Feeder league issue in regards to PCMs and the resulting talent pool

[polydamas]

So, I have messed around with feeder leagues a bit and I have noticed that the draft classes are extremely weak and that after 10 years, almost all of the best players are international free agents/prospects/discoveries. So, I looked into the feeder leagues with scouting turned off to see their true ratings.


There are no good prospects whatsoever. With the PCM's all set at .6 for college and .5 for high school, all the players generated are garbage. With them set to 1, the talent pool is completely stacked as there are more feeder league players than my major league has. Additionally, all of the players are major league ready.

My expectation with the PCMs was that it would produce players that are 60% developed for college and 50% for high school. Instead it is giving me players that are 60% as talented as major leaguers with no real outliers (no good prospects at all). Essentially, feeder leagues are unusable unless I am missing something.


I would really love to incorporated them into my game, so please let me know if anyone sees any way to fix this.

[polydamas]

If I am right in that this is broken, then there needs to be a bit more complexity to the PCMs. Perhaps a development modifier + the PCMs. That way I could set it closer to 1 and still not have guys that are absolutely ready to be MLB stars.

[andyhdz]

Are these the feeders directly tied to your major league or independent? If directly a part of your major league the default pcms should be fine since feeders have been used for several versions. I've seen weak classes and then classes that are stacked.

[polydamas]

Originally Posted by andyhdz

Are these the feeders directly tied to your major league or independent? If directly a part of your major league the default pcms should be fine since feeders have been used for several versions. I've seen weak classes and then classes that are stacked.

They are independent leagues that feed into it.

The set up is as follows

ML
AAA
AA
A
SA
R

NCAA (feeds MLB)

jNCAA (feeds MLB) (2 year)

Alpha HS (feeds MLB)

Beta HS (feeds jNCAA)

Omega HS (feeds NCAA)

[sprague]

Originally Posted by polydamas

So, I have messed around with feeder leagues a bit and I have noticed that the draft classes are extremely weak and that after 10 years, almost all of the best players are international free agents/prospects/discoveries. So, I looked into the feeder leagues with scouting turned off to see their true ratings.


There are no good prospects whatsoever. With the PCM's all set at .6 for college and .5 for high school, all the players generated are garbage. With them set to 1, the talent pool is completely stacked as there are more feeder league players than my major league has. Additionally, all of the players are major league ready.

My expectation with the PCMs was that it would produce players that are 60% developed for college and 50% for high school. Instead it is giving me players that are 60% as talented as major leaguers with no real outliers (no good prospects at all). Essentially, feeder leagues are unusable unless I am missing something.


I would really love to incorporated them into my game, so please let me know if anyone sees any way to fix this.

There are 2 sets of modifiers the do different things.
In MLB is player creation modifiers, these generate your talent level in all league linked to it, including feeders.
At each level are sabermetric modifiers that tell how developed new players should be at that level.

What you want are MLB modifiers to 1.000 or something around it, and the feeders to have sabermetric modifiers to .500 or something like that. Then it should work

[HonusWagner]

This is an interesting issue since I have been considering creating feeder HS and C level feeders as independent league templates. But the OP's experience is exactly not what I want.

Since you have HS feeding into C, you should have ~8 years of developmental progress per player. Are the players just not evolving?

[NoOne]

you want the pcm's at 1.000 if you want normal prospects. doesn't matter which league, if it's a feeder or affiliated, you want 1.000's.

this doesn't affect mil, because you don't create players in the mil, typically.

you either create players for draft or feeders or just X are created each year. ( i guess the latter could be mil created, as far as the pcm are concerned and which ones apply)


those all have to be 1.000 origins, or you get substandard prospects. nothing needs to be fixed. you just have the wrong perception of how they work.

if you make an independent league from the draft or feeders (genral sense), then you can use <1.000 PCMs, if you want that league to be inferior to your mlb league and it's associated mil/feeders etc etc are exclusive from that independent league.

There's some bad info above about the sabermetric pcm though, this quote from manual should clear it up:

"When used for minor leagues, Sabermetric PCMs affect only the quality of players generated when the league is first created. They do not affect the quality of new players created in subsequent years - that aspect is controlled solely by the PCM's used by the relevant major league."

reference material guys... read the manual for info, then ask questions. search the forums... this info is repeated all the time or readily available take pride in avoiding a requirement for someone to hold your hand. although with forums posts you have constant human error everywhere, too. (mine included) there are long-standing beliefs in the forums that are flat-out irrational and illogical

[polydamas]

Originally Posted by NoOne

you want the pcm's at 1.000 if you want normal prospects. doesn't matter which league, if it's a feeder or affiliated, you want 1.000's.

this doesn't affect mil, because you don't create players in the mil, typically.

you either create players for draft or feeders or just X are created each year. ( i guess the latter could be mil created, as far as the pcm are concerned and which ones apply)


those all have to be 1.000 origins, or you get substandard prospects. nothing needs to be fixed. you just have the wrong perception of how they work.

if you make an independent league from the draft or feeders (genral sense), then you can use <1.000 PCMs, if you want that league to be inferior to your mlb league and it's associated mil/feeders etc etc are exclusive from that independent league.

There's some bad info above about the sabermetric pcm though, this quote from manual should clear it up:

"When used for minor leagues, Sabermetric PCMs affect only the quality of players generated when the league is first created. They do not affect the quality of new players created in subsequent years - that aspect is controlled solely by the PCM's used by the relevant major league."

reference material guys... read the manual for info, then ask questions. search the forums... this info is repeated all the time or readily available take pride in avoiding a requirement for someone to hold your hand. although with forums posts you have constant human error everywhere, too. (mine included) there are long-standing beliefs in the forums that are flat-out irrational and illogical

I'm going to make a caveat before I get to my response. I have ADHD inattentive, so reading and comprehending all that you have said is like 50/50. My response might not make sense.


So, I set my feeder league PCMs to 1 and filled the teams with fictional players. The talent pool does look acceptable, but now I have 15 year olds that are 100% developed and ready to dominate my major league.

As for the not looking for myself, I searched through google, reddit and on this forum for an answer before making this post. I did not find anything that answered it, so here we are. It did not occur to me to check the manual. I have used it before, but I just didn't think about it. I'll check it now to see if I can find an answer and post my findings if there are any for posterity (future searchers for the answer to this question).

[polydamas]

Below is what the manual says. As I said, I have ADHD innattentive, so I am having trouble with this. I don't really see anything that talks about how to make poor quality players with normal potential when starting out a game. To me it seems like I need 1 for all PCMs, but when I use the "fill teams with fictional players" command, they come out major league ready.

I think, and I might be wrong here, but I think I need the PCMs at 1 and then I need to not use the "fill teams with fictional players" command, but instead use the commish action on the "find a player -> (relevant league) player list to manual bring in players of random quality, but low development. I'll see if that works.

Thank you NoOne for your help.

EDIT: That seemed to work.

Traditional OOTP PCMs affect the strength of major leagues relative to each other, in terms of the current and potential ratings of their players. For instance, if you have two major leagues in your universe, and one has the default Traditional OOTP PCM value of 1.000 for Home Run Power, while the other has a Traditional OOTP PCM value of 0.500 for Home Run Power, then Home Run Power potential and ratings in the second league will be roughly half that of the first. Traditional OOTP PCMs affect both the quality of players generated when the league is first created and the quality of new players created for that league's draft or college and high school feeder leagues.

Traditional OOTP PCMs cascade down through a league system, so that a parent league and all affiliated leagues rolling up to it share the same player creation modifiers.
Sabermetric Player Creation Modifiers
Sabermetric PCMs can be used for either major leagues or minor leagues, but they are recommended for minor league use only because of their more unpredictable results compared to Traditional OOTP PCMs. When used for minor leagues, Sabermetric PCMs affect only the quality of players generated when the league is first created. They do not affect the quality of new players created in subsequent years - that aspect is controlled solely by the PCM's used by the relevant major league. During initial league creation, the effects of minor league PCM's are cumulative with major league PCM's, so that players created for a AAA league affiliated to a major league with PCM's of 0.5 across the board will be about half as good as players created for a AAA league affiliated to a major league with PCM's of 1.0 across the board, assuming that both AAA leagues have the same minor league PCM's.

[sprague]

Again
Your 1.000 are for your Mlb. That Tells the level of players you want in the whole world.

Feeders sabermetric are set to .500 to tell that you want them to be at half their potential, which will be what you set your MLB to.

[NoOne]

and a note about filling or seed players -- you will end up with more talent over time in comparison. e.g. if you go arbitrarily sort by overall...there will be more higher-quality players in ~10-20 years, then fluctuate a normal amount from then on if setttings and such remain constant.

(i don't use feeders, may be different for them? more akin to just making players than filling i would expect, since it's the lowest possible level?)

[polydamas]

Originally Posted by sprague

Again
Your 1.000 are for your Mlb. That Tells the level of players you want in the whole world.

Feeders sabermetric are set to .500 to tell that you want them to be at half their potential, which will be what you set your MLB to.

I had them at .6 for the college feeders and they produced straight garbage. There were like 3 good players in 10 years. I think NoOne is right in that they should be at 1.

[HonusWagner]

Yes, because your feeder league is always potentially variable in relation to the parent league.

This way, the feeder league settings don't need to be modified every time the parent league settings are modified.

For example, if you have your parent league stats set to evolve each season, then the individual ratios may change. Having the feeder leagues set to 1.000 means you do not need to manually change the feeder league settings to produce players that reflect the change at the parent level.

Same thing applies if you change the parent league stat ratios manually.

The thing that I don't get is why OOTP calls the feeder league settings "Sabermetric".

[NoOne]

glad it's all working.

when i get in trouble, i work backward with things i've changed recently, lol. it's difficult to remember somethign you did differently or new at creation when the ramifications aren't seen until the offseason or even ensuing years.

guess on 'sabermetric:' the standard pcm are directly connected to a particular rating. I'd guess some sabermetric stats are used as a translation/medium or integrated or swapped out in the process, somehow.

[andyhdz]

Well again the confusion lies with the fact that the manual clearly states that sabermetric pcm's are only used when the league is first created. It's the traditional PCM's that affect player talent during drafts. For feeders to a major league those should be all 1.