Purchasing Players From Indy Leagues

PSUColonel · 10-01-2021, 10:45 PM

I am interested in purchasing a 31 year-old RP from an Indy league...he has over 8 years of major league experience...will I be able to bury him in AAA without having to waive him?

Also...on a related note...I noticed the developers said the AI won't automatically purchase players INDY leagues sign...but doesn't this give the human player and unfair advantage, as the human can sign a player whenever he/she wants?

ohiodevil · 10-02-2021, 06:31 PM

When you purchase him from an Indy team he gets a minor league contract, so you can just assign him to your AAA team without having to waive/DFA him.

There was an issue in earlier builds where players would sign with an Indy team and the next day the AI would purchase him, I know they have fixed this but there is nothing in place to stop a human from doing that....other than setting that "house rule"

PSUColonel · 10-02-2021, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

When you purchase him from an Indy team he gets a minor league contract, so you can just assign him to your AAA team without having to waive/DFA him.

There was an issue in earlier builds where players would sign with an Indy team and the next day the AI would purchase him, I know they have fixed this but there is nothing in place to stop a human from doing that....other than setting that "house rule"

Right...which is why I don't think what the developers did is the best solution. I am trying to think of something better. I almost think it was better the other way from a competitive standpoint. Basically as it stands now, I can purchase any player I want from INDY Leagues, without any competition whatsoever.

PSUColonel · 10-02-2021, 06:53 PM

The only thing I can think of to level the playing field is to completely disable the feature "allow teams to purchase players".

I suppose this way, the INDY Leagues exist as a place for some players to go...they can still move to MLB, MiLB or International in the off-season, but cannot be purchased once they sign a one year contract. (which I believe most all the contract one year deals)

ohiodevil · 10-02-2021, 06:59 PM

I mean the AI does purchase players from the Indy Leagues, they just wait a bit before they do it, but I have seen guys who were regulars in the majors sign with Indy league team and then end up getting picked up by a major league team and make a mini comeback.

I personally have a house rule where I do not purchase any players from the Indy or Australian league until June 1st and I have noticed that there are a decent number of guys getting signed, with almost all going to a teams AAA or AA team, but most are signed in late April or early May.

This past off season there was an OF that I traded for that had a good season, but he was too expensive for me so I let him walk and I noticed that he signed with an Australian team in November, and then signed with Cleveland after the ABL season ended, was kind of cool to see a guy go play "Winter Ball" and then sign a 3 year deal with a MLB team. I looked into this and noticed that it happens fairly often for guys who are easily MLB starter caliber play in the ABL and then sign a multi year deal with a MLB team.

PSUColonel · 10-02-2021, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

I mean the AI does purchase players from the Indy Leagues, they just wait a bit before they do it, but I have seen guys who were regulars in the majors sign with Indy league team and then end up getting picked up by a major league team and make a mini comeback.

I personally have a house rule where I do not purchase any players from the Indy or Australian league until June 1st and I have noticed that there are a decent number of guys getting signed, with almost all going to a teams AAA or AA team, but most are signed in late April or early May.

This past off season there was an OF that I traded for that had a good season, but he was too expensive for me so I let him walk and I noticed that he signed with an Australian team in November, and then signed with Cleveland after the ABL season ended, was kind of cool to see a guy go play "Winter Ball" and then sign a 3 year deal with a MLB team. I looked into this and noticed that it happens fairly often for guys who are easily MLB starter caliber play in the ABL and then sign a multi year deal with a MLB team.

I love the idea of the feature...I just don't feel it's implemented well. Like you said...the AI WILL purchase players...but they wait so long that the human player can now essentially snatch up all the best talent uncontested.

You would think there'd be a better way to do this. You are also right, in that some players who are most certainly AAA talent (and therefore low MLB talent) are signing with Indy leagues for some reason. This may be the real crux of the issue.

TomVeal · 10-02-2021, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I love the idea of the feature...I just don't feel it's implemented well. Like you said...the AI WILL purchase players...but they wait so long that the human player can now essentially snatch up all the best talent uncontested.

You would think there'd be a better way to do this. You are also right, in that some players who are most certainly AAA talent (and therefore low MLB talent) are signing with Indy leagues for some reason. This may be the real crux of the issue.

Isn't the problem, then, that the AI is too reticent about offering minor league contracts to AAA and AAAA players? For some reason, it notices them only after they sign to play independent ball.

omg_pwnasaurus · 10-03-2021, 01:08 PM

It's a tricky situation to really solve well. At least for me I've been playing a historical sim started in 1984. I didn't really know what was happening at first when the draft pool got released I saw in the transactions the Orioles had signed some kid from the Utica indy team named Larry Walker with potential to be the best player in the game.

I soon realized the cpu was signing those created players before i had a chance to so I would scour the indy leagues the day the pool got released which seemed to coincide with these possibly very good players appearing on indy teams if they did IRL.

I then figured maybe the best way to do it is to handle it like a draft and maybe put those players on the worst teams. I couldn't come up with a perfect way to handle it but I do make sure I have extra cash on hand when the draft pool gets released, if some 5 star potential superstar guy randomly appears like Walker did, I try to level the playing field by having the worst team purchase them.

Not perfect, but maybe it will help.

PSUColonel · 10-03-2021, 01:23 PM

I was thinking of a potential “bidding” system where teams’ can bid on any given player, and then it’s up to the Indy team GM to either accept or reject the bid. Obviously the more money the better your chances of landing the player. At least this way there’s a monetary penalty potentially beyond the set amount (250k)

clamel · 10-03-2021, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omg_pwnasaurus

It's a tricky situation to really solve well. At least for me I've been playing a historical sim started in 1984. I didn't really know what was happening at first when the draft pool got released I saw in the transactions the Orioles had signed some kid from the Utica indy team named Larry Walker with potential to be the best player in the game.

I soon realized the cpu was signing those created players before i had a chance to so I would scour the indy leagues the day the pool got released which seemed to coincide with these possibly very good players appearing on indy teams if they did IRL.

I then figured maybe the best way to do it is to handle it like a draft and maybe put those players on the worst teams. I couldn't come up with a perfect way to handle it but I do make sure I have extra cash on hand when the draft pool gets released, if some 5 star potential superstar guy randomly appears like Walker did, I try to level the playing field by having the worst team purchase them.

Not perfect, but maybe it will help.

That Larry Walker got snatched in my Hist-league too. When I spotted it I got angry of course. We all know what he did when playing for Expos and Rockies. He has then been ranked in top 5 of prospect and I guess the AI for Seattle Mariners just laughing at me and the others.
That independent minor league team Utica must have gotten him directly in May, then Seattle purchased him the very same day.
I don't have the drafts and new players go directly to the teams that drafted them, but a regular draft after the end of season, so Larry W just popped up out of nowhere.
Can't figure out how that was since those MiLB that are independent should'nt get players that are fictional or even these real players.
My thought was that every player that made a pro debut the upcoming year was in the draft in December.
Now I better watch if someone similar pops up in the years to come.

DJ_Jak_32 · 10-04-2021, 07:57 AM

Walker was not drafted, he was signed as an amateur free agent because in 1984/1985, Canadian players were not eligible to be selected in the MLB draft, so the Expos scouting director saw him at the 1984 Youth World Championships and he was signed to a contract by Jim Fanning after hitting a home run with a wooden bat. This would explain why he is showing up as a free agent instead of on the Expos since I believe the game only puts players on the teams that drafted them.

PSUColonel · 10-04-2021, 08:13 AM

The fact is....way too many players are valuing Indy League contracts over AAA offers. Is this realistic? I am not sure it is. It seems to me a lot of these borderline players would have a pretty good shot at getting to the MLB at some point, and are throwing away this opportunity to get paid 5K for one year to play for an Indy team.

DJ_Jak_32 · 10-04-2021, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The fact is....way too many players are valuing Indy League contracts over AAA offers. Is this realistic? I am not sure it is. It seems to me a lot of these borderline players would have a pretty good shot at getting to the MLB at some point, and are throwing away this opportunity to get paid 5K for one year to play for an Indy team.

Are those players being offered AAA deals and choosing the Indy one instead? I have offered players minor league deals when it shows they have interest from Indy teams and 99% of the time they take my offer.

In real life. with the changes to the minors and the addition of the 4 partner Indy leagues (Atlantic, American Association, Frontier and Pioneer), players see these teams as unaffiliated minor leagues and may see that as a better opportunity because they could have more options to get back to affiliated baseball instead of being stuck in AAA for one team and they could end up with less playing time because teams want their prospects to play over them. I will be curious to see if OOTP ends up changing something with how these Partner leagues work. I know this season there were a lot of players "transferred" to affiliated teams, more than in years past.

billyray1984 · 10-04-2021, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

Are those players being offered AAA deals and choosing the Indy one instead? I have offered players minor league deals when it shows they have interest from Indy teams and 99% of the time they take my offer.

In real life. with the changes to the minors and the addition of the 4 partner Indy leagues (Atlantic, American Association, Frontier and Pioneer), players see these teams as unaffiliated minor leagues and may see that as a better opportunity because they could have more options to get back to affiliated baseball instead of being stuck in AAA for one team and they could end up with less playing time because teams want their prospects to play over them. I will be curious to see if OOTP ends up changing something with how these Partner leagues work. I know this season there were a lot of players "transferred" to affiliated teams, more than in years past.

I know of one guy who decided to play in the Frontier league years ago instead of reupping in the minors. His reasoning was simple : he was 28, so he wasn't a prospect anymore, he was a journeyman ; he could have a normal job in the offseason and he'd be pretty much assured that he wouldn't have to move so he could finally settle down. For guys who have AAA experience or have even reached the majors, they'll be a big fish in a small pond instead of a small fish in a big pond, and that can also be attratice.

For a 24-25 year old kid who still believes he has a shot, grinding in the minors still makes sense, but once you get in that 28+ range, I can see the appeal of a more "normal" life.

DJ_Jak_32 · 10-04-2021, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyray1984

I know of one guy who decided to play in the Frontier league years ago instead of reupping in the minors. His reasoning was simple : he was 28, so he wasn't a prospect anymore, he was a journeyman ; he could have a normal job in the offseason and he'd be pretty much assured that he wouldn't have to move so he could finally settle down. For guys who have AAA experience or have even reached the majors, they'll be a big fish in a small pond instead of a small fish in a big pond, and that can also be attratice.

For a 24-25 year old kid who still believes he has a shot, grinding in the minors still makes sense, but once you get in that 28+ range, I can see the appeal of a more "normal" life.

My roommate in college was drafted when he was 20, played in the minors for 4 seasons and made it to Single-A, and then decided it was a better choice to go play Indy ball even with a couple of offers from teams to play in the minors. He played in the Frontier, Can-Am and Atlantic Leagues over the next 5 seasons before settling down and taking a job coaching at a small college. He said he had offers to get back to affiliated ball but he said it was not worth it since he knew he was never going to be more than a "filler" guy.

Cool thing was we got to play together again in the Frontier League, he said that he enjoyed his time in the Indy's more than in the minors.

clamel · 10-08-2021, 08:34 PM

On the Larry Walker issue. When one select having a proper draft playing historical you actually get every player into this draft for the year they started to play pro-baseball. The fact that Larry W wasn't in the real draft is something OOTP don't care about.
Larry Walker is like Ichiro Suzuki and all the Japanese and Cubans dropping in. They are just avalaible to be drafted along with the real draftpicks.
It's kind of sad. So when selecting not to have a draft in historical save you just get everyone into the team they signed with the first time.

It takes a bit of thinking which form will be best for each and everyone.

One method I now and then use is to pick out those "odd" players and just delete them from the draftlist. Then make a note and import them sometime in Jan-Feb as Free Agents, ready to be signed by any team now and not ever be in any draft. It can be a huge amount now and then, since all the Latinoplayers are just in that bunch.

OOTP lacks something to make this work but it can be micromanaged to be pretty correct.

PSUColonel · 10-27-2021, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomVeal

Isn't the problem, then, that the AI is too reticent about offering minor league contracts to AAA and AAAA players? For some reason, it notices them only after they sign to play independent ball.

Yes, I think this is likely at the crux of the issue. A more aggressive AI in terms of signing players for organizational depth is what I think may be needed here.

The Ai is pretty good about building it's MLB rosters, but it doesn't always eye the talent pool for depth and/or reserves.

This could very well be why these 40-45 overall type players are just sitting in the FA pool for Indy teams to come along and sign. I think it reality, most of these type players would only sign with a AAA team at the least.

Now granted, most of these players are on the older side, but I also think it's clear they are very serviceable as AAA/reserve type players.

The type of player going to an Indy league to me, would be an older player rated around a 30 or 35 at the very most.

Obviously scouting could be playing a role in some of this, but not to a huge extent. Since most of these players are older, the scouting reports would tend to be a bit more accurate, and probably only off by 5 or 10 at the most. (On the 20-80 scale)

10-01-2021, 10:45 PM	#1
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,117	Purchasing Players From Indy Leagues I am interested in purchasing a 31 year-old RP from an Indy league...he has over 8 years of major league experience...will I be able to bury him in AAA without having to waive him? Also...on a related note...I noticed the developers said the AI won't automatically purchase players INDY leagues sign...but doesn't this give the human player and unfair advantage, as the human can sign a player whenever he/she wants? Last edited by PSUColonel; 10-01-2021 at 10:47 PM.

10-02-2021, 06:59 PM	#5
ohiodevil OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Rocky River, Ohio Posts: 2,439	I mean the AI does purchase players from the Indy Leagues, they just wait a bit before they do it, but I have seen guys who were regulars in the majors sign with Indy league team and then end up getting picked up by a major league team and make a mini comeback. I personally have a house rule where I do not purchase any players from the Indy or Australian league until June 1st and I have noticed that there are a decent number of guys getting signed, with almost all going to a teams AAA or AA team, but most are signed in late April or early May. This past off season there was an OF that I traded for that had a good season, but he was too expensive for me so I let him walk and I noticed that he signed with an Australian team in November, and then signed with Cleveland after the ABL season ended, was kind of cool to see a guy go play "Winter Ball" and then sign a 3 year deal with a MLB team. I looked into this and noticed that it happens fairly often for guys who are easily MLB starter caliber play in the ABL and then sign a multi year deal with a MLB team. Last edited by ohiodevil; 10-02-2021 at 07:01 PM.

10-04-2021, 07:57 AM	#11
DJ_Jak_32 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 260	Walker was not drafted, he was signed as an amateur free agent because in 1984/1985, Canadian players were not eligible to be selected in the MLB draft, so the Expos scouting director saw him at the 1984 Youth World Championships and he was signed to a contract by Jim Fanning after hitting a home run with a wooden bat. This would explain why he is showing up as a free agent instead of on the Expos since I believe the game only puts players on the teams that drafted them. Last edited by DJ_Jak_32; 10-04-2021 at 07:58 AM.

10-04-2021, 08:13 AM	#12
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,117	The fact is....way too many players are valuing Indy League contracts over AAA offers. Is this realistic? I am not sure it is. It seems to me a lot of these borderline players would have a pretty good shot at getting to the MLB at some point, and are throwing away this opportunity to get paid 5K for one year to play for an Indy team. Last edited by PSUColonel; 10-04-2021 at 08:22 AM.

10-02-2021, 06:31 PM	#2
ohiodevil OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Rocky River, Ohio Posts: 2,439	When you purchase him from an Indy team he gets a minor league contract, so you can just assign him to your AAA team without having to waive/DFA him. There was an issue in earlier builds where players would sign with an Indy team and the next day the AI would purchase him, I know they have fixed this but there is nothing in place to stop a human from doing that....other than setting that "house rule"

10-02-2021, 06:53 PM	#4
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,117	The only thing I can think of to level the playing field is to completely disable the feature "allow teams to purchase players". I suppose this way, the INDY Leagues exist as a place for some players to go...they can still move to MLB, MiLB or International in the off-season, but cannot be purchased once they sign a one year contract. (which I believe most all the contract one year deals)

10-03-2021, 01:08 PM	#8
omg_pwnasaurus Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 362	It's a tricky situation to really solve well. At least for me I've been playing a historical sim started in 1984. I didn't really know what was happening at first when the draft pool got released I saw in the transactions the Orioles had signed some kid from the Utica indy team named Larry Walker with potential to be the best player in the game. I soon realized the cpu was signing those created players before i had a chance to so I would scour the indy leagues the day the pool got released which seemed to coincide with these possibly very good players appearing on indy teams if they did IRL. I then figured maybe the best way to do it is to handle it like a draft and maybe put those players on the worst teams. I couldn't come up with a perfect way to handle it but I do make sure I have extra cash on hand when the draft pool gets released, if some 5 star potential superstar guy randomly appears like Walker did, I try to level the playing field by having the worst team purchase them. Not perfect, but maybe it will help.

10-03-2021, 01:23 PM	#9
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,117	I was thinking of a potential “bidding” system where teams’ can bid on any given player, and then it’s up to the Indy team GM to either accept or reject the bid. Obviously the more money the better your chances of landing the player. At least this way there’s a monetary penalty potentially beyond the set amount (250k)

10-08-2021, 08:34 PM	#16
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,038	On the Larry Walker issue. When one select having a proper draft playing historical you actually get every player into this draft for the year they started to play pro-baseball. The fact that Larry W wasn't in the real draft is something OOTP don't care about. Larry Walker is like Ichiro Suzuki and all the Japanese and Cubans dropping in. They are just avalaible to be drafted along with the real draftpicks. It's kind of sad. So when selecting not to have a draft in historical save you just get everyone into the team they signed with the first time. It takes a bit of thinking which form will be best for each and everyone. One method I now and then use is to pick out those "odd" players and just delete them from the draftlist. Then make a note and import them sometime in Jan-Feb as Free Agents, ready to be signed by any team now and not ever be in any draft. It can be a huge amount now and then, since all the Latinoplayers are just in that bunch. OOTP lacks something to make this work but it can be micromanaged to be pretty correct.