Stuff vs. Movement vs. Control

[texasmame]

What I've gathered from this thread:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=287552

Higher "Stuff" = more Ks
Higher "Movement" = less homers allowed
Higher "Control" = less walks.


Is that the skinny?

[Xogo]

Originally Posted by texasmame

What I've gathered from this thread:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=287552

Higher "Stuff" = more Ks
Higher "Movement" = less homers allowed
Higher "Control" = less walks.


Is that the skinny?

Another aspect from that thread that I didnt see considered, is when you manage the games, part of the strategy is to have your pitcher "pitch around" or "Pitch to contact". Pitch around does not mean walk.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Xogo

Another aspect from that thread that I didnt see considered, is when you manage the games, part of the strategy is to have your pitcher "pitch around" or "Pitch to contact". Pitch around does not mean walk.

True - I play out all my games. Just yesterday, one of my guys surrendered a double on an 0-2 count after a "pitch around." I'm like, "That's not pitching around, you idiot!"

As far as intentional walks, I just hit guys instead. Why waste 4 pitches?

[Timofmars]

Originally Posted by texasmame

Higher "Stuff" = more Ks
Higher "Movement" = less homers allowed
Higher "Control" = less walks.


Is that the skinny?

From testing using the editor in commissioner mode, that is what I found about how it works, but each rating also reduces the number of hits allowed too. And more Ks by itself doesn't necessarily seem to mean fewer hits. It just means an out will be a K instead of a groundout or flyout, which means no chance for a runner to advance on the out. So that's not too valuable, but that's balanced out by the fact the Stuff reduces hits by the highest amount.

Everything I found was just taken from what the stats the editor says you should get "in a neutral, modern major league environment" when you play around with changing a player's ratings, and after I made my own adjustments to the value of each type of result (such as HRs > 1Bs > BBs).

So for me, the most valuable thing is control up to halfway. I use 1-100 scale, so the first 50 points of control give the most benefit. After that, the first 50/100 stuff is next most valuable, and next is 50/100 movement.

Beyond 50/100, control has about half the effect in reducing the number of walks as compared to the 1st 50 points, and it has a much more reduced effect on reducing hits as well. It's still valuable beyond 50/100, but it's just extremely valuable to get it up to 50/100 at least.

With everything at 50/100, the next most valuable thing for me is 50+ Stuff, then 50+ control, and finally 50+ movement. Though there seems to possibly be a further diminishing return on extreme levels of control, like over 75. It still helps, but less so.

So for me, stuff is most valuable, and movement is least valuable. The AI seems to favor stuff and movement in determining overall ratings, while control isn't as much of a factor for it.

Also, GB% of the pitcher is a factor that seems to reduce number of HRs, and it can be a pretty significant factor. Going from FB to GB pitcher could take away as many HRs as 25/100 points of movement.

For starting pitchers, I slightly prefer that they are more neutral in their R/L platoon advantage, or even reverse from what is expected (so a RHP that is best against against LHB, though this is really rare). This is because SPs will often face more opposite handed batters due to the other team using the proper platoon players to maximize their advantages. So if you say that on average the opposing team replaces 1 batter for an opposite hand platoon batter, then your pitcher is forced to use his weaker split ratings 11% more of the time due to being the starting pitcher.

For the same reason, it's nice to have some kind of balance of LH vs RH between SPs and RPs to maximize platoon advantages. If you have lots of RHP SPs as well as RHP RPs, you'll be playing at a disadvantage.

Also, overall ratings are a weighted average of the pitcher's ratings vs LHB and RHBs, where the RHB ratings are given more weight due to more RH batters being common in the league. But I prefer relievers that are less balanced, since that gives them more opportunity to be used for greater platoon advantage. At worst, they should on average at least be facing equal numbers of LHB and RHB, but typically they should be seeing a higher percentage of favorable matchups.


If your defense is strong, stuff may be slightly less necessary, since more of those balls in play will be outs, but your defense can't help against HRs and walks.


Edit: I forgot to mention that to see the raw ratings, you can't have the setting for adjusting ratings to a particular league turned on. If you adjust the rating to the MLB, your ratings will be a bit useless in determining how players should perform in games.

[Syd Thrift]

So, in addition to the fact that groundball rate has a huge influence on HR% (I think Movement basically corresponds to HR/FB so obviously if a guy has fewer flyballs he'll surrender fewer HRs), it should be added that the types of pitches a guy throws and their ratings have an effect on the platoon splits. I know that curveballs and sliders increase splits and a couple of pitches reverse them - the screwball for sure and I *think* the circle change as well (I know it does iRL, just not sure if the effect exists in-game).

Also of course there's the new rating of arm slot. Players who throw sidearm will have more pronounced platoon splits than players who throw 3/4, and the same holds for guys who throw full upright (if I were designing the game I'd *also* make it so that guys who throw over the top would also have no platoon split added on the basis of their curveball because at that point it's the classic "12 to 6" that "drops off the table" for everyone rather than curving down and away from like-handed batters, but I don't believe the game does that at this point).

[Church OOTP]

Great thread!