The NCAA is rigged...

SimSportsWorld · 03-16-2003, 07:09 PM

I'm a Boston College fan venting here, so bare with me. BC was voted "out" because of their lack of wins vs. the top 25, and lower RPI (around 50). BC won the Big East East division, by reeling off 9 out of 11 to end the season.

First off- Gonzaga
Why must the NCAA base everything on the past? Gonzaga USED to be a great team, with Dickau, and they are still a good team. However, they couldn't even win their own mid major conference, and they didn't even beat 1 top 25 team. The closest they came, was NC State by 9. BC beat NC State by 12, and also beat UConn.

Indiana
Go 8-8 in conference, losing to teams such as Temple, Northwestern (3-13 in the big 10) and Penn State (2-14 in the big 10). Lost 8 games after January 20th.

Auburn
Went 8-8 in the SEC, 7th best conference record combining both divisions. Went 1-6 against top 25 teams, also lost to Western Michigan by 19

Southern Illinois
Beat Creighton one out of 3 times, next hardest opponent that they beat was Colorado State (finished reg. season 6th in the MWC)

It seems like the NCAA will use tradition more then talent, and will try and go with the "fan favorites" instead. Also, what's the point of having conferences when 6 of the Big Ten teams get in, 6 from the SEC get in, Big 12 got 6.

The fact that a team wins the Big East, and then another (Seton Hall) gets 10 conference wins, and they don't even get in is disgusting. If you are going to use the conference records to determine bubble teams, then you should consider conference records for the teams that got in (Auburn 8-8, LSU 8-8, Indiana 8-8).

Once again, you can probably ignore this, as I am just a BC fan venting out frustration

P.S.- Dick Vitale and Digger Phelps have already mentioned BC 10 times in the first 7 minutes of bracketology. At least they know whats right

sharpk · 03-16-2003, 08:12 PM

who did Auburn beat in the top 25 RPI? I thought they were 0-6.
BC should have been in, not Auburn. That is my only real problem with the choices.

SimSportsWorld · 03-16-2003, 08:21 PM

They beat Alabama, who was # 10 at the time of the game.

akw4572 · 03-16-2003, 08:53 PM

heck, you didn't even mention cincinnati. That was the biggest joke to me, and they even got an 8 seed. I don't care how tough your schedule is. They should have never gotten in at all.

StrosMan · 03-16-2003, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SimSportsWorld
Auburn
Went 8-8 in the SEC, 7th best conference record combining both divisions. Went 1-6 against top 25 teams, also lost to Western Michigan by 19.

Agreed, Sim. Auburn has no place in the Dance ahead of your Eagles. Their nonconference schedule was Cupcake City. When Alabama missed out on a bid - what was it, a year or two ago? - anyway, when it was left out, a weak nonconference schedule was cited in that decision. Bama went out and did something about that for this season - hence their EARNED spot in the tourney. Auburn's entry only proves the fickleness of the tourney committee - either make nonconference schedule strength a factor or don't! BC should've been in that spot, without doubt.

Quote:

The fact that a team wins the Big East, and then another (Seton Hall) gets 10 conference wins, and they don't even get in is disgusting. If you are going to use the conference records to determine bubble teams, then you should consider conference records for the teams that got in (Auburn 8-8, LSU 8-8, Indiana 8-8).

LSU (my team, BTW) more than earned its invitation, even with a .500 regular-season SEC record. Victories over then-and-current #1 Arizona, then-#7 Mississippi State, and then-#7 (or is it 6?) Florida in the SEC tourney. And let's not forget this same LSU squad gave Kentucky all it could handle in Lexington earlier this year before succumbing to the Wildcats (as every other SEC team did, including the SEC tourney). LSU-Texas could turn out to be a barnburner if the Tigers can get past Purdue (which will be a challenge, even given that Gene Keady's teams tend to falter come tourney time.)

Quote:

P.S.- Dick Vitale and Digger Phelps have already mentioned BC 10 times in the first 7 minutes of bracketology. At least they know whats right

Amen to that!

Dwolfson20 · 03-17-2003, 02:55 AM

I agree that Auburn should have been dropped in favor of Boston College or Texas Tech. However, don't put Southern Illinois in your list; if you saw them play, you would see that they are certainly deserving of a bid. Most of you will not think twice when picking Missouri to win, but you may be in for a surprise.

Riverdawg · 03-17-2003, 04:54 PM

Dwolfson, I watched the Conf Tourney between SIU and Creighton, and Creighton looks very good!! I would think they can go at least to the sweet 16. That pick play that they run is very hard to defend!

As for SIU, yes they are going to be tough to beat. There coach is the real deal, plus when you have 53 wins in 2 years, you deserved to be in the tourney along with the fact that they reached the Sweet 16 just last year.

I should know who they are after they took care of my Dawgs!

Dwolfson20 · 03-17-2003, 05:07 PM

Glad you saw the game; that was the first time in a while that the Jays really put it all together and turned in a dominant performance. If they can play like that against Duke, they may actually have a chance. I was surprised at how often they used the pick play, as I hadn't seen it that often during the season; it obviously worked pretty well though. The bottom line is that if Korver is on, anything is possible.

Riverdawg · 03-17-2003, 05:11 PM

Funny thing was Korver wasn't on during the SIU game...Duke could be beatable...they are not as dominant as before.

darkhorse · 03-17-2003, 05:15 PM

I think their should be an NCAA rule making any team that finished with a .500 or lower conference record ineligible for an at-large bid.

twins15 · 03-17-2003, 05:29 PM

The biggest mistake by the comittee was putting Kentucky and Arizona in the same bracket. Also, they made it so BYU might have to play on a Sunday if they win.

SimSportsWorld · 03-17-2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twins15
The biggest mistake by the comittee was putting Kentucky and Arizona in the same bracket.

If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. No one should complain about where they are, as long as they got in. If you think you are the best, then you should be able to beat anyone, and not complain about your bracket

SimSportsWorld · 03-17-2003, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwolfson20
I agree that Auburn should have been dropped in favor of Boston College or Texas Tech. However, don't put Southern Illinois in your list; if you saw them play, you would see that they are certainly deserving of a bid. Most of you will not think twice when picking Missouri to win, but you may be in for a surprise.

I agree they are a good team. However, I just don't like the fact that a team that doesn't even win its own Mid-Major, without even beating a top 25 (besides another mid-major Creighton) gets in over a team that won the big east east, or a team like Seton Hall who won 10 games in a very tough conference.

Dwolfson20 · 03-17-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SimSportsWorld
I agree they are a good team. However, I just don't like the fact that a team that doesn't even win its own Mid-Major, without even beating a top 25 (besides another mid-major Creighton) gets in over a team that won the big east east, or a team like Seton Hall who won 10 games in a very tough conference.

But it did win its own mid-major conference; SIU took the regular season MVC title. That's worth a lot more in my mind than a three-game run in the tournament, even as a Creighton fan.

Also, like I said, just watch these guys play and you'll see, like the committee obviously did. The reason they couldn't beat another Top 25 team is that they couldn't get any of those teams to even play them.

twins15 · 03-17-2003, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SimSportsWorld
If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. No one should complain about where they are, as long as they got in. If you think you are the best, then you should be able to beat anyone, and not complain about your bracket

True, but the 2 teams that have been the best this year should at least have the chance to meet in the championship.

The Professor · 03-17-2003, 10:18 PM

Quote:

But it did win its own mid-major conference; SIU took the regular season MVC title. That's worth a lot more in my mind than a three-game run in the tournament, even as a Creighton fan.

Also, like I said, just watch these guys play and you'll see, like the committee obviously did. The reason they couldn't beat another Top 25 team is that they couldn't get any of those teams to even play them.

Right on!

The Salukis are a tough bunch, very well coached...clearly at the top of the MVC alongside Creighton. As for the Blue Jays, I really think they'll be a scary group, they are the cream of the MVC.

It is amazing to see the transformation of the last few seasons under Coach Weber. Carbondale has become a rough spot for visiting teams and the Arena is a hopping place...even with its gaudy colors.

And their great run last year is worth a little consideration this year. Like DWolfson said earlier, don't be surprised if those Egyptian dogs pull off an upset or two...

Eckstein 4 Prez · 03-17-2003, 11:10 PM

Agreed, twins. If the two best teams win their brackets, they will make the final a little anticlimactic.

TLBOrioles · 03-18-2003, 08:43 AM

Big East, MVC, what's the difference?

In all seriousness though I'd happily take a team that has some losses in a tough conference. People that want to base it solely on conference record, I don't understand that.

Let's make a new conference:
Kentucky
Arizona
Duke
Maryland
Florida
Texas
etc.

Now make all those teams play each other every year. One of them will surely be sub .500 in the conference--and still be better than 90% of the teams in the country! So if a team has a sub .500 conference record, and they torch all the other people they play, I've got no problem with letting them in. All that matters to me is who you beat, and how good they are.

The only team that I can seriously question being included is Auburn. And I'd replace them with Texas Tech before BC. But the fact of the matter is that if ANY of those teams that just missed it, BC, TT, whoever, had played a little better when it mattered, there wouldn't have been an argument.

The field is 64 teams! If you're debating whether your team is good enough to make the top 64 (ok, some of them are just mandatory bids, so say the top 40), your team really doesn't have any right to be competing for the title. In most sports, 64 teams do not make the playoffs. Every year there's some debate about who got snubbed anyway. The whole point of having this many teams is so that nobody relevant gets snubbed.

spleen1015 · 03-18-2003, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
Agreed, twins. If the two best teams win their brackets, they will make the final a little anticlimactic.

It's not going to matter. Either Arizona or Kentucky will lose before making it to the Final Four. My money is on Pittsbutgh beating Kentucky in the Regional Final. If that doesn't happen, then Illinois will beat Arizona in the Sweet 16.

Watch and see boys, only one #1 will be in the Final Four.

Quote:

Originally posted by TLBOrioles
In most sports, 64 teams do not make the playoffs.

Name another sport that has 320 teams in the league, spread throughout 31 divisions.

OldGiants · 03-18-2003, 10:00 AM

Georgia is caught cheating, and so the SEC gets TWO replacement teams? What kind of message is that?

Neither Alabama nor Auburn should be in the tournament, and the committe should have sent a clear message to the SEC that Georgia's shenanigans were the reason for the exclusion. Alabama's football team should have recieved the death penalty (like SMU) for its football viollations a year ago.

Clearly the NCAA is gutless (much like the UN, but I won't stretch the sports metaphors) and won't take a stand to punish the SEC and its long, sordid history of cheating and violations.

Too bad. They'll kill college basketball soon enough.

03-16-2003, 08:21 PM	#3
SimSportsWorld Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 236	They beat Alabama, who was # 10 at the time of the game. __________________ <br> <a href="http://simsportsworld.com ">THE FIGHT FOR OCTOBER</a> --- COMMISSIONER/BOSTON RED SOX <br> <a href="http://www.legendsport.com/baseball/timeline">TIMELINE BASEBALL LEAGUE</a> --- BOSTON RED SOX <br> <a href="http://nabc.bigcitybaseball.com">NABC</a> --- SEATTLE RAINERS <br> <a href="http://www.legendsport.com/baseball/thb/thb.htm">TWISTED HISTORY BASEBALL</a> --- PHILADELPHIA A'S

03-17-2003, 02:55 AM	#6
Dwolfson20 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not St. Louis Posts: 2,872	I agree that Auburn should have been dropped in favor of Boston College or Texas Tech. However, don't put Southern Illinois in your list; if you saw them play, you would see that they are certainly deserving of a bid. Most of you will not think twice when picking Missouri to win, but you may be in for a surprise. __________________

03-17-2003, 05:07 PM	#8
Dwolfson20 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not St. Louis Posts: 2,872	Glad you saw the game; that was the first time in a while that the Jays really put it all together and turned in a dominant performance. If they can play like that against Duke, they may actually have a chance. I was surprised at how often they used the pick play, as I hadn't seen it that often during the season; it obviously worked pretty well though. The bottom line is that if Korver is on, anything is possible. __________________

03-17-2003, 05:11 PM	#9
Riverdawg Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Woodstock...not NY Posts: 198	Funny thing was Korver wasn't on during the SIU game...Duke could be beatable...they are not as dominant as before. __________________ "The ball didn't do its job. I did my job. The ball didn't do its job," - Coca Crisp comments after he dropped a routine fly ball during a home opener for the Cleveland Indians on April 12, 2004.

03-17-2003, 05:15 PM	#10
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	I think their should be an NCAA rule making any team that finished with a .500 or lower conference record ineligible for an at-large bid. __________________ "The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

03-16-2003, 07:09 PM	#1
SimSportsWorld Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 236	The NCAA is rigged... I'm a Boston College fan venting here, so bare with me. BC was voted "out" because of their lack of wins vs. the top 25, and lower RPI (around 50). BC won the Big East East division, by reeling off 9 out of 11 to end the season. First off- Gonzaga Why must the NCAA base everything on the past? Gonzaga USED to be a great team, with Dickau, and they are still a good team. However, they couldn't even win their own mid major conference, and they didn't even beat 1 top 25 team. The closest they came, was NC State by 9. BC beat NC State by 12, and also beat UConn. Indiana Go 8-8 in conference, losing to teams such as Temple, Northwestern (3-13 in the big 10) and Penn State (2-14 in the big 10). Lost 8 games after January 20th. Auburn Went 8-8 in the SEC, 7th best conference record combining both divisions. Went 1-6 against top 25 teams, also lost to Western Michigan by 19 Southern Illinois Beat Creighton one out of 3 times, next hardest opponent that they beat was Colorado State (finished reg. season 6th in the MWC) It seems like the NCAA will use tradition more then talent, and will try and go with the "fan favorites" instead. Also, what's the point of having conferences when 6 of the Big Ten teams get in, 6 from the SEC get in, Big 12 got 6. The fact that a team wins the Big East, and then another (Seton Hall) gets 10 conference wins, and they don't even get in is disgusting. If you are going to use the conference records to determine bubble teams, then you should consider conference records for the teams that got in (Auburn 8-8, LSU 8-8, Indiana 8-8). Once again, you can probably ignore this, as I am just a BC fan venting out frustration P.S.- Dick Vitale and Digger Phelps have already mentioned BC 10 times in the first 7 minutes of bracketology. At least they know whats right __________________ <br> <a href="http://simsportsworld.com ">THE FIGHT FOR OCTOBER</a> --- COMMISSIONER/BOSTON RED SOX <br> <a href="http://www.legendsport.com/baseball/timeline">TIMELINE BASEBALL LEAGUE</a> --- BOSTON RED SOX <br> <a href="http://nabc.bigcitybaseball.com">NABC</a> --- SEATTLE RAINERS <br> <a href="http://www.legendsport.com/baseball/thb/thb.htm">TWISTED HISTORY BASEBALL</a> --- PHILADELPHIA A'S

03-16-2003, 08:12 PM	#2
sharpk Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	who did Auburn beat in the top 25 RPI? I thought they were 0-6. BC should have been in, not Auburn. That is my only real problem with the choices.

03-16-2003, 08:53 PM	#4
akw4572 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,601	heck, you didn't even mention cincinnati. That was the biggest joke to me, and they even got an 8 seed. I don't care how tough your schedule is. They should have never gotten in at all.

03-17-2003, 04:54 PM	#7
Riverdawg Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Woodstock...not NY Posts: 198	Dwolfson, I watched the Conf Tourney between SIU and Creighton, and Creighton looks very good!! I would think they can go at least to the sweet 16. That pick play that they run is very hard to defend! As for SIU, yes they are going to be tough to beat. There coach is the real deal, plus when you have 53 wins in 2 years, you deserved to be in the tourney along with the fact that they reached the Sweet 16 just last year. I should know who they are after they took care of my Dawgs! __________________ "The ball didn't do its job. I did my job. The ball didn't do its job," - Coca Crisp comments after he dropped a routine fly ball during a home opener for the Cleveland Indians on April 12, 2004.

03-17-2003, 05:29 PM	#11
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	The biggest mistake by the comittee was putting Kentucky and Arizona in the same bracket. Also, they made it so BYU might have to play on a Sunday if they win. __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

03-17-2003, 11:10 PM	#17
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Agreed, twins. If the two best teams win their brackets, they will make the final a little anticlimactic. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

03-18-2003, 08:43 AM	#18
TLBOrioles Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 188	Big East, MVC, what's the difference? In all seriousness though I'd happily take a team that has some losses in a tough conference. People that want to base it solely on conference record, I don't understand that. Let's make a new conference: Kentucky Arizona Duke Maryland Florida Texas etc. Now make all those teams play each other every year. One of them will surely be sub .500 in the conference--and still be better than 90% of the teams in the country! So if a team has a sub .500 conference record, and they torch all the other people they play, I've got no problem with letting them in. All that matters to me is who you beat, and how good they are. The only team that I can seriously question being included is Auburn. And I'd replace them with Texas Tech before BC. But the fact of the matter is that if ANY of those teams that just missed it, BC, TT, whoever, had played a little better when it mattered, there wouldn't have been an argument. The field is 64 teams! If you're debating whether your team is good enough to make the top 64 (ok, some of them are just mandatory bids, so say the top 40), your team really doesn't have any right to be competing for the title. In most sports, 64 teams do not make the playoffs. Every year there's some debate about who got snubbed anyway. The whole point of having this many teams is so that nobody relevant gets snubbed.

03-18-2003, 10:00 AM	#20
OldGiants Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 211	Georgia is caught cheating, and so the SEC gets TWO replacement teams? What kind of message is that? Neither Alabama nor Auburn should be in the tournament, and the committe should have sent a clear message to the SEC that Georgia's shenanigans were the reason for the exclusion. Alabama's football team should have recieved the death penalty (like SMU) for its football viollations a year ago. Clearly the NCAA is gutless (much like the UN, but I won't stretch the sports metaphors) and won't take a stand to punish the SEC and its long, sordid history of cheating and violations. Too bad. They'll kill college basketball soon enough.