the problems of historical simming in OOTP is that with finances on, you get free agency, and with free agency off, you get no finances. The financial side of the game was always an important determinant of success on the field, and not just after 1975. Over time, as players get more powerful, we will loosen up the reserve powers of teams, and transition to full free agency in the 1970s, but in the meantime, our 'modified reserve clause' is working well. In addition, it is only an eight-team league for now, all very active owners. Check us out: http://www.smithtj.com/unitedleague/ Timothy J. Smith United League