3-way tie for final postseason berth confusion

actionjackson · 05-30-2020, 12:56 AM

Red Sox, Senators, and White Sox finish with identical 86-76 records, with the Tigers in first at 88-74 in an eight team AL with no divisions. I make it so that the top two teams reach the postseason. I think the game has the tiebreaking method wrong. Apparently IRL in a three way tie (the way I read it anyway), the top two teams in head to head records against each other move on to a one game playoff.

Boston finished 15-9 against Chicago, and 12-12 against Washington, so they were 27-21 in games involving the three teams. Chicago finished 9-15 against Boston, and 13-11 against Washington, so they were 22-26. Washington was 12-12 against Boston, and 11-13 against Chicago, so they were 23-25 in the head to head battles. Therefore, it should be Boston and Washington, which it is, but Washington was the home team, so I flipped home field advantage to Boston because Boston was better at head to head. Excellent. Looking good. I sim the game, and Washington defeats Boston 2-0 to move on...

...Or so I thought. Sim ahead to the next day, and the Senators are playing the White Sox, with the White Sox being the home team. Uh no...So I delete the game. Sim ahead to the next day...Senators @ White Sox again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The playoffs should be getting started now with Senators @ Tigers in the AL, and Pirates @ Cardinals in the NL. What is going on. This is in 19. I have XX, and haven't gotten 21 yet. I'm using 19 because it was the most convenient one to demonstrate something to another poster on the board. I doubt the tiebreaker system has changed between 19 and 21 though, so my question remains...WTF? I want to be able to cancel the Senators/White Sox game, and get going, or at the very least, finish off the regular season. Is there a way to do that? Thanks in advance!

as5680 · 05-30-2020, 08:04 AM

In real life, under current rules at least, there would be two tiebreaker games to resolve a three-way tie. This is the most up to date information I can find on the MLB website.

https://www.mlb.com/news/playoff-tie...les/c-59527184

If this was a three-way tie for second place, I guess the most appropriate comparison on that page would be 'Three-Club Tie for One Wild Card Spot'. It may be possible to do this with just a single game, but I don't know how.

actionjackson · 05-30-2020, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by as5680

In real life, under current rules at least, there would be two tiebreaker games to resolve a three-way tie. This is the most up to date information I can find on the MLB website.

https://www.mlb.com/news/playoff-tie...les/c-59527184

If this was a three-way tie for second place, I guess the most appropriate comparison on that page would be 'Three-Club Tie for One Wild Card Spot'. It may be possible to do this with just a single game, but I don't know how.

Hmmm...Not sure I like a system where the team with the best head to head record among the three teams has to win two games to reach the playoffs, while the 3rd best team gets a bye. I think I'll see if I can change that, and give Boston a bye on the first day, making it Team C (White Sox) @ Team B (Senators), with the winner of that game facing the Team A (Red Sox) in Boston. It just makes more sense to me. Not sure why MLB would do it that way. Thank you for that link though!

actionjackson · 05-30-2020, 04:01 PM

Yay! It worked. Thanks as5680! Washington beat the White Sox 6-1, and the Red Sox beat the Senators 6-2. Home team won in both cases.

as5680 · 05-30-2020, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Hmmm...Not sure I like a system where the team with the best head to head record among the three teams has to win two games to reach the playoffs, while the 3rd best team gets a bye.

I think the key to the idea is that teams get to choose whether they are club A, B or C. The balance then becomes that if you choose to be A, you have to play twice (if you win the first game!) but will be at home. If you choose to be C, you only have to play once but will be on the road.

The team with the best head-to-head will get to choose first - Boston in your example, followed by Washington, leaving Chicago with whichever designation was left!

In my fictional leagues, I ignore this and organise it much like you did in the end. The team with the best overall head-to-head record gets the bye to the second game (and plays at home), then the team with the better record between the other two is at home for the first game.

I always schedule tiebreaker games - especially three-way ties - manually rather than letting the game do it, so I can be sure I get the set-up I want. Anyway, I'm glad you sorted it out!

thehef · 05-30-2020, 07:11 PM

Just fyi, there is no "correct" way for OOTP to handle the scenario described. That's because there is no real-life situation upon which to base that tiebreaker. IOW, while the AL had an 8-team, no division setup for many years (1901 thru 1960), it never had in place a system where the top two teams advanced to the playoffs. Therefore, there is no historical basis for a tiebreaker playoff (two-team, three-team, or otherwise) for 2nd place. (I'm not at all criticizing the actionjackson's format for deviating from history; just noting that there's no basis for OOTP to handle it "correctly"

.)

That said, there is some history to go on for first place ties between three teams:

- First of all, it may be noteworthy that until the 1969 expansion and move to divisional alignment, MLB did not have a format for both leagues; rather, the AL and NL each handled their own tiebreakers.

- In 1940 the AL would've broken a three-way tie with two teams (drawn by lot) playing on one day, and then the winner meeting the third team the next day. Locations, too, would've been drawn by lot.
- In 1948, 1950, 1951 & 1955 it was the same as 1940 except the winner of the first game would host the second game. (In '55 a four-way tiebreaker was also planned, with two games on the first day and the winners meeting on the second day.)
- In 1964 & 1967 the AL would've used a round-robin format, where a team is eliminated with two losses.

As for the NL (which isn't really applicable to actionjackson's scenario), in '21, '56, '59, '64, probably '65, and in '66, it was generally some variation of the round-robin, double-elimination in order to get to two teams.

For 1969, both leagues moved to "two games/two days" for breaking 3-way ties for the new divisions, where two teams faced off the first day and then the winner hosted the third team the next day. I think the matchups for the NL in '69 were by coin toss. For '70 in the AL, the team with the best win % against the other two would've had the option of taking a first-round bye and being the road team in the second game (not sure what the other option was; possibly being the home team for the first game and, if advancing, also the second game).

One thing's for sure (as best as I can tell): Prior to the divisional alignments in 1969, records - neither overall nor head-to-head - were never taken into consideration to determine matchups or home field.

Probably more info than anybody ever wanted to read, but I enjoy this stuff

05-30-2020, 12:56 AM	#1
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,181	3-way tie for final postseason berth confusion Red Sox, Senators, and White Sox finish with identical 86-76 records, with the Tigers in first at 88-74 in an eight team AL with no divisions. I make it so that the top two teams reach the postseason. I think the game has the tiebreaking method wrong. Apparently IRL in a three way tie (the way I read it anyway), the top two teams in head to head records against each other move on to a one game playoff. Boston finished 15-9 against Chicago, and 12-12 against Washington, so they were 27-21 in games involving the three teams. Chicago finished 9-15 against Boston, and 13-11 against Washington, so they were 22-26. Washington was 12-12 against Boston, and 11-13 against Chicago, so they were 23-25 in the head to head battles. Therefore, it should be Boston and Washington, which it is, but Washington was the home team, so I flipped home field advantage to Boston because Boston was better at head to head. Excellent. Looking good. I sim the game, and Washington defeats Boston 2-0 to move on... ...Or so I thought. Sim ahead to the next day, and the Senators are playing the White Sox, with the White Sox being the home team. Uh no...So I delete the game. Sim ahead to the next day...Senators @ White Sox again. Lather, rinse, repeat. The playoffs should be getting started now with Senators @ Tigers in the AL, and Pirates @ Cardinals in the NL. What is going on. This is in 19. I have XX, and haven't gotten 21 yet. I'm using 19 because it was the most convenient one to demonstrate something to another poster on the board. I doubt the tiebreaker system has changed between 19 and 21 though, so my question remains...WTF? I want to be able to cancel the Senators/White Sox game, and get going, or at the very least, finish off the regular season. Is there a way to do that? Thanks in advance!

05-30-2020, 07:11 PM	#6
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	Just fyi, there is no "correct" way for OOTP to handle the scenario described. That's because there is no real-life situation upon which to base that tiebreaker. IOW, while the AL had an 8-team, no division setup for many years (1901 thru 1960), it never had in place a system where the top two teams advanced to the playoffs. Therefore, there is no historical basis for a tiebreaker playoff (two-team, three-team, or otherwise) for 2nd place. (I'm not at all criticizing the actionjackson's format for deviating from history; just noting that there's no basis for OOTP to handle it "correctly".) That said, there is some history to go on for first place ties between three teams: - First of all, it may be noteworthy that until the 1969 expansion and move to divisional alignment, MLB did not have a format for both leagues; rather, the AL and NL each handled their own tiebreakers. - In 1940 the AL would've broken a three-way tie with two teams (drawn by lot) playing on one day, and then the winner meeting the third team the next day. Locations, too, would've been drawn by lot. - In 1948, 1950, 1951 & 1955 it was the same as 1940 except the winner of the first game would host the second game. (In '55 a four-way tiebreaker was also planned, with two games on the first day and the winners meeting on the second day.) - In 1964 & 1967 the AL would've used a round-robin format, where a team is eliminated with two losses. As for the NL (which isn't really applicable to actionjackson's scenario), in '21, '56, '59, '64, probably '65, and in '66, it was generally some variation of the round-robin, double-elimination in order to get to two teams. For 1969, both leagues moved to "two games/two days" for breaking 3-way ties for the new divisions, where two teams faced off the first day and then the winner hosted the third team the next day. I think the matchups for the NL in '69 were by coin toss. For '70 in the AL, the team with the best win % against the other two would've had the option of taking a first-round bye and being the road team in the second game (not sure what the other option was; possibly being the home team for the first game and, if advancing, also the second game). One thing's for sure (as best as I can tell): Prior to the divisional alignments in 1969, records - neither overall nor head-to-head - were never taken into consideration to determine matchups or home field. Probably more info than anybody ever wanted to read, but I enjoy this stuff Last edited by thehef; 05-30-2020 at 07:36 PM.

05-30-2020, 08:04 AM	#2
as5680 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Didcot, England Posts: 1,426	In real life, under current rules at least, there would be two tiebreaker games to resolve a three-way tie. This is the most up to date information I can find on the MLB website. https://www.mlb.com/news/playoff-tie...les/c-59527184 If this was a three-way tie for second place, I guess the most appropriate comparison on that page would be 'Three-Club Tie for One Wild Card Spot'. It may be possible to do this with just a single game, but I don't know how.

05-30-2020, 04:01 PM	#4
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,181	Yay! It worked. Thanks as5680! Washington beat the White Sox 6-1, and the Red Sox beat the Senators 6-2. Home team won in both cases.