Mix 4 and 5 man rotation?

daves · 11-26-2018, 12:32 PM

Not sure to go with a 4 man rotation or 5 man rotation. Is there an easy way to have both? I prefer 4, but there are times 5 works best. Does always start the highest rested give you a 4/5 man option? Does having a 4 man rotation with an emergency SP work?

Déjà Bru · 11-26-2018, 12:43 PM

This is a good question in that I just had a very good experience in the playoffs with a 4-man rotation. The fifth guy, eh, he was better as an emergency SP / long relief.

That's the thing, though. There are no injuries in PT and therefore I don't think accumulative pitcher abuse is a factor. So, if you do go with a 4-man rotation, I'd say the only thing you need to watch for is fatigue recovery between starts. You definitely want your SP 100% rested.

Orcin · 11-26-2018, 12:50 PM

The best way to accomplish this is with a 5-man rotation set to "always start highest-rested". Your top starters will get an extra 2-4 starts per season without risking a tired starter or reliever being used.

Kushiel · 11-26-2018, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

The best way to accomplish this is with a 5-man rotation set to "always start highest-rested". Your top starters will get an extra 2-4 starts per season without risking a tired starter or reliever being used.

I do not want any level of tired pitcher entering the game..I use a 5 man rotation during the season and a 4 man rotation during the playoffs with all the off days. I use the rotation set to "always start highest-rested" as Orcin states. It has worked well for me giving the top of the rotation a few more starts but keeping them fresh..

daves · 11-26-2018, 01:10 PM

I am tempted to try a 2 or 3 man rotation with a few emergency SP's. If I shorten the starter use I will get a lot of bullpen work.

genuvar · 11-26-2018, 02:45 PM

I went with a 5 man in pre1940. It was the best way to ensure someone is always coming in rested. Of course these guys also pitched complete games and I only had a 2-3 man pen.

Echo127 · 11-26-2018, 03:30 PM

I dont think a 4-man rotation is viable in Perfect Team as the SPs need that 5th day off to get fully rested. The best you can do is check in often and arrange to skip your 5th starter (via 7-day lineups or "strict" pitching order) whenever off days allow it.

elutz31 · 11-26-2018, 04:24 PM

A 4 man rotation is more than viable for the regular season and the best option in my opinion. I've run them exclusively on all 3 of my teams with pitchers of varying ability. I've never run into where a starter was tired for their turn in the rotation at any point in the season. In the playoffs I drop it to a 3 man rotation without anyone being tired as there is always 2 travel days.

There is likely going to be a big difference between your top 2 or 3 starters and your 5th starter at least early on. 32 starts on your worst pitcher instead of 8 more starts from each of your better pitchers doesn't sound like a recipe for success. You'll likely never win any season awards with a 5 man rotation as the 4 man rotations will dominate the wins and strikeout categories.

Echo127 · 11-26-2018, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elutz31

A 4 man rotation is more than viable for the regular season and the best option in my opinion. I've run them exclusively on all 3 of my teams with pitchers of varying ability. I've never run into where a starter was tired for their turn in the rotation at any point in the season.

How is that possible? My pitchers *always* need 5 days off to get fully rested. Are you counting ~75% rested as "not tired"?

daves · 11-26-2018, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo127

How is that possible? My pitchers *always* need 5 days off to get fully rested. Are you counting ~75% rested as "not tired"?

I think a quicker hook and more long relief or emergency starters make this work.

Kushiel · 11-26-2018, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elutz31

A 4 man rotation is more than viable for the regular season and the best option in my opinion. I've run them exclusively on all 3 of my teams with pitchers of varying ability. I've never run into where a starter was tired for their turn in the rotation at any point in the season. In the playoffs I drop it to a 3 man rotation without anyone being tired as there is always 2 travel days.

There is likely going to be a big difference between your top 2 or 3 starters and your 5th starter at least early on. 32 starts on your worst pitcher instead of 8 more starts from each of your better pitchers doesn't sound like a recipe for success. You'll likely never win any season awards with a 5 man rotation as the 4 man rotations will dominate the wins and strikeout categories.

Two out of three seasons one of my starters has won the pitching triple crown using a 5 man rotation. Your thinking is completely off base here.

daves · 11-26-2018, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiel

Two out of three seasons one of my starters has won the pitching triple crown using a 5 man rotation. Your thinking is completely off base here.

Was it fixed 5 man or Always start the highest rested?

Kushiel · 11-26-2018, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves

Was it fixed 5 man or Always start the highest rested?

I use "always start highest rested." I want my best pitchers pitching but I want them not tired. Mike Scott just won the pitching triple crown in AA with 35 starts.

elutz31 · 11-26-2018, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiel

I use "always start highest rested." I want my best pitchers pitching but I want them not tired. Mike Scott just won the pitching triple crown in AA with 35 starts.

What were his numbers?

Kushiel · 11-26-2018, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elutz31

What were his numbers?

Thalion · 11-26-2018, 07:12 PM

I would think stamina has a lot to do with it. Not just for pitch counts but for recovery rate as well.

elutz31 · 11-26-2018, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiel

25-5, 1.88 ERA, and 300+ strikeouts(I forgot the exact on them)

Yeah that is quite impressive regardless of having less starts. I may have been a bit off base in regards to being able to win some of the season awards when you have a Mike Scott or Randy Johnson-esk starter as your ace. However, I've had excellent success with the 4-man rotations and the more 4 man rotations in the league the less likely people with 5-man rotations will be to able to win some of the awards.

I've seen a 4 man rotation with Randy Johnson that was 26-4 2.40 era and 370 K. I've personally had a 96 rated Walter Johnson win both the pitcher of the year and MVP the past 2 seasons in single and double A. This past season he was 25-2 with a 2.09 era in 288.1 with 291 K in 41 starts. Jon Gray 18-9 2.93 era in 40 starts. David Price 12-13 3.67 era in 43 starts. Len Barker 21-8 3.23 era in 41 starts. My home games are all in hitter friendly parks.

The original question was whether or not it was viable option. If there is a drop in effectiveness pitching at 75%-80% rested I believe it's negligible and 7 or 8 more starts of your better pitchers in my opinion more than makes up for it.

Echo127 · 11-26-2018, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elutz31

The original question was whether or not it was viable option. If there is a drop in effectiveness pitching at 75%-80% rested I believe it's negligible and 7 or 8 more starts of your better pitchers in my opinion more than makes up for it.

I'm gonna do some completely unscientific number-crunching and see what I come up with.

Let's say a pitcher loses 10% effectiveness pitching on 4 days rest. And let's give your 1+2 pitchers a value of "3" and your 3-5 pitchers a value of "1".

On 5 days rest over a 20 game stretch, the 5 man rotation provides (3+3+1+1+1)×4=36 pts of value. Over the same stretch the 4-man rotation would provide (3+3+1+1)×0.9×5=36pts of value.

Well dang, I did not expect that to happen, lol. And how much "value" an 8th bullpen pitcher or extra bat is worth to the 4-man rotation option is obviously not factored in.

Anyways, what this says to me is that with the correct roster and assuming that the impact of 4 days rest on a player is relatively small, it would be viable. But if you've only got 1 elite pitcher or if the gap between your elite/not-elite pitchers is smaller or if the effect of 4 days rest on performance is any more substantial it probably wouldn't be worth it.

And IMO the values I proposed are biased to making the 4-man rotation work, so I'mma stick with the 5-man.

Kushiel · 11-26-2018, 08:06 PM

Whatever works for us individually is good and time will tell. I was raised in the day of the 4 man rotation and that is still baseball to me. However I would need a longer period of time than this beta to determine how feasible the 4 man rotation is. I believe as a team progresses up the league ladder that drop off will be felt stronger. I see the teams in the triple A that I am in now and I see stronger teams on paper than I have dealt with so far. That is good and right in PT. But the next level will tighten up a little more. Then as time goes by there will be more, stronger, teams rising to the Perfect tier. That is when that dropoff may start to hurt.

Bunktown Ballers · 11-26-2018, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves

Not sure to go with a 4 man rotation or 5 man rotation. Is there an easy way to have both? I prefer 4, but there are times 5 works best. Does always start the highest rested give you a 4/5 man option? Does having a 4 man rotation with an emergency SP work?

All depends on the days off. I'm disabled so I get to edit each game if I wish during the day. Earlier day starters are more capable of starting on 4 days rest than recent players. I'll sometimes start a certain pitcher on 3 days rest bc he will be 100% rested. My preference is to never start a pitcher without him being 100% rested. Just me.

BB
Louisiana Crawdads

11-26-2018, 12:32 PM	#1
daves Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,845	Mix 4 and 5 man rotation? Not sure to go with a 4 man rotation or 5 man rotation. Is there an easy way to have both? I prefer 4, but there are times 5 works best. Does always start the highest rested give you a 4/5 man option? Does having a 4 man rotation with an emergency SP work? __________________

11-26-2018, 12:43 PM	#2
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,725	This is a good question in that I just had a very good experience in the playoffs with a 4-man rotation. The fifth guy, eh, he was better as an emergency SP / long relief. That's the thing, though. There are no injuries in PT and therefore I don't think accumulative pitcher abuse is a factor. So, if you do go with a 4-man rotation, I'd say the only thing you need to watch for is fatigue recovery between starts. You definitely want your SP 100% rested. __________________ - Bru

11-26-2018, 01:10 PM	#5
daves Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,845	I am tempted to try a 2 or 3 man rotation with a few emergency SP's. If I shorten the starter use I will get a lot of bullpen work. __________________

11-26-2018, 08:06 PM	#19
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,810	Whatever works for us individually is good and time will tell. I was raised in the day of the 4 man rotation and that is still baseball to me. However I would need a longer period of time than this beta to determine how feasible the 4 man rotation is. I believe as a team progresses up the league ladder that drop off will be felt stronger. I see the teams in the triple A that I am in now and I see stronger teams on paper than I have dealt with so far. That is good and right in PT. But the next level will tighten up a little more. Then as time goes by there will be more, stronger, teams rising to the Perfect tier. That is when that dropoff may start to hurt. __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

11-26-2018, 12:50 PM	#3
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,849	The best way to accomplish this is with a 5-man rotation set to "always start highest-rested". Your top starters will get an extra 2-4 starts per season without risking a tired starter or reliever being used.

11-26-2018, 02:45 PM	#6
genuvar Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 96	I went with a 5 man in pre1940. It was the best way to ensure someone is always coming in rested. Of course these guys also pitched complete games and I only had a 2-3 man pen.

11-26-2018, 03:30 PM	#7
Echo127 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 84	I dont think a 4-man rotation is viable in Perfect Team as the SPs need that 5th day off to get fully rested. The best you can do is check in often and arrange to skip your 5th starter (via 7-day lineups or "strict" pitching order) whenever off days allow it.

11-26-2018, 04:24 PM	#8
elutz31 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 108	A 4 man rotation is more than viable for the regular season and the best option in my opinion. I've run them exclusively on all 3 of my teams with pitchers of varying ability. I've never run into where a starter was tired for their turn in the rotation at any point in the season. In the playoffs I drop it to a 3 man rotation without anyone being tired as there is always 2 travel days. There is likely going to be a big difference between your top 2 or 3 starters and your 5th starter at least early on. 32 starts on your worst pitcher instead of 8 more starts from each of your better pitchers doesn't sound like a recipe for success. You'll likely never win any season awards with a 5 man rotation as the 4 man rotations will dominate the wins and strikeout categories.

11-26-2018, 07:12 PM	#16
Thalion Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 413	I would think stamina has a lot to do with it. Not just for pitch counts but for recovery rate as well.