ERA Problem for some pitchers - Historical Replay

metsgeek · 03-23-2003, 01:19 AM

I hope this isn't a duplicate....couldn't find reference to it....

As has been done by many other people, I decided to try a historical replay from 1900 through to the present, just to see the numbers that come up

I'm importing the rookies each year into the draft pool and simming through the draft and season.

Finances were turned off.
Trades and Injuries were set to "Low"
...and I've been recalculating for historical accuracy each season.

Despite some interesting developments (namely Babe Ruth not developing into much of a slugger), no problems were encountered until 1929 and 1930.

Each year, the AL Cy Young was listed as having a 0.00 ERA. This was obviously an error....here are the stats lines for the 2 players:

1929 Winner
AL: Fred Frankhouse, CHA, (Record: 8-27, 0.00 ERA, 253.1IP, 435 Hits, 61 Ks, 122 BB)

1930 Winner
AL: Jim Wright, NYA, (Record: 6-25, 0.00 ERA, 234.2IP, 366 Hits,86 Ks, 173 BB)

With the WHIP that each of them had, it's obviously the ERA flipped.

I remember hearing something about this in OOTP4. Looks like it wasn't fixed for this version. Can we get a fix in the next patch?

Steve Kuffrey · 03-23-2003, 01:28 AM

I was not aware of this but I if it is the 255 issue I don't know if it can be fixed or not with an update or patch.

metsgeek · 03-23-2003, 02:50 AM

Dude, you are ALWAYS online.

I wish I could get such speedy answers everywhere. I did speak with another friend about it, and he does think it's the 255 issue.

Where are there other posts on it, so I can reference it?

dbacks · 03-23-2003, 02:46 PM

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...ight=255+issue

Is this what you're looking for?

metsgeek · 03-23-2003, 03:04 PM

That's it...Thanks

Doesn't look like they've done anything on it >

MJohnson · 03-23-2003, 07:50 PM

It is a very difficult problem to fix because it would involve a complete overhaul of the game.

This may not be the best explanation of it, but let me try:
Earned Runs are saved as 1 byte (or 8 bits). The largest number allowed in an unsigned integer is 255 or in binary 1111 1111. When a pitcher gives up his 256th run, his earned runs become

1 0000 0000

Since only 8 bits are saved, he gets credited with having given up 0000 0000, or 0 runs.

To avoid this, earned runs must be saved as 2 bytes, then a pitcher could in theory give up 65,535 runs before an error.

This would not occupy much more memory, 1 byte per player, or one character in the players name. The big problem in changing this occurs in the code of the game because each time a reference to a players earned runs occur, the reference must be changed from 1 byte (unsigned char) to 2 bytes (unsigned int).

This could be very cumbersome and probably cause many problems but it is something I would like to see changed.

metsgeek · 03-24-2003, 01:11 AM

I don't know much about programming, but I agree it sounds like a lot of work.

What I don't understand is why it wasn't fixed for OOTP5. The problem was identified back in March of 2002.

That seems like enough of an advance notice.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-24-2003, 01:40 AM

As has been mentioned before "in 95%" of the leagues that are played it is not an issue, so not sure if/when it will be addressed.

Le Grande Orange · 03-24-2003, 02:46 AM

IIRC another part of the problem was that changing that variable would make importing leagues from older OOTP versions much more difficult.

This is apparently true for a number of requested features.

There might come a day where OOTP players will have to choose between new features or lose some older version compatibility. A difficult choice...

MJohnson · 03-24-2003, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey
As has been mentioned before "in 95%" of the leagues that are played it is not an issue, so not sure if/when it will be addressed.

This 255 bug in terms of ERA usually occurs in the 20's and 30's, when baseball experienced an offensive boom and teams continue to use pitchers who should not be pitching (whether this is due to lack of depth, bad rotation AI, or the use of a 'modern' schedule in a historical league is debatable. ) This bug also appears with RBI, usually in extremely good solo Colorado Rockies teams or leagues who play 200 or so game seasons.

03-23-2003, 01:19 AM	#1
metsgeek Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 5,450	ERA Problem for some pitchers - Historical Replay I hope this isn't a duplicate....couldn't find reference to it.... As has been done by many other people, I decided to try a historical replay from 1900 through to the present, just to see the numbers that come up I'm importing the rookies each year into the draft pool and simming through the draft and season. Finances were turned off. Trades and Injuries were set to "Low" ...and I've been recalculating for historical accuracy each season. Despite some interesting developments (namely Babe Ruth not developing into much of a slugger), no problems were encountered until 1929 and 1930. Each year, the AL Cy Young was listed as having a 0.00 ERA. This was obviously an error....here are the stats lines for the 2 players: 1929 Winner AL: Fred Frankhouse, CHA, (Record: 8-27, 0.00 ERA, 253.1IP, 435 Hits, 61 Ks, 122 BB) 1930 Winner AL: Jim Wright, NYA, (Record: 6-25, 0.00 ERA, 234.2IP, 366 Hits,86 Ks, 173 BB) With the WHIP that each of them had, it's obviously the ERA flipped. I remember hearing something about this in OOTP4. Looks like it wasn't fixed for this version. Can we get a fix in the next patch? __________________ Commissioner - PBRL - Just finished 2009 109 seasons and still running strong!!!

03-23-2003, 01:28 AM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,024	I was not aware of this but I if it is the 255 issue I don't know if it can be fixed or not with an update or patch. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-23-2003, 02:50 AM	#3
metsgeek Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 5,450	Dude, you are ALWAYS online. I wish I could get such speedy answers everywhere. I did speak with another friend about it, and he does think it's the 255 issue. Where are there other posts on it, so I can reference it? __________________ Commissioner - PBRL - Just finished 2009 109 seasons and still running strong!!!

03-23-2003, 03:04 PM	#5
metsgeek Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 5,450	That's it...Thanks Doesn't look like they've done anything on it > __________________ Commissioner - PBRL - Just finished 2009 109 seasons and still running strong!!!

03-24-2003, 01:11 AM	#7
metsgeek Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 5,450	I don't know much about programming, but I agree it sounds like a lot of work. What I don't understand is why it wasn't fixed for OOTP5. The problem was identified back in March of 2002. That seems like enough of an advance notice. __________________ Commissioner - PBRL - Just finished 2009 109 seasons and still running strong!!!

03-23-2003, 02:46 PM	#4
dbacks Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,735	http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...ight=255+issue Is this what you're looking for?

03-23-2003, 07:50 PM	#6
MJohnson Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: under an overpass Posts: 459	It is a very difficult problem to fix because it would involve a complete overhaul of the game. This may not be the best explanation of it, but let me try: Earned Runs are saved as 1 byte (or 8 bits). The largest number allowed in an unsigned integer is 255 or in binary 1111 1111. When a pitcher gives up his 256th run, his earned runs become 1 0000 0000 Since only 8 bits are saved, he gets credited with having given up 0000 0000, or 0 runs. To avoid this, earned runs must be saved as 2 bytes, then a pitcher could in theory give up 65,535 runs before an error. This would not occupy much more memory, 1 byte per player, or one character in the players name. The big problem in changing this occurs in the code of the game because each time a reference to a players earned runs occur, the reference must be changed from 1 byte (unsigned char) to 2 bytes (unsigned int). This could be very cumbersome and probably cause many problems but it is something I would like to see changed.

03-24-2003, 01:40 AM	#8
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,024	As has been mentioned before "in 95%" of the leagues that are played it is not an issue, so not sure if/when it will be addressed. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-24-2003, 02:46 AM	#9
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	IIRC another part of the problem was that changing that variable would make importing leagues from older OOTP versions much more difficult. This is apparently true for a number of requested features. There might come a day where OOTP players will have to choose between new features or lose some older version compatibility. A difficult choice...