Year Over Year Pitcher Development

n3gtjd · 01-29-2018, 01:22 PM

First of all, I just started playing OOTP 18 and it is by far the best game I have ever played. I am trying to learn how the skills process works with existing players. For example, if a young pitcher's top yearly innings total was 100 and then he threw 200 the next, will that hamper his long term development like it has been shown to in real life? In other words, does it make sense to put guys on an innings limit at the end of the season? Also, is there any threads on how the AI treats year over year skills development? It would be cool if you could put specific players on a program to develop certain skills in the off-season.

Thanks!

NoOne · 02-03-2018, 04:07 PM

"they" have said there is wear-n-tear.

overuse is bad, but underuse in minors is not optimal for development.

if you don't pitch a ton while pitchers are "tired" in game, you should be fine. the minors limit sp pitch counts already i think? if not, applying some to your better SP isn't a bad idea.

i'd wager stamina related settings effect what you or i might see, because it's probably relative to # of pitches thrown (stays in line with how stamina works per game played and fatigue recovery - not 'IP'). from a yearly standpoint, maybe they do use ip or BF etc. # of pitches still makes themost sense... wear n tear isn't magic, it's based on friction and physics and blah blah <snore>. cause and effect. innings doesn't define it as precisely.

even type of pitch thrown should matter. sliders and curveballs are supposedly rougher on the elbow? that sort of stuff would have to be researched beyond old wive's tales though.

RchW · 02-03-2018, 04:29 PM

My sense is some form of PAP (pitcher abuse points) a la Bill James is under the hood in OOTP.

NoOne · 02-07-2018, 12:25 PM

my 2 cents -- avoid pitching them after they get "slightly tired" in a game.

Less asthetic feedback, like that relating to pitcher stamina as a game plays out vs news articles, is typically tied to specific things in the code. it is wise to listen.

there's a reason why pitchers in the past broke down within 5-7 years. ~300ip simply isn't healthy for an arm. ~150pitches in one outing isn't healthy for an arm.

like any normal distribution, it's fatter in the middle as far as 'when' they break down... the ~average doesn't pertain to all. the lucky ones with more durable arms are the ones that went ~15-20 years with health... they are the exception and extreme minority, despite how much more well known they are... it gives a false sense of it being more common than it was.

roy halliday is a great example of ignoring facts and damaging themselves (player and coaches around him at fault). that guy tried to be like a 1980's-like SP and his carrer is over ~too soon compared to counterparts (1980's wasn't the 'worst' - ie 5-man rotation starts but not concern for pitch count). his workload was insane for too many years in a row. he broke down so fast it was scary. one year he showed up and couldn't pitch anymore.

Juggernt · 02-07-2018, 05:33 PM

I've enjoyed some success over my dynasty-building exercise starting with the 1969 Orioles in going with full 5-man rotations nearly the full year, and rarely pitching anyone on 3 day's rest. I limit their pitch counts as well, although some can occasionally go 120-130. I haven't had that many pitcher injuries and I'm just finishing up 1978. Obviously, having the luxury of great pitching to start with makes things easier--but I've focused on developing arms as well, so I hope I can take the idea into the 1980s as these starters get old (although Wilbur Wood and his knuckleball might pitch forever)

NoOne · 02-08-2018, 01:54 PM

fyi the stamina setting will change ~1980-ish. soon the same stamina/#of pitches that required ~3days to recover will take ~4days to recover.

i've not paid close enough attention in the few historical leagues i've made. when ltm/lt change, take a peak at the SP stamina dropdown setting on left side of same Stats & AI settings tab.

5-man rotation is lowest stamina setting, "4.5"-man is 1 tick up -- some pitchers will be able to 'start' on a 4-man rotation rate. not sure if both settings are used historically.

--lowest - 4 days off for any pitcher to get ~100%.
--'next' - 4 days off for most... high stamina pitchers will be able to recover -1day.
--3rd is labeled 'normal' i think - all pitchers can recover with 3 days off. (4-man rotation is doable)

anyway, this dynamic will change abruptly 'one' year.

01-29-2018, 01:22 PM	#1
n3gtjd Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 5	Year Over Year Pitcher Development First of all, I just started playing OOTP 18 and it is by far the best game I have ever played. I am trying to learn how the skills process works with existing players. For example, if a young pitcher's top yearly innings total was 100 and then he threw 200 the next, will that hamper his long term development like it has been shown to in real life? In other words, does it make sense to put guys on an innings limit at the end of the season? Also, is there any threads on how the AI treats year over year skills development? It would be cool if you could put specific players on a program to develop certain skills in the off-season. Thanks!

02-03-2018, 04:07 PM	#2
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	"they" have said there is wear-n-tear. overuse is bad, but underuse in minors is not optimal for development. if you don't pitch a ton while pitchers are "tired" in game, you should be fine. the minors limit sp pitch counts already i think? if not, applying some to your better SP isn't a bad idea. i'd wager stamina related settings effect what you or i might see, because it's probably relative to # of pitches thrown (stays in line with how stamina works per game played and fatigue recovery - not 'IP'). from a yearly standpoint, maybe they do use ip or BF etc. # of pitches still makes themost sense... wear n tear isn't magic, it's based on friction and physics and blah blah <snore>. cause and effect. innings doesn't define it as precisely. even type of pitch thrown should matter. sliders and curveballs are supposedly rougher on the elbow? that sort of stuff would have to be researched beyond old wive's tales though. Last edited by NoOne; 02-03-2018 at 04:10 PM.

02-03-2018, 04:29 PM	#3
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	My sense is some form of PAP (pitcher abuse points) a la Bill James is under the hood in OOTP. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

02-07-2018, 12:25 PM	#4
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	my 2 cents -- avoid pitching them after they get "slightly tired" in a game. Less asthetic feedback, like that relating to pitcher stamina as a game plays out vs news articles, is typically tied to specific things in the code. it is wise to listen. there's a reason why pitchers in the past broke down within 5-7 years. ~300ip simply isn't healthy for an arm. ~150pitches in one outing isn't healthy for an arm. like any normal distribution, it's fatter in the middle as far as 'when' they break down... the ~average doesn't pertain to all. the lucky ones with more durable arms are the ones that went ~15-20 years with health... they are the exception and extreme minority, despite how much more well known they are... it gives a false sense of it being more common than it was. roy halliday is a great example of ignoring facts and damaging themselves (player and coaches around him at fault). that guy tried to be like a 1980's-like SP and his carrer is over ~too soon compared to counterparts (1980's wasn't the 'worst' - ie 5-man rotation starts but not concern for pitch count). his workload was insane for too many years in a row. he broke down so fast it was scary. one year he showed up and couldn't pitch anymore. Last edited by NoOne; 02-07-2018 at 12:27 PM.

02-07-2018, 05:33 PM	#5
Juggernt Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 357	I've enjoyed some success over my dynasty-building exercise starting with the 1969 Orioles in going with full 5-man rotations nearly the full year, and rarely pitching anyone on 3 day's rest. I limit their pitch counts as well, although some can occasionally go 120-130. I haven't had that many pitcher injuries and I'm just finishing up 1978. Obviously, having the luxury of great pitching to start with makes things easier--but I've focused on developing arms as well, so I hope I can take the idea into the 1980s as these starters get old (although Wilbur Wood and his knuckleball might pitch forever)

02-08-2018, 01:54 PM	#6
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	fyi the stamina setting will change ~1980-ish. soon the same stamina/#of pitches that required ~3days to recover will take ~4days to recover. i've not paid close enough attention in the few historical leagues i've made. when ltm/lt change, take a peak at the SP stamina dropdown setting on left side of same Stats & AI settings tab. 5-man rotation is lowest stamina setting, "4.5"-man is 1 tick up -- some pitchers will be able to 'start' on a 4-man rotation rate. not sure if both settings are used historically. --lowest - 4 days off for any pitcher to get ~100%. --'next' - 4 days off for most... high stamina pitchers will be able to recover -1day. --3rd is labeled 'normal' i think - all pitchers can recover with 3 days off. (4-man rotation is doable) anyway, this dynamic will change abruptly 'one' year.