Offer to free agent is "pending" forever, then he signs for half elsewhere

[brotherblues]

Free agent behaviour can be head scratching indeed.

We sometimes defend it by saying "well real life is chaotic too and people do weird things" and that's true. However I feel like that's just a blanket excuse for things that could perhaps be looked into for some tweaking.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Sometimes players just don't like your team, so they go elsewhere.

[brotherblues]

There's that blanket I was talking about.

I mean we can rationalize every irrational AI behaviour.

If a player asks for 1.5M, and I offer 1.8M, and he says it's cool and asks me to submit it, and I do, then he ignores the offer and signs somewhere else for 900k (while having no history with neither team), then... yes, we can rationalize it if we try hard enough, but I'm finding myself doing some extremely acrobatic rationalizations every single offseason. It's just... just no.

[BBGiovanni]

This just happened in my season too, and it's irritating.

[DJ_Jak_32]

So because a player you wanted to sign decided to sign somewhere else for less, it's a problem with the AI or the code?

There are plenty of times where a player does not like something about a team and goes elsewhere....maybe he does not like your manager or Asst GM, who knows.

[Syd Thrift]

IME if the player doesn’t want to sign with you, he’ll usually say so straight away. Are we sure this is that issue, because it sounds like a player just “forgets” about the first offer.

How long after your offers are these signings occurring? If they’re within a few days, I think the player just took the lower offer for whatever reason - playing closer to his home, maybe, he doesn’t see how he’d start for your team, etc. Maybe the game even invokes a little random chance on the end, even when the offer is not close (although if you’re talking about a modern league, $1.8M for one year is still relatively close to $900k for the same 1 year deal). I’d still like to see a better explanation when he sends you that email back saying he’s decided to sign elsewhere, although if random chance is involved that make things tough (“your offer was better but I decided to sign with the A’s anyway, sorry”).

[Syd Thrift]

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[brotherblues]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

So because a player you wanted to sign decided to sign somewhere else for less, it's a problem with the AI or the code?

There are plenty of times where a player does not like something about a team and goes elsewhere....maybe he does not like your manager or Asst GM, who knows.

It's a recurring theme. Yes, I get we can come up with "reasons" for a guy to take less money here and there. I could even come up with reasons where one time a guy with high greed (as in this case) would take half money. But there's a limit to the number of whoppers I can whip up and eat without getting a stomach ache.

[brotherblues]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

IME if the player doesn’t want to sign with you, he’ll usually say so straight away. Are we sure this is that issue, because it sounds like a player just “forgets” about the first offer.

How long after your offers are these signings occurring? If they’re within a few days, I think the player just took the lower offer for whatever reason - playing closer to his home, maybe, he doesn’t see how he’d start for your team, etc. Maybe the game even invokes a little random chance on the end, even when the offer is not close (although if you’re talking about a modern league, $1.8M for one year is still relatively close to $900k for the same 1 year deal). I’d still like to see a better explanation when he sends you that email back saying he’s decided to sign elsewhere, although if random chance is involved that make things tough (“your offer was better but I decided to sign with the A’s anyway, sorry”).

In this case the player just straight up never reacted. Can't remember for how long, maybe a week or 2. The offer remained on "pending" until the moment he signed elsewhere for half the money. I really think it was a glitch/bug.

Other times (i.e. a player rejecting millions only to sign a minor league deal a couple of days later) is just wonky AI.

fwiw I can't even begin to fathom how complicated it must be to have the AI preserve a balance with the logic in these signings while keeping it from being easily exploited by the human players.

[Matt Arnold]

There shouldn't really be any way for an offer to stay pending for that long, they should always give some sort of indication within a couple days. You don't still happen to have a save with it showing that?

[brotherblues]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

There shouldn't really be any way for an offer to stay pending for that long, they should always give some sort of indication within a couple days. You don't still happen to have a save with it showing that?

Yeah I already saved past that point. I'll try to replicate it again next offseason. Might be in a week or something though.

[andyhdz]

Here is what I do:

1. Current player plays well enough that I want to extend him.
2. I open up negotiations
3. He wants so much money that I laugh in his face and offer him what I think he will go for in the open market minus a few bucks.
4. He laughs at my face.
5. I break off negotiations and dont' make him a second offer.
6. He goes to the open market.
7. If another team wants him he'll sign for way over what I think he's worth. Vaya con dios.
8. If he's not getting the offers he wants he'll sometimes come back to me hat in hand wanting to open up negotiations.
9. At that point I can sign him for what I originally offered.

If you dont' make him an initial offer and just wait and see what happens you probably won't get him and he'll sign for much less with another team even when you try and jump in.

[Lordofbrewtown]

oops, wrong thread

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by andyhdz

Here is what I do:

1. Current player plays well enough that I want to extend him.
2. I open up negotiations
3. He wants so much money that I laugh in his face and offer him what I think he will go for in the open market minus a few bucks.
4. He laughs at my face.
5. I break off negotiations and dont' make him a second offer.
6. He goes to the open market.
7. If another team wants him he'll sign for way over what I think he's worth. Vaya con dios.
8. If he's not getting the offers he wants he'll sometimes come back to me hat in hand wanting to open up negotiations.
9. At that point I can sign him for what I originally offered.

If you dont' make him an initial offer and just wait and see what happens you probably won't get him and he'll sign for much less with another team even when you try and jump in.

this right here... timing is everything due to how it works. if you submit an offer when demand is high or possibly when extension demand is too high, you get stuck at that level in their eyes. anything less is offensive to them. 1:1 relationship at one time, assume still.

this 'variable' should clear out if they rot on market for a long period, imo. or at least could offer a bit more than others and still sign them, even if not as much as original.. still should be about competition... a tax for the earlier indiscretion, sure, but not a stone wall. afterall it is driven by greed. that boston red sox SS signing ~5? years ago in june is parallel. he took less than original offer from same team long after initial negotiations and ramifications of reality set in as he continued to not be signed lol... 1 offer shouldn't exclude you later if it is a drastically different amount of money. should be easy to qualify in a few ways.

the risk is they sign in meantime.

not sure if there is a disconnect between offering an extension vs an offer in FA setting the expectation long-term?... been a while. may 'reset' in this context? otherwise, don't submit an extension offer above what you think you'll pay in FA... unlikely to do so anyway, lol.

if you set max cash on hand to unlimited.. in a few years extensions skyrocket and FA costs remain normal or reduced due to excess extension costs. FA start with huge demands... and 2 months later they drop down to reality. if you submit an offer early, even if rejected, you can't sign them later.. 1:1 at that time... once i realized the dynamic, never changed default of 10M max on hand again, lol. can really take advantage of AI's inefficient spending by comparison. they don't know to never extend and always wait for cost to drop in FA.

[Bobfather]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

There shouldn't really be any way for an offer to stay pending for that long, they should always give some sort of indication within a couple days. You don't still happen to have a save with it showing that?

I have seen many times when I have been negotiating with a free agent. I have the best offer then it takes at least a week( Game time) if not longer for him to sign.