Force minor leagues to carry max amount of players?

[homerj]

I generally let the AI manage my minor league teams, and then use the "lock promotion/demotion" option on my top prospects.

I also have roster limits set on my minor leagues(25 until low A where it's 35). And although I have the players in the system to fill out a roster, I'll have a AA team or high A team with 24/25 on the active roster, sometimes as low as 23/25.

There a way to actually force the AI to fill out a roster? I've tried every setting I could think of, such as ghost players and fill rosters from top to bottom, forcing complete AI management of minors, etc.

[endgame]

Well there's a lot of things going on in that question. I have a re-read later tonight and see if I can offer a better response, we generally setting a limit alone seems to drive up minor-league to aspire to max it out. Now coupled with your shutting the lock people in position may create an obstacle to them moving players up or down to make room for new players and that's confusing them. And on the other hand it would be good to know when you see those changes if they're in season are out of season because of a team isn't playing of course it lowers it number of players. If you want to back up your league and then conduct one little test it's easy enough to see change any of those roster limits up by five and everything will adjust to try to meet the new one, often regardless of consequence.

If there's a typo sorry I was dictating into my phone.

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by homerj

There a way to actually force the AI to fill out a roster? I've tried every setting I could think of, such as ghost players and fill rosters from top to bottom, forcing complete AI management of minors, etc.

if you find it, let us know!

i've got teams in my low minors (AA ball - rosters set to 31) at times with only 17 players, and 700 free agents looking for jobs
Ghost players will fill your rosters, you just don't see them ghosites listed (at least that's the way i understand it.). Another option, which i don't like, is to fill rosters with fictional players. (not that i have anything against fictional players in my game, just that i like to create them, or have them come specifically from my international complex facilities.)
Another option is to have a FA draft, and all the teams will draft the available FA. That would add some players to all your teams.
This issue was discussed in beta testing, and it appears ghost players are some part of the design when the minors expand, at least in historical games.

Sorry could not be more help.

[homerj]

I took a major league quickstart of the Pirates, simmed to April 6th(Eastern League opening day). They are starting with 24/25 players. I'd think that my AI GM would say "hey, there's an extra roster spot, call up someone from a lower level". I don't have anyone locked to a level.

I have it set for 7 RP and 13 bench players, I'd think the purpose of the AI GM would be to fill out the rosters, and keep to the roster rules of the highest teams, and if the lowest level rookie team couldn't fill out, well, that's on me to make sure they have the players.

[homerj]

I also went in and upped the roster limit to 30. The AI filled out 29/30 spots. I dropped it back down to 25, and it kept it at 25/25.

[RchW]

It's very complex. The reason your minor league teams don't fill the roster is that they have players on the minor league DL. The reason in my opinion is that OOTP doesn't want the "elevator" to be moving certain players up and down every other day as players move on and off the DL.

The simplest way to solve this problem is to set your AAA and AA levels to 30 players and the lowest (in my case A) to unlimited or 50. That way you can be sure that sufficient players will be available for each level.

Another point. You can influence the mix of players at each minor league level in-game. Go to league options/stats and AI and make use of the roster choices highlighted by arrows.

[homerj]

Originally Posted by RchW

It's very complex. The reason your minor league teams don't fill the roster is that they have players on the minor league DL. The reason in my opinion is that OOTP doesn't want the "elevator" to be moving certain players up and down every other day as players move on and off the DL.

The simplest way to solve this problem is to set your AAA and AA levels to 30 players and the lowest (in my case A) to unlimited or 50. That way you can be sure that sufficient players will be available for each level.

Another point. You can influence the mix of players at each minor league level in-game. Go to league options/stats and AI and make use of the roster choices highlighted by arrows.

Yes, I had that set to 25(5 SP, 7 RP, and 13 Position). So probably the easiest way to set up would just be to have 30 man active rosters to simulate what would be the minor league reserve lists is what you are saying. I tried this just now, and It's bring people up who really shouldn't be there with the extra players.

Although, if the AI isn't going to replace a player on the minor league DL, what's really the point of having it?

[RchW]

Use the disable demotion/promotion feature to lock certain groups of players into levels

[NoOne]

if you set a max roster #, not just he 5sp etc portion of those settings, the ai will fill upto that point.

not quite what you want, but outside of the lowest level(s) it shouldn't be a problem to set it to 25 or whatever you wish... just make sure there are enough players per year to support it.

looks like homerj hit on this, too. like rich mentioned, there's really no such thing as "too many" players in the rookie-level leagues.... any repercussion it causes is small. if you have any service time max set for any level, you'll need to consider how many players get there per year and if that's enough relative to the window provided by the way you set up your minor leagues and service time/age restrictions.

30/team is great idea... when i control my minors that's exactly what i do... (~30-35).. don't skimp on draft rounds ... especially if only a short window of time likely for players to be there.

another tip i like, use service limits for the lower levels, but switch to an age max for AA. (aaa - nothing, of course).. by that time it's not so much about high school vs college draftee.. i pick an 'older' age where development is ~nearly hopeless. keep it simple, keep it balanced.. consider how long you are giving for the large portions of players who will mostly promote due to service time / age.

[PSUColonel]

If this is all true, (and maybe I just haven’t noticed it) this is something that really needs to be fixed. It’s hard to imagine OOTP has 18 versions under its belt, and things like this still persist.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

If this is all true, (and maybe I just haven’t noticed it) this is something that really needs to be fixed. It’s hard to imagine OOTP has 18 versions under its belt, and things like this still persist.

Not sure what you are referring to. I don't want my minor league teams moving players up and down as players go on and off the DL.

[PSUColonel]

Shouldn’t the AI be able to move players up and down (with roster limits on) in order to compensate for players who are injured and being placed on the DL?

[homerj]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Shouldn’t the AI be able to move players up and down (with roster limits on) in order to compensate for players who are injured and being placed on the DL?

This is one of those "it should" but I get what RichW is saying. For instance, let's assume we're talking about a AAA club. (and if I'm wrong about any of this, someone correct me).

If someone gets injured off the active 25-man, a call-up is only one of the things that could happen. If it was a pitcher, it may be more likely that they are replaced by a player on their 38-man reserve list. The 38-man reserve list consisting of the active 25 + DL + players just traveling with the team. So a catcher may warrant a AA call-up, if one of the two on the active roster gets injured, and there isn't another catcher on the reserve list.

If you do a strict 25-man roster limit in OOTP, there isn't that reserve list to pull from, so ANY injury requires a call-up to fill the 25-man active roster. This creates an elevator of having to keep calling up and demoting players that go on the 7-day DL for any reason. Doesn't really happen in reality. Currently OOTP doesn't do the call-up for any reason. I'm sure there's some length of injury time where it would do that, but it's not automatic. This could lead to a short active roster of 24 if they are counting someone with a week to go on an injury and on the DL as the 25th man.

I've come to the conclusion that although not technically correct, just having no roster limit is probably the more realistic of the options. The players above 25 would just be players on the reserve list. They are all DL leagues anyways in the minors, so really getting more than 25 players in a game is pretty rare.

[Situational_Lefty]

Originally Posted by homerj

This is one of those "it should" but I get what RichW is saying. For instance, let's assume we're talking about a AAA club. (and if I'm wrong about any of this, someone correct me).

If someone gets injured off the active 25-man, a call-up is only one of the things that could happen. If it was a pitcher, it may be more likely that they are replaced by a player on their 38-man reserve list. The 38-man reserve list consisting of the active 25 + DL + players just traveling with the team. So a catcher may warrant a AA call-up, if one of the two on the active roster gets injured, and there isn't another catcher on the reserve list.

If you do a strict 25-man roster limit in OOTP, there isn't that reserve list to pull from, so ANY injury requires a call-up to fill the 25-man active roster. This creates an elevator of having to keep calling up and demoting players that go on the 7-day DL for any reason. Doesn't really happen in reality. Currently OOTP doesn't do the call-up for any reason. I'm sure there's some length of injury time where it would do that, but it's not automatic. This could lead to a short active roster of 24 if they are counting someone with a week to go on an injury and on the DL as the 25th man.

I've come to the conclusion that although not technically correct, just having no roster limit is probably the more realistic of the options. The players above 25 would just be players on the reserve list. They are all DL leagues anyways in the minors, so really getting more than 25 players in a game is pretty rare.

I have been going back and forth the last couple of days about adding roster limits to my league setup, and I am kind of on the fence. Your post has me learning towards not doing roster limits and just sticking with the adjusted service time limits I have been messing with.

My only concern is that without any limit, I will get into a situation were there are 50 or more players on some AI ML teams. Because I have noticed, that the AI really does not like to release players, no matter how bad they are in the minors.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Situational_Lefty

I have been going back and forth the last couple of days about adding roster limits to my league setup, and I am kind of on the fence. Your post has me learning towards not doing roster limits and just sticking with the adjusted service time limits I have been messing with.

My only concern is that without any limit, I will get into a situation were there are 50 or more players on some AI ML teams. Because I have noticed, that the AI really does not like to release players, no matter how bad they are in the minors.

You'll be fine with a limit of 35 at the lower levels. I have service time limits, age limits and roster size limits all in effect and don't have any major problems. The only thing I have had to accept is that the AI is going to sign some players and then immediately release them because the rules I have in place won't allow that player on the team the AI wants him. So I sometimes see players (non-prospects) getting signed and released repeatedly. But I can live with that over the 25-plus year old guys in Rookie ball and prospects not progressing realistically up the minor league ladder.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by homerj

This is one of those "it should" but I get what RichW is saying. For instance, let's assume we're talking about a AAA club. (and if I'm wrong about any of this, someone correct me).

If someone gets injured off the active 25-man, a call-up is only one of the things that could happen. If it was a pitcher, it may be more likely that they are replaced by a player on their 38-man reserve list. The 38-man reserve list consisting of the active 25 + DL + players just traveling with the team. So a catcher may warrant a AA call-up, if one of the two on the active roster gets injured, and there isn't another catcher on the reserve list.

If you do a strict 25-man roster limit in OOTP, there isn't that reserve list to pull from, so ANY injury requires a call-up to fill the 25-man active roster. This creates an elevator of having to keep calling up and demoting players that go on the 7-day DL for any reason. Doesn't really happen in reality. Currently OOTP doesn't do the call-up for any reason. I'm sure there's some length of injury time where it would do that, but it's not automatic. This could lead to a short active roster of 24 if they are counting someone with a week to go on an injury and on the DL as the 25th man.

I've come to the conclusion that although not technically correct, just having no roster limit is probably the more realistic of the options. The players above 25 would just be players on the reserve list. They are all DL leagues anyways in the minors, so really getting more than 25 players in a game is pretty rare.

I get your point, but on the flip side, all of the players are eligible to play in games, which reserve players aren’t in reality. I would think by adding reserve rosters for minor league teams, it would take a lot of the burden off of the AI, and would therefore be a good feature to implement.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I get your point, but on the flip side, all of the players are eligible to play in games, which reserve players aren’t in reality. I would think by adding reserve rosters for minor league teams, it would take a lot of the burden off of the AI, and would therefore be a good feature to implement.

I'm guessing the issue with implementing reserve rosters is that the AI would hoard players on those reserve rosters, which is not realistic. Real life teams do not have big reserve lists, even though they're allowed to. In fact, except at the very low levels (rookie and maybe some short-A teams), most minor league teams don't have any players on their reserve lists. When they do, it's usually in anticipation of a coming move, so that player is only on the reserve list for a day or two.

In reality, teams actually play with a short roster on a fairly regular basis (at least a handful of games per season), just not as often as it's happening in OOTP. The easiest way for OOTP to overcome this is for the user to just set the roster size to be a player or two above the real-life limit.

[Situational_Lefty]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

You'll be fine with a limit of 35 at the lower levels. I have service time limits, age limits and roster size limits all in effect and don't have any major problems. The only thing I have had to accept is that the AI is going to sign some players and then immediately release them because the rules I have in place won't allow that player on the team the AI wants him. So I sometimes see players (non-prospects) getting signed and released repeatedly. But I can live with that over the 25-plus year old guys in Rookie ball and prospects not progressing realistically up the minor league ladder.

You would think the AI would know the rules before the player was signed right? But I know what you mean. I saw that in one of the test leagues I was running while testing different roster limits. I even saw one poor guy get signed and released about 15 times in a row. I bet he has trust issues now.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I'm guessing the issue with implementing reserve rosters is that the AI would hoard players on those reserve rosters, which is not realistic. Real life teams do not have big reserve lists, even though they're allowed to. In fact, except at the very low levels (rookie and maybe some short-A teams), most minor league teams don't have any players on their reserve lists. When they do, it's usually in anticipation of a coming move, so that player is only on the reserve list for a day or two.

In reality, teams actually play with a short roster on a fairly regular basis (at least a handful of games per season), just not as often as it's happening in OOTP. The easiest way for OOTP to overcome this is for the user to just set the roster size to be a player or two above the real-life limit.

The AI wouldn’t be able to hoard if you could implement a maximum number of hours layers allowed on the reserve roster

[Situational_Lefty]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

You'll be fine with a limit of 35 at the lower levels. I have service time limits, age limits and roster size limits all in effect and don't have any major problems. The only thing I have had to accept is that the AI is going to sign some players and then immediately release them because the rules I have in place won't allow that player on the team the AI wants him. So I sometimes see players (non-prospects) getting signed and released repeatedly. But I can live with that over the 25-plus year old guys in Rookie ball and prospects not progressing realistically up the minor league ladder.

I'm curious, what do you have your limits set at in your league?