Loading game still hangs at Loading Logos 82%

[koohead]

Well, still looking for help here. In OOTP18, my game would hang for 5 minutes or so on Loading Logos 85%. Dealt with it. Just converted the save into OOTP19 this weekend and it now hangs for just about the same amount of time at 82%. Difference now though is I have a new PC (much better CPU, more RAM).
It's a full minors MLB universe with the Arizona Fall League and 4 Indy leagues (8-10 teams each). It's not a huge universe at all.
Looking at my news/html/images folder, it's about 68mb and my team logos folder itself has about 2100 files in it.
anyone have suggestions? or is this normal and what others are seeing?

thx

[DustyElbows]

I had a similar thing happen this weekend when I tried to start a historical game with full minor leagues. It hung at something like 74% both times I tried it. The second time I gave it an hour and it was still hung when I came back.

[koohead]

Luckily I've never had it hang THAT long. though will add I've noticed that while it's hanging for those 5 minutes if I click around, I see 'Not Responding' and then yes, it'll never finish. If I leave it along and walk away and come back in 10 minutes or so, it eventually loads.

[battists]

This is neither here nor there regarding your problem, but that is actually a pretty large universe. MLB by itself is pretty damn big.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NoOne]

is this an SSD or an HDD?

an hdd is only going to run through tens of thousands thousands of tiny files, like history, messages, logos etc, at about ~4megabytes/sec.

so, if you have a similar storage device as before, it will take about the same amount of time to load regardless of cpu and other specs.

if you went form an hdd to an ssd and it's still slow, then i'd be worried.

you can defragment that folder with certain defrag software, as opposed to entire drive. also, the MS defrag may skip files that small completely without a choice to you. a nice little free 3rd party defrag software may improve loading speeds by getting the data all lined up so to speak, and in some contexts may be a noticeale improvement.

[koohead]

Originally Posted by battists

This is neither here nor there regarding your problem, but that is actually a pretty large universe. MLB by itself is pretty damn big.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good point. Which I guess makes me wonder if those that play with Feeder leagues and full internationals see similar hangs on loading logos?? gotta huh?

[koohead]

Originally Posted by NoOne

is this an SSD or an HDD?

an hdd is only going to run through tens of thousands thousands of tiny files, like history, messages, logos etc, at about ~4megabytes/sec.

so, if you have a similar storage device as before, it will take about the same amount of time to load regardless of cpu and other specs.

if you went form an hdd to an ssd and it's still slow, then i'd be worried.

you can defragment that folder with certain defrag software, as opposed to entire drive. also, the MS defrag may skip files that small completely without a choice to you. a nice little free 3rd party defrag software may improve loading speeds by getting the data all lined up so to speak, and in some contexts may be a noticeale improvement.

HDD...though I do have a SSD that I use just for my boot and program installs...pointed data directory to my HDD. It's a brand new PC but I'll try the defrag.
Thanks for the info on HDD speed...but at 4mb/s I should be able to load 240mb of logos in about a minute...not 70mb in 5+?? or am I doing the math wrong.

[koohead]

OK so now I have to ask the question about running OOTP completely off the SSD and the pros-cons of that. This is actually my first gaming box with a SSD. What's the lifespan of them? As I understand it, SSDs have a finite number of write cycles to them? Is the number so large that I don't have to worry about it? or would I be looking to replace it every couple years (especially if I run OOTP off it which as I recall has very high disk I/O)?

[Lawn Loaf]

Have to ask: Building a universe right now with over 3000 teams. SSD and up to date hardware. Am I chasing a unicorn? What is the maximum universe that should be expected to be handled with up to date hardware?

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by koohead

HDD...though I do have a SSD that I use just for my boot and program installs...pointed data directory to my HDD. It's a brand new PC but I'll try the defrag.
Thanks for the info on HDD speed...but at 4mb/s I should be able to load 240mb of logos in about a minute...not 70mb in 5+?? or am I doing the math wrong.

well, it's logos, messages etc.. all that small stuff.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by koohead

OK so now I have to ask the question about running OOTP completely off the SSD and the pros-cons of that. This is actually my first gaming box with a SSD. What's the lifespan of them? As I understand it, SSDs have a finite number of write cycles to them? Is the number so large that I don't have to worry about it? or would I be looking to replace it every couple years (especially if I run OOTP off it which as I recall has very high disk I/O)?

~6 years ago the cheapies had a 75tb lifespan or maybe that was half-life? i bet they are better now. technically, they can wear out, but not likely while you own that pc/laptop or even the next one.

you likely have nothing to worry about.. . may want to google for specs to make sure, of course. even at ~70tb i bet heavy use for a personal computer is still 10-12 years.

so, definitely put windows page file on ssd, if you did not. make sure it never uses hdd for that. don't worry about any article wrteen before recent years about how to save the life of your ssd. i still think ootp is hard on storage deveices based on resource monity info, but you got the ssd for its speed. use it, since it won't die anytime soon.

i'd keep music and media/movie/tv files on your HDD. you gain nothing from them on ssd and they are large chunks of writes, typically. storage device aren't that critical to speed of your pc... simply loads stuff into RAM. that initial load of any used data into RAM is all it ever affects time-wise.

[koohead]

Thank you for the reassurance.
While goofing around last night I did 2 things...analyzed my brand new HDD which to my surprise was already 24% fragmented (just from copying old league files apparantly). So ran a defrag on that.
Also found a utility called SsdReady. apparantly it's a tool that runs in the background and monitors your rw activity and predicts SSD lifespan. Have it chugging along on my work laptop at the moment and it's predicting 11 years. Considering EVERYTHING is loaded on this SSD in the laptop I'm growing more confident that an SSD can handle OOTP for at least 5 years. Will fire it up tonight for a month of sim and see what it spits out and report back here.

[NoOne]

try crystaldiskinfo -- freeware. think mine says 96% after 5 or 6 years. (higher being better) i bet that's guesstimate you have is a nightmare scenario or something.

i do not have ootp/data on ssd, but most anything else is.

[koohead]

Well, moved everything over to the SSD...Loading Logos still hung at 85% for about 4-5 minutes. Simmed a couple weeks, and SsdReady reported my disk would have about 2 years of life. Granted...that's including loading the game (though I presumed that would be all reads) and save the game after each week. But still. seems shorter than I expected. I could monitor it for a bit longer, but without a significant improvement in loading speed, not seeing a reason to move it to the SSD.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Don't worry you will not burn through your SSD I've seen thousands of 10+ year old SSD's used in business environments and they usually have above 50-60% of life left still.

1 of our main daily driver drives has over 10,000 gb written and its at 98% life that after 2 years of continual use.

A 960gb SSD is about 200 USD on Amazon so I see no reason not to run everything from an SSD at this point in tech history. Granted some AAA FPS games are 60 gbs each but your still able to have a dozen or so installed at any 1 moment.

I would backup your logo directly and create a fresh one from scratch then start to move over only the logos that you use. Maybe 1 league at a time to see where its hanging at.

I have 5000+ logos and my universe (full ootp setup -cuba -Australia) takes seconds to launch.

So it something in your logo directly must be hanging the load time up. You have to dive into it and see what it is. Could be 1 corrupt file that forces OOTP to timeout and that is why your load time is taking so long.

Just a theory but I would bet on a file or files to be causing this problem and not your computer hardware or software.

[koohead]

Thanks...appreciate you confirming that your load time is in seconds and not minutes. Gives me hope

You suggested removing logos from the folder and only moving the ones that I use in. I kind of assumed that the folder only contains the logos that are being used? Maybe I'm looking at the wrong folder all along? When I referred to my folder having 2100 files I was looking at the news/html/images/team logos folder? Is there another one I should investigate?

[NoOne]

remember not to defrag on ssd since i mentioned that earlier.

other note, it still shouldn't take 4-5 minutes? i've never loaded a league that large, i guess. 30t, mlb and 6mil leagues with real logos and jerseys etc is <1min for sure.

any custom pic files? try converting to a more compressed and smaller file size. if it makes sense... if not a large amount of data, it won't help.

i'd still try to troubleshoot it. find someone with similar sized league etc. maybe it is proportional and i am wrong.

[koohead]

I did find 5 logo files that were of the "large" variety..180+kb. Seemed they were not scaled to 150x150. So I did scale those down...but still taking minutes to load. Everything in that team logos folder is now less than 50kb....all the way down to 1 or 2kb if I remember correctly for those little tiny images.

I'm going to move all those files out of the folder tonight and see what happens. maybe i've been looking into the wrong root cause all along

Also found a KB article on how to enable trace logging. Will probably give that a whirl and hopefully it has timestamps and I can see if I can match up the "hang" to something that'll give me a clue.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by koohead

I did find 5 logo files that were of the "large" variety..180+kb. Seemed they were not scaled to 150x150. So I did scale those down...but still taking minutes to load. Everything in that team logos folder is now less than 50kb....all the way down to 1 or 2kb if I remember correctly for those little tiny images.

I'm going to move all those files out of the folder tonight and see what happens. maybe i've been looking into the wrong root cause all along

Also found a KB article on how to enable trace logging. Will probably give that a whirl and hopefully it has timestamps and I can see if I can match up the "hang" to something that'll give me a clue.

In OOTP go to settings then advanced and look at your custom path folder. See if its the one in documents or program files or under steam folder.

Should be something like this for team logos if its using your documents folder as the data path:
C:\Users\USERNAME\Documents\Out of the Park Developments\OOTP Baseball 19\logos\nicknames

Move that directory to your desktop and open OOTP and your universe without it and see what happens. There is also one for caps, jersey, etc. Whatever extra stuff you have loaded up.

Something in one of your folders is causing your problem. If you were to start with a new OOTP data folder and a new install and a new universe I would wager you wouldn't have any loading time problems.

[koohead]

well...it's definitely not a file in news\html\images\team_logos...moved everything out of there and the load hung at the same point.

Enabled trace and couple things I noticed...
1. not 5 minutes...more like 3...but still :P
2. The delay seems to actually occur at "loading faces". this is where the trace file shows a 3 minute gap (and what appears to be a memory utilization chart. ). League and team logos appears at the end of the memory table.

I'll open an official Support ticket and upload this trace file...but if anyone see's anything wonky in this snip I'd appreciate any tips/suggestions. thx!

2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Fictional Baseball League - deleted all star game events
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Fictional Baseball League - created all star game events, allstar_date=07/14/2000
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = [league redacted] League - deleted all star game events
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = [league redacted] League - created all star game events, allstar_date=07/18/2000
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Nippon Baseball Ni-Gun League - deleted all star game events
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Nippon Baseball Ni-Gun League - created all star game events, allstar_date=07/31/2000
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = *** Double A - deleted all star game events
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = *** Double A - created all star game events, allstar_date=07/17/2000
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Division A Baseball League - deleted all star game events
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Division A Baseball League - created all star game events, allstar_date=07/24/2000
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Liga Mexicana de Beisbol - deleted all star game events
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Liga Mexicana de Beisbol - created all star game events, allstar_date=06/06/2000
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Baseball Challenge League - deleted all star game events
2018-08-01 16:39:48 make_allstar_game_events: League = Baseball Challenge League - created all star game events, allstar_date=05/11/2000
2018-08-01 16:39:49 check_all_picture_files: picture_check_mode_next_time == PCM_SKIP_PICTURE_CHECK -> bail out
2018-08-01 16:39:49 clear_faces: Closing faces objects
2018-08-01 16:39:49 load_faces: Loading faces
Memory info "load_database_files" in bytes:
Title PageFaultCount PeakWorkingSetSize WorkingSetSize QuotaPeakPagedPoolUsage QuotaPagedPoolUsage QuotaPeakNonPagedPoolUsage QuotaNonPagedPoolUsage PagefileUsage PeakPagefileUsage
On Start 256952 603144192 599605248 500120 387360 49016 48456 593723392 597512192
Title PageFaultCountDiff PeakWorkingSetSizeDiff WorkingSetSizeDiff QuotaPeakPagedPoolUsageDiff QuotaPagedPoolUsageDiff QuotaPeakNonPagedPoolUsageDiff QuotaNonPagedPoolUsageDiff PagefileUsageDiff PeakPagefileUsageDiff
Loaded world 15978 59744256 63283200 0 624 0 408 64221184 60432384
Cleared default jerseys and caps 673 1884160 901120 0 -2016 0 136 339968 1884160
Loaded jerseys 7702 28663808 28594176 0 0 3792 3672 28749824 28258304
Loaded caps 1802 6316032 6316032 0 0 816 816 6328320 6328320
Loaded names 50141 25157632 25423872 0 0 408 408 26157056 25899008
Loaded teams 10965 42180608 42967040 0 0 400 408 43737088 42942464
Loaded parks 754 1929216 1232896 0 0 8 0 1261568 1941504
Loaded weather 486 1241088 135168 0 -416 0 0 94208 1269760
Loaded injuries 481 151552 114688 0 208 0 0 106496 106496
Loaded off-fields injuries 456 20480 12288 0 0 0 0 118784 118784
Loaded coaches 3075 8867840 10715136 0 0 0 0 10948608 9093120
Loaded players 294863 1058070528 1058070528 0 0 8016 8024 1081954304 1081954304
Loaded scouting sets 1951 6135808 6135808 0 208 8 0 6225920 6225920
Loaded human manager 501 2019328 200704 0 0 0 0 176128 2027520
Loaded contract offers 9822 36540416 38359040 0 1872 400 408 38313984 36462592
Loaded trades 21694 49582080 49582080 0 832 688 816 51105792 51105792
Loaded messages 1867 5787648 5787648 0 -2704 264 136 5574656 5574656
Initialized names 510 2068480 233472 0 0 8 0 229376 2080768
Loaded storylines 504 24576 200704 0 0 0 0 77824 0
Loaded games in progress 514 434176 253952 0 0 0 0 249856 327680
Teams checked 562 16384 421888 0 0 0 0 172032 0
League and team logos loaded 454 421888 8192 0 -208 0 0 0 172032
Loaded faces 20836 49217536 51060736 0 3152 136 -544 52801536 50950144
Title PageFaultCount PeakWorkingSetSize WorkingSetSize QuotaPeakPagedPoolUsage QuotaPagedPoolUsage QuotaPeakNonPagedPoolUsage QuotaNonPagedPoolUsage PagefileUsage PeakPagefileUsage
On End 705543 1995960320 1994113024 500120 387456 63960 63144 2017157120 2019004416
2018-08-01 16:42:45 clear_almanac_list: Closing alamanc list
2018-08-01 16:42:45 APP_FRAMEWORK::clear_bookmark_page_links: Closing recent_page_links
2018-08-01 16:42:45 APP_FRAMEWORK::clear_bookmark_page_links: Closing recent_page_links
2018-08-01 16:42:45 APP_FRAMEWORK::clear_bookmark_page_links: Closing bookmark_page_links
2018-08-01 16:42:45 load_database: templates loaded
2018-08-01 16:42:45 startup: text engine loaded
2018-08-01 16:42:46 load_database: default text file loaded