Trade value question

Vonschlick · 02-27-2017, 01:35 PM

I have a question on trade value of players. I'm a White Sox fan and was playing OOTP 17 and doing a rebuild for the White Sox. I thought I was getting okay value from trading players, but I got no where near the value the Chris sale and Adam Eaton returned in real life.

I'm going to restart in OOTP 18, but was wondering if there is a way to get better value or if anything has changed in OOTP 18.

Thanks!

saturn2187 · 02-27-2017, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vonschlick

I have a question on trade value of players. I'm a White Sox fan and was playing OOTP 17 and doing a rebuild for the White Sox. I thought I was getting okay value from trading players, but I got no where near the value the Chris sale and Adam Eaton returned in real life.

I'm going to restart in OOTP 18, but was wondering if there is a way to get better value or if anything has changed in OOTP 18.

Thanks!

Not sure what you're asking, really. We can't give you an answer about what's changed in OOTP 18 because the game hasn't been released yet.

Vonschlick · 02-27-2017, 03:12 PM

Mainly looking for any settings or something to make the trades a little easier without taking advantage of the AI. There were several trades last year I was unable to duplicate without using 'Force Trade' option.

Jeffy25 · 02-27-2017, 03:23 PM

I don't know how the game does trade values.

And this wouldn't work for this year, but future years maybe.

I always though trade values should be based on expected surplus values of the players and roster needs.

It appears that every roster/team is aware of needs. A team would be aware that they are weak at 3B and relievers. A team with surplus 3B should know that is a good team to trade one of those 3B to, and would trade that type of player based on each teams needs/place in rebuild/competitive window.

Here is an example:

The White Sox are rebuilding.
The Red Sox are competitive now.
Teams that are rebuilding look to trade every player that isn't under control longer than 12 months out. So Todd Frazier is a player they look to trade away.

The Red Sox are weak at third base because Pablo Sandoval isn't expected to produce.

The game would figure out that Todd Frazier is owed $12M, and he would be projected to be worth $20M in 2017 based on projected WAR and the cost of WAR/$. So that would receive them a prospect in the top 50-75 range that the Red Sox would have, and would find a suitable trade in that range.

But that might be hard to create.

saturn2187 · 02-27-2017, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vonschlick

Mainly looking for any settings or something to make the trades a little easier without taking advantage of the AI. There were several trades last year I was unable to duplicate without using 'Force Trade' option.

Yeah. If you're trying to replicate the real life trades, you'll have to use "force trade" a lot of times. No way around that - the game will value guys differently than real world GMs.

Vonschlick · 02-27-2017, 04:22 PM

I'm not looking for something that works perfectly, but I couldn't even get the Red Sox to accept a straight trade of Chris Sale for Moncada and trading Eaton to the Nationals was even worse.

T-Bone · 02-27-2017, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vonschlick

I'm not looking for something that works perfectly, but I couldn't even get the Red Sox to accept a straight trade of Chris Sale for Moncada and trading Eaton to the Nationals was even worse.

Well - there are many who feel the Sox overpaid for Sale and that the Nats significantly overpaid for Eaton.

Calvert98 · 02-27-2017, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Well - there are many who feel the Sox overpaid for Sale and that the Nats significantly overpaid for Eaton.

That's what I have been hearing as well T-Bone. Not to get too far off topic, but aside from the cash, do you know what the Sox ended-up doing for Sale?

T-Bone · 02-27-2017, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvert98

That's what I have been hearing as well T-Bone. Not to get too far off topic, but aside from the cash, do you know what the Sox ended-up doing for Sale?

Not really - I know when you listen to the MLB Network on XM, they say the 4 prospects in the trade are all highly rated (maybe 3 of the 4) and it was a big price for Sale, even though think he has 2 years left on a team friendly contract.

Really the Eaton trade was worse.

Number4 · 02-27-2017, 07:24 PM

It's case of differing interest. The Red Sox want a quality established player, they want him now and they want him for cheap (in terms of salary). That doesn't come cheap in terms of prospects.

The White Sox want to get rid of Sale, mostly for rebuilding reasons, maybe added with a small bit of "he cut our jerseys!". But a quality starting pitcher will always get a lot of trade value, therefore a good offer has to be made. But still, the longer you hold on to Sale, the less value will he have as he'll be closer to free agency, so they'd prefer to trade now.

In an ideal world, the trade would profit both sides. The Red Sox will use the quality only a great pitcher as Sale can provide to go very far, maybe all the way, in the playoffs, raking in money from additional games and additional fans.

The White Sox would waste Sale's best years with a mediocre team, so they hope the prospects will get them better value when they are ready to compete with a better team.

As the trade of "value now" versus "value later" is in mutual interest, I assume the trade is roughly balanced, in that the front offices more or less think the Red Sox gave up as much future expected value in the prospects as they got in Sale now.

But prospects are a crapshoot, and you might get them being brilliant, or fizzle out. You have to judge the trade now, not whether the Red Sox have traded the future MVP for a Tommy John surgery pitcher, or traded a bunch of career minor leaguers for a Cy Young winner.

And I think now, it is fair.

thorpegiovanni · 02-27-2017, 07:56 PM

The White Sox won both trades, especially the Eaton one.

Marsupilami · 02-27-2017, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorpegiovanni

The White Sox won both trades, especially the Eaton one.

i wouldnt bet my next paycheck on that.

Giolito didnt look nearly as good as the hype suggested + his velocity was down a couple ticks. he may become a good ML pitcher, but i dont think an ace

Lopez might end up being a bullpenpiece if he cant figure out control

havent seen dunning though

wallewalls · 02-27-2017, 11:39 PM

its always going to be hard to replicate trades in any video game

Palaaemon · 02-28-2017, 01:32 AM

Keep in mind OOTP does not recognize players names. The game does not have any idea who Chris Sale is, only how he is valued, which is variable from situation to situation. How players are valued are affected by how you have set your game up. There are many other factors that can affect their ratings and values to other teams. Their scouts being a big factor. The needs of that team. Not to mention your own evaluation based upon your scouts info they give to you, what you spend on Scouting, and how much you rely on the OSA for comparisons. There are other variables and constants I am sure that can affect things along the way. Also keep in mind the use of stars as evaluators can trip you up.

Hope this helps!

geisterhome · 05-19-2017, 06:26 PM

I don't want to open another thread for my question so I'm asking here. Also maybe I have found a way to rip off the cpu(???).

So here is my trade, I'm in year 2018 with the Twins, trading difficulty very hard:

Yankees recieve:
Phil Hughes 1,5* (2 years, 13.2m)
Jason Castro 1* (2 years, 8m)

Twins:
Starlin Castro 1* ( 2 years, 10m, 11m- Yankees retain 55% of it)
Brett Gardener 1* (1 year, 11m)

Year 1 Twins money would improve by roughly 4m
Year 2 by 16m for the Twins

Statisticly Hughes is having a good year projecting to have an 4,4 WAR despite an ERA of 5.00
Same goes for Starlin Castro, he is hitting .361, projected WAR 4,3
Castro as backup Catcher is projected to have an 1,2 WAR
Gardner somewhere around -1,2 War

Looking at the Yankees roster I guess Hughes could take the number 4 or 5 spot in the rotation (WAR wise he would be the best the have right now), Castro could get the backup catcher spot without improving them much.

The big deal here is obviously is the salary the Twins would be shedding, especially in year 2. Do you guys think this trade is fair or did I find somewhat like a AI loophole cos of the new retain salary option?

02-27-2017, 01:35 PM	#1
Vonschlick Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 34	Trade value question I have a question on trade value of players. I'm a White Sox fan and was playing OOTP 17 and doing a rebuild for the White Sox. I thought I was getting okay value from trading players, but I got no where near the value the Chris sale and Adam Eaton returned in real life. I'm going to restart in OOTP 18, but was wondering if there is a way to get better value or if anything has changed in OOTP 18. Thanks!

02-27-2017, 07:24 PM	#10
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	It's case of differing interest. The Red Sox want a quality established player, they want him now and they want him for cheap (in terms of salary). That doesn't come cheap in terms of prospects. The White Sox want to get rid of Sale, mostly for rebuilding reasons, maybe added with a small bit of "he cut our jerseys!". But a quality starting pitcher will always get a lot of trade value, therefore a good offer has to be made. But still, the longer you hold on to Sale, the less value will he have as he'll be closer to free agency, so they'd prefer to trade now. In an ideal world, the trade would profit both sides. The Red Sox will use the quality only a great pitcher as Sale can provide to go very far, maybe all the way, in the playoffs, raking in money from additional games and additional fans. The White Sox would waste Sale's best years with a mediocre team, so they hope the prospects will get them better value when they are ready to compete with a better team. As the trade of "value now" versus "value later" is in mutual interest, I assume the trade is roughly balanced, in that the front offices more or less think the Red Sox gave up as much future expected value in the prospects as they got in Sale now. But prospects are a crapshoot, and you might get them being brilliant, or fizzle out. You have to judge the trade now, not whether the Red Sox have traded the future MVP for a Tommy John surgery pitcher, or traded a bunch of career minor leaguers for a Cy Young winner. And I think now, it is fair. __________________ "Odor is now 2 for 5 today" (Commentator, after Rougned Odor, up to then 1 for 4, punched Jose Bautista square in the face.)

02-27-2017, 07:56 PM	#11
thorpegiovanni All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 550	The White Sox won both trades, especially the Eaton one. __________________

02-28-2017, 01:32 AM	#14
Palaaemon Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 263	Keep in mind OOTP does not recognize players names. The game does not have any idea who Chris Sale is, only how he is valued, which is variable from situation to situation. How players are valued are affected by how you have set your game up. There are many other factors that can affect their ratings and values to other teams. Their scouts being a big factor. The needs of that team. Not to mention your own evaluation based upon your scouts info they give to you, what you spend on Scouting, and how much you rely on the OSA for comparisons. There are other variables and constants I am sure that can affect things along the way. Also keep in mind the use of stars as evaluators can trip you up. Hope this helps! __________________ I don't have to run faster than the bear, just faster than you. Last edited by Palaaemon; 02-28-2017 at 01:33 AM.

02-27-2017, 03:12 PM	#3
Vonschlick Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 34	Mainly looking for any settings or something to make the trades a little easier without taking advantage of the AI. There were several trades last year I was unable to duplicate without using 'Force Trade' option.

02-27-2017, 03:23 PM	#4
Jeffy25 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,505	I don't know how the game does trade values. And this wouldn't work for this year, but future years maybe. I always though trade values should be based on expected surplus values of the players and roster needs. It appears that every roster/team is aware of needs. A team would be aware that they are weak at 3B and relievers. A team with surplus 3B should know that is a good team to trade one of those 3B to, and would trade that type of player based on each teams needs/place in rebuild/competitive window. Here is an example: The White Sox are rebuilding. The Red Sox are competitive now. Teams that are rebuilding look to trade every player that isn't under control longer than 12 months out. So Todd Frazier is a player they look to trade away. The Red Sox are weak at third base because Pablo Sandoval isn't expected to produce. The game would figure out that Todd Frazier is owed $12M, and he would be projected to be worth $20M in 2017 based on projected WAR and the cost of WAR/$. So that would receive them a prospect in the top 50-75 range that the Red Sox would have, and would find a suitable trade in that range. But that might be hard to create.

02-27-2017, 04:22 PM	#6
Vonschlick Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 34	I'm not looking for something that works perfectly, but I couldn't even get the Red Sox to accept a straight trade of Chris Sale for Moncada and trading Eaton to the Nationals was even worse.

02-27-2017, 11:39 PM	#13
wallewalls All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 774 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	its always going to be hard to replicate trades in any video game

05-19-2017, 06:26 PM	#15
geisterhome Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 286	I don't want to open another thread for my question so I'm asking here. Also maybe I have found a way to rip off the cpu(???). So here is my trade, I'm in year 2018 with the Twins, trading difficulty very hard: Yankees recieve: Phil Hughes 1,5* (2 years, 13.2m) Jason Castro 1* (2 years, 8m) Twins: Starlin Castro 1* ( 2 years, 10m, 11m- Yankees retain 55% of it) Brett Gardener 1* (1 year, 11m) Year 1 Twins money would improve by roughly 4m Year 2 by *16m* for the Twins Statisticly Hughes is having a good year projecting to have an 4,4 WAR despite an ERA of 5.00 Same goes for Starlin Castro, he is hitting .361, projected WAR 4,3 Castro as backup Catcher is projected to have an 1,2 WAR Gardner somewhere around -1,2 War Looking at the Yankees roster I guess Hughes could take the number 4 or 5 spot in the rotation (WAR wise he would be the best the have right now), Castro could get the backup catcher spot without improving them much. The big deal here is obviously is the salary the Twins would be shedding, especially in year 2. Do you guys think this trade is fair or did I find somewhat like a AI loophole cos of the new retain salary option?