Earned Run?

Dazooz · 03-26-2003, 07:01 PM

Just a general baseball question.

Had a guy walk to first, attempted to steal second but catcher threw it into the outfield sending the runner over to 3rd on the error. Then next batter hits a home run. Only 1 earned run was scored. Shouldn't that other run be earned also since he would have scored after the home run anyway?

Gastric ReFlux · 03-26-2003, 07:02 PM

I would think it should be earned.

joshv · 03-26-2003, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dazooz
Just a general baseball question.

Had a guy walk to first, attempted to steal second but catcher threw it into the outfield sending the runner over to 3rd on the error. Then next batter hits a home run. Only 1 earned run was scored. Shouldn't that other run be earned also since he would have scored after the home run anyway?

"No run shall be earned when the runner's advance is aided by an error, a passed ball, or defensive interference or obstruction, if the scorer judges that the run would not have scored without the aid of such misplay." MLB R. 10.18(d).

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/ba...ial_scorer.jsp

Dazooz · 03-26-2003, 07:53 PM

But that is exactly my point, the run would have scored without the error, so it should be earned right?

joshv · 03-26-2003, 07:56 PM

why do you think "the run would have scored without the error?" he could have been thrown out. unless the throw was clearly not in time.

the rule says to give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher.

Scott Vibert · 03-26-2003, 08:18 PM

It would depend on the scoring. If the play was scored a SB with the error moving the runner to 3rd it would be an earned run.

If the play was scored a 2 base error (allowing the runner 2nd and 3rd on the error) it would be an unearned run. This would be the scoring if the batter is assumed to have been out with an accurate throw.

The difference is in the first situation there would have been no way for the runner to be retired before the home run, while in the second situation the run is unearned since the player should have been out had the throw been on the money.

joshv · 03-26-2003, 08:22 PM

if only i spent time writing coherent sentences instead of half thoughts without syntax or gramer

i agree with scott

LivnLegend · 03-26-2003, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by joshv
if only i spent time writing coherent sentences instead of half thoughts without syntax or gramer

Well, if you want to beat ScottVib to the punch, that's the best way to go

sporr · 03-26-2003, 09:17 PM

Rarely in real life (if ever) have I seen a catcher charged with a two base error on a SB attempt.

crazyhorsejohnny · 03-26-2003, 09:21 PM

if there was two outs at the time, both runs should have unearned.

Gastric ReFlux · 03-26-2003, 09:47 PM

Yeah, when I first was going to post here, I was going to say something like it would be earned unless it had been judged the catcher could have thrown the runner out for the third out. But then I realized that if the homerun hitter was scored earned, it couldn't have been that.

So in this case it seems that depending on the number of outs, either both runs would have to be earned, or unearned. There can't be any splitting of the two.

Gastric ReFlux · 03-26-2003, 09:50 PM

Wait, now I see it. If the runner would have been judged to have been out with an accurate throw, even say with nobody out or 1 out, he would be tagged as an unearned run no matter how he gets driven home.

Okay, I should get some sleep.

Dazooz · 03-27-2003, 10:04 AM

Looked up the old game log. It was first inning, 0 outs. Larry Lintz singled. Then attempted to steal second. It says that he was credited for the steal, then took 3rd on the catcher's throwing error. Next batter steps up and hit one out of the park. Only 1 run was credited as earned.

sporr · 03-27-2003, 10:17 AM

That should definitely be an earned run.

Gastric ReFlux · 03-27-2003, 10:36 AM

Thanks Dazooz. If the runner was credited with a steal, then it should definitely have been scored an earned run.

woody5254 · 03-27-2003, 12:43 PM

This reminds me of "You Make the Call"

x94blair3 · 03-27-2003, 02:08 PM

Great discussion. This sort of baseball knowledge is what puts the pressure on OOTP to be as realistic as possible. Plus it's always enjoyable to read an intelligent debate with valid points.

-Nick

ctorg · 03-27-2003, 02:34 PM

I think there are little errors here and there in the game when it comes to earned runs. They're actually somewhat complicated to score compared to what most people think (not us, of course

).

03-26-2003, 07:01 PM	#1
Dazooz Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 193	Earned Run? Just a general baseball question. Had a guy walk to first, attempted to steal second but catcher threw it into the outfield sending the runner over to 3rd on the error. Then next batter hits a home run. Only 1 earned run was scored. Shouldn't that other run be earned also since he would have scored after the home run anyway?

03-26-2003, 09:21 PM	#10
crazyhorsejohnny All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 818	how many outs? if there was two outs at the time, both runs should have unearned.

03-27-2003, 12:43 PM	#16
woody5254 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hector, NY Posts: 6,130	This reminds me of "You Make the Call" __________________ Check out: You Pick Tourney Version 2.0 Standings Thread You Pick The Teams Tourney: Main Thread The Colossal 20th Century Tourney:Main Thread Chicago White Sox(Original Owner:2001-) Baseball Maelstrom -2001,2011,2013 World Series Champions -2002,2010 Maelstrom Tourney Champs Arizona Diamondbacks(2003-) NAHHBL Indianapolis Racers(Expansion Team:1993-)ABC

03-27-2003, 02:08 PM	#17
x94blair3 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 99	Great discussion. This sort of baseball knowledge is what puts the pressure on OOTP to be as realistic as possible. Plus it's always enjoyable to read an intelligent debate with valid points. -Nick __________________ Pudge, R. White, Guillen, Vina, J. Johnson, Urbina....maybe Illitch remembered he owns a baseball team. Either that or he expects a looooonnnnggg NHL holdout.

03-27-2003, 02:34 PM	#18
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I think there are little errors here and there in the game when it comes to earned runs. They're actually somewhat complicated to score compared to what most people think (not us, of course ). __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-26-2003, 07:02 PM	#2
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	I would think it should be earned.

03-26-2003, 07:53 PM	#4
Dazooz Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 193	But that is exactly my point, the run would have scored without the error, so it should be earned right?

03-26-2003, 07:56 PM	#5
joshv Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 7	why do you think "the run would have scored without the error?" he could have been thrown out. unless the throw was clearly not in time. the rule says to give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher.

03-26-2003, 08:18 PM	#6
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,249	It would depend on the scoring. If the play was scored a SB with the error moving the runner to 3rd it would be an earned run. If the play was scored a 2 base error (allowing the runner 2nd and 3rd on the error) it would be an unearned run. This would be the scoring if the batter is assumed to have been out with an accurate throw. The difference is in the first situation there would have been no way for the runner to be retired before the home run, while in the second situation the run is unearned since the player should have been out had the throw been on the money.

03-26-2003, 08:22 PM	#7
joshv Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 7	if only i spent time writing coherent sentences instead of half thoughts without syntax or gramer i agree with scott

03-26-2003, 09:17 PM	#9
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	Rarely in real life (if ever) have I seen a catcher charged with a two base error on a SB attempt.

03-26-2003, 09:47 PM	#11
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Yeah, when I first was going to post here, I was going to say something like it would be earned unless it had been judged the catcher could have thrown the runner out for the third out. But then I realized that if the homerun hitter was scored earned, it couldn't have been that. So in this case it seems that depending on the number of outs, either both runs would have to be earned, or unearned. There can't be any splitting of the two.

03-26-2003, 09:50 PM	#12
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Wait, now I see it. If the runner would have been judged to have been out with an accurate throw, even say with nobody out or 1 out, he would be tagged as an unearned run no matter how he gets driven home. Okay, I should get some sleep.

03-27-2003, 10:04 AM	#13
Dazooz Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 193	Looked up the old game log. It was first inning, 0 outs. Larry Lintz singled. Then attempted to steal second. It says that he was credited for the steal, then took 3rd on the catcher's throwing error. Next batter steps up and hit one out of the park. Only 1 run was credited as earned.

03-27-2003, 10:17 AM	#14
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	That should definitely be an earned run.

03-27-2003, 10:36 AM	#15
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Thanks Dazooz. If the runner was credited with a steal, then it should definitely have been scored an earned run.