thoughts on pitcher development

triordan · 11-08-2020, 09:52 PM

I'm considering hiring a power pitching coach for one of my A level teams and a finesse pitching coach for the other. My thinking is A ball is where players start to weed themselves out before developing more at the AA level.
I would then hire a finesse coach at AA and a power coach at AAA.
Any feedback would be welcomed and appreciated.

pgjocki · 11-08-2020, 11:10 PM

I pick a philosophy and stick to it all the way from Rookie ball through the Majors. I don't want my guys hearing different messages.

I have exactly ZERO evidence that this matters at all.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

CBeisbol · 11-08-2020, 11:37 PM

I agree with both of you

I use different types of coaches, but have no idea if it matters

Tony820 · 11-09-2020, 02:14 PM

It's a question that I still ponder as well.

In my latest save, I'm trying to go mostly power pitchers in draft and trades.......with finesse pitching coaches through R ball to AA, then a neutral pitching coach in AAA. I've got a power pitching coach at the MLB level.

No idea if it's going to work yet, but in theory those coaches should help them develop more control, and hopefully they aren't losing their stuff and velo.

triordan · 11-09-2020, 02:16 PM

if possible, please let me know how things work out. I'm going to try the split approach in my next season.

Calvert98 · 11-09-2020, 05:54 PM

I had a 1st round draft pick for my Orioles, out of college, around 22. Had an Ok first year in the Majors, was hurt part of the time. 3.65 era, about 89 innings

2nd Year, despite a couple odd-ball outings, came out of the gates storming - lights-out stuff, 2.65 era. Then hurt. Ok, bad luck. 85 innings pitched.

Now, he is listed as "fragile", at 25 years old.

So, now I'm thinking - trade him. Trade him now, before he gets hurt again, and get a long-term 3rd, 2nd or SS prospect, and take my chances in FA for #2, #3 starters.

-Cal

Timofmars · 11-09-2020, 08:19 PM

According to the manual, the coach type does 2 things. The coach type can match up with the pitcher type, and that gives them a positive coaching relationship providing a bonus development. And the different coach types have a greater effect on improving the related attributes of all players, where finesse coaches tend to improve control, power improves stuff, and GB improves movement.

So what I do since I have 3 rookie level teams is that I have 1 of each coach type. At that level, I try to put the prospects into the team with the coach that matches their pitcher type. Then at higher levels, I try to have the 3 coach types occupy the positions in order, so A- maybe has finesse, A has power A+ has movement, and AA is back to finesse. Sometimes I take a neutral coach, especially at AAA or ML, since I may trade for older prospects and so wouldn't have been able to control their development, and so don't know what they need to still develop in the end.

So the idea is that rookie league players get maximum overall development to try to make them capable of moving up as quickly as possible. Then as players move up the ranks, I will speed up or slow down their rise to make them stay longer with matching coaches or coaches that teach what they are most underdeveloped in. For example, maybe they are good enough to move up, but I keep them down a bit longer because they need stuff to develop the most and are currently with a power pitching coach.

JerseyPirate · 11-10-2020, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvert98

I had a 1st round draft pick for my Orioles, out of college, around 22. Had an Ok first year in the Majors, was hurt part of the time. 3.65 era, about 89 innings

2nd Year, despite a couple odd-ball outings, came out of the gates storming - lights-out stuff, 2.65 era. Then hurt. Ok, bad luck. 85 innings pitched.

Now, he is listed as "fragile", at 25 years old.

So, now I'm thinking - trade him. Trade him now, before he gets hurt again, and get a long-term 3rd, 2nd or SS prospect, and take my chances in FA for #2, #3 starters.

-Cal

In my experience, fragile young starting pitchers are the WORST type of player. They will never make it through a full season again. My typical young fragile pitcher has to leave around 5 starts each year due to a sore back or dead arm and then has at least 1 DL stint of at least a month. And it usually happens in September right before playoff time.

I agree completely to trade him now while his value is highest. AI doesn't seem to care about injury proneness and I've been able to flip fragile pitchers for top talent numerous times.

CBeisbol · 11-10-2020, 09:44 AM

[QUOTE=JerseyPirate;4712915]In my experience, fragile young starting pitchers are the WORST type of player. They will never make it through a full season again. My typical young fragile pitcher has to leave around 5 starts each year due to a sore back or dead arm and then has at least 1 DL stint of at least a month. And it usually happens in September right before playoff time.(/quote]
Use them differently. As relievers. As piggyback starters

Quote:

I agree completely to trade him now while his value is highest. AI doesn't seem to care about injury proneness and I've been able to flip fragile pitchers for top talent numerous times.

Unless this is the case
Then arbitrage trade them

But, if this is true, it's something the developers need to change

triordan · 11-10-2020, 12:04 PM

from a guestimate, are there more fragile rookies from high school or from college? I've been taking college relievers and turning them into starters in the short season leagues to help them gain experience quicker and the high school guys will be middle relievers on batters faced limits

Calvert98 · 11-15-2020, 03:35 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys on that injury prone SP.

I took your advice, and did trade him at the start of Spring Training; a 1 for 1, for a top 30 MLB ready 3B prospect, also around the same age. I feel ok about the trade (trade setting very hard, favor prospects).

My fans were upset.

So far the 3B prospect is doing well - still needs some development. 269 avg, 301 OBP (needs more patience), 10 HRs, about 33 games into the season.

Checked-in on the SP, and he is 4-1, 3.50 era. And still healthy, but in the long-run for my team, I agree it was the best move and I needed a 3B guy.

-Cal

11-08-2020, 09:52 PM	#1
triordan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 57	thoughts on pitcher development I'm considering hiring a power pitching coach for one of my A level teams and a finesse pitching coach for the other. My thinking is A ball is where players start to weed themselves out before developing more at the AA level. I would then hire a finesse coach at AA and a power coach at AAA. Any feedback would be welcomed and appreciated.

11-08-2020, 11:10 PM	#2
pgjocki All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Maryland - just outside DC Posts: 1,581	I pick a philosophy and stick to it all the way from Rookie ball through the Majors. I don't want my guys hearing different messages. I have exactly ZERO evidence that this matters at all. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk __________________ - - - World Series championships: 1926, 1931, 1934, 1942, 1944, 1946, 1964, 1967, 1982, 2006, 2011

11-08-2020, 11:37 PM	#3
CBeisbol Banned Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Ban land in 3...2... Posts: 2,943	I agree with both of you I use different types of coaches, but have no idea if it matters

11-09-2020, 02:14 PM	#4
Tony820 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 115	It's a question that I still ponder as well. In my latest save, I'm trying to go mostly power pitchers in draft and trades.......with finesse pitching coaches through R ball to AA, then a neutral pitching coach in AAA. I've got a power pitching coach at the MLB level. No idea if it's going to work yet, but in theory those coaches should help them develop more control, and hopefully they aren't losing their stuff and velo.

11-09-2020, 02:16 PM	#5
triordan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 57	if possible, please let me know how things work out. I'm going to try the split approach in my next season.

11-09-2020, 05:54 PM	#6
Calvert98 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 579	I had a 1st round draft pick for my Orioles, out of college, around 22. Had an Ok first year in the Majors, was hurt part of the time. 3.65 era, about 89 innings 2nd Year, despite a couple odd-ball outings, came out of the gates storming - lights-out stuff, 2.65 era. Then hurt. Ok, bad luck. 85 innings pitched. Now, he is listed as "fragile", at 25 years old. So, now I'm thinking - trade him. Trade him now, before he gets hurt again, and get a long-term 3rd, 2nd or SS prospect, and take my chances in FA for #2, #3 starters. -Cal

11-09-2020, 08:19 PM	#7
Timofmars Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 251	According to the manual, the coach type does 2 things. The coach type can match up with the pitcher type, and that gives them a positive coaching relationship providing a bonus development. And the different coach types have a greater effect on improving the related attributes of all players, where finesse coaches tend to improve control, power improves stuff, and GB improves movement. So what I do since I have 3 rookie level teams is that I have 1 of each coach type. At that level, I try to put the prospects into the team with the coach that matches their pitcher type. Then at higher levels, I try to have the 3 coach types occupy the positions in order, so A- maybe has finesse, A has power A+ has movement, and AA is back to finesse. Sometimes I take a neutral coach, especially at AAA or ML, since I may trade for older prospects and so wouldn't have been able to control their development, and so don't know what they need to still develop in the end. So the idea is that rookie league players get maximum overall development to try to make them capable of moving up as quickly as possible. Then as players move up the ranks, I will speed up or slow down their rise to make them stay longer with matching coaches or coaches that teach what they are most underdeveloped in. For example, maybe they are good enough to move up, but I keep them down a bit longer because they need stuff to develop the most and are currently with a power pitching coach.

11-10-2020, 12:04 PM	#10
triordan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 57	from a guestimate, are there more fragile rookies from high school or from college? I've been taking college relievers and turning them into starters in the short season leagues to help them gain experience quicker and the high school guys will be middle relievers on batters faced limits

11-15-2020, 03:35 AM	#11
Calvert98 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 579	Thanks for the feedback guys on that injury prone SP. I took your advice, and did trade him at the start of Spring Training; a 1 for 1, for a top 30 MLB ready 3B prospect, also around the same age. I feel ok about the trade (trade setting very hard, favor prospects). My fans were upset. So far the 3B prospect is doing well - still needs some development. 269 avg, 301 OBP (needs more patience), 10 HRs, about 33 games into the season. Checked-in on the SP, and he is 4-1, 3.50 era. And still healthy, but in the long-run for my team, I agree it was the best move and I needed a 3B guy. -Cal