Player Lost Positional Rating!

[TheBear650]

NEED HELP! Please read

Traded for a pitcher with good offensive ability, and LF rating of 50 with 60 range 60 error 40 arm... (80 Scale) by my calculations that would put him anywhere from 120-140 experience at LF. However the next sim when the player shows in my organization, he no longer has a LF rating. I know positional ratings can disappear when a players defensive abilities do not meet the criteria for that position (ex: 30 range at SS would show no rating even with 200 experience). However his defensive ratings stayed the exact same, and well good enough for a rating in LF. My only conclusion is that the player lost all of his experience (over one sim!) because of not playing in the field for a few years, yet clearly in the manual it says players can not lose experience... only ability (range, error, arm). Im thinking this is a bug, but if anyone can clarify this I would be ecstatic.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by TheBear650

NEED HELP! Please read

Traded for a pitcher with good offensive ability, and LF rating of 50 with 60 range 60 error 40 arm... (80 Scale) by my calculations that would put him anywhere from 120-140 experience at LF. However the next sim when the player shows in my organization, he no longer has a LF rating. I know positional ratings can disappear when a players defensive abilities do not meet the criteria for that position (ex: 30 range at SS would show no rating even with 200 experience). However his defensive ratings stayed the exact same, and well good enough for a rating in LF. My only conclusion is that the player lost all of his experience (over one sim!) because of not playing in the field for a few years, yet clearly in the manual it says players can not lose experience... only ability (range, error, arm). Im thinking this is a bug, but if anyone can clarify this I would be ecstatic.

Not aware of where it says players cannot lose experience. It's fundamental to the development engine.

[MrBojangles]

I' had this occur in OOTP 16. I wasn't on the forum yet so I didn't know I could ask for help. In my case, I just kept playing and his rating came back the next season. I know that's not much help, but it is what I saw.
I created my own story line for it about him falling off the wagon and then getting his career back together.

[TheBear650]

Originally Posted by RchW

Not aware of where it says players cannot lose experience. It's fundamental to the development engine.

"Note: A player cannot 'lose' positions. Once he has learned a position, he will always have a rating at that position." From the OOTP 17 manual. And from past experiences i have done similar things, not playing a player at a certain position for years and never had this happen. Its possible that losing experience is a newer concept in the latest few versions, as I have not been playing solo leagues for a few years now.

[TheBear650]

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

I' had this occur in OOTP 16. I wasn't on the forum yet so I didn't know I could ask for help. In my case, I just kept playing and his rating came back the next season. I know that's not much help, but it is what I saw.
I created my own story line for it about him falling off the wagon and then getting his career back together.

Did his rating have to build back up from 20 and so on, or did he jump back to his original rating faster? Thanks

[RchW]

Originally Posted by TheBear650

"Note: A player cannot 'lose' positions. Once he has learned a position, he will always have a rating at that position." From the OOTP 17 manual. And from past experiences i have done similar things, not playing a player at a certain position for years and never had this happen. Its possible that losing experience is a newer concept in the latest few versions, as I have not been playing solo leagues for a few years now.

If that is the case I'm very disappointed. A few versions ago I documented how aging AllStar 1B who had somehow retained minimal SS ratings were being signed by AI teams in their mid-thirties and made starting SS despite horrendous defense. It quite literally ruined the statistical integrity of the game. I'm quite sure that the response from OOTPD was to increase the rate at which players lost their ability to play unsuitable positions.

I haven't played enough v17 to know if this is true. If so I'd question my continued support for the game. Players should never retain multiple position ratings as they age. They should lose the ability in the same order as the defensive spectrum ie SS first and so on... ...

[NoOne]

yes, you lose experience if they don't play the position for long periods of time. if it is not their primary position, it drops faster -- i believe.

relates back to being on the 25-man roster means they are staying ready - same idea why "rust" doesn't occur on the active roster, they also work on their primary position. so, if it doens't occur to the primary position, i wouldn't be surprised.

This could be due to the player's arm dropping below a threshold for an OF. it was already low at 40. you could go into the editor and see if any of the individual of fielding ratings are the cause of the disappearing position.

e.g. a 3b needs at least a 25/200? turn dp or it won't display that position regardless of experience.

[TheBear650]

Originally Posted by NoOne

yes, you lose experience if they don't play the position for long periods of time. if it is not their primary position, it drops faster -- i believe.

relates back to being on the 25-man roster means they are staying ready - same idea why "rust" doesn't occur on the active roster, they also work on their primary position. so, if it doens't occur to the primary position, i wouldn't be surprised.

This could be due to the player's arm dropping below a threshold for an OF. it was already low at 40. you could go into the editor and see if any of the individual of fielding ratings are the cause of the disappearing position.

e.g. a 3b needs at least a 25/200? turn dp or it won't display that position regardless of experience.

Online league, cant go into editor... But his arm is 40, with other LF showing rating with a 30 arm so I dont believe that is the issue. Lets say hes lost his experience at LF, will he relearn it faster than someone learning the position for the first time... or will it be the classic 1 experience for 1 game played? thanks

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by RchW

If that is the case I'm very disappointed. A few versions ago I documented how aging AllStar 1B who had somehow retained minimal SS ratings were being signed by AI teams in their mid-thirties and made starting SS despite horrendous defense. It quite literally ruined the statistical integrity of the game. I'm quite sure that the response from OOTPD was to increase the rate at which players lost their ability to play unsuitable positions.

I haven't played enough v17 to know if this is true. If so I'd question my continued support for the game. Players should never retain multiple position ratings as they age. They should lose the ability in the same order as the defensive spectrum ie SS first and so on... ...

It SHOULD be that a player never loses experience at a position, but that the range rating deteriorates to move him down the defensive spectrum. The problem is that the A.I. basically ignores the position requirements for players to display a rating at a position when selecting a lineup, I believe, and also does not care how many runs a fielder allows with his glove, only how many he creates with his bat.

Allowing experience to degrade causes its own problem in that aging shortstops have no value as backup infielders if they have been playing nothing but shortstop for 10 years.

[b10wick]

Had a somewhat similar situation in my online league. I had Chase Headley as my 3B and he suffered a season ending injury in late September (herniated disc) which he was out of commission for 6-7 weeks with. I knew he was a + defender at 3B for a majority of the season according to UZR, but after end of the season developmental reports came out I saw that Headley had completely lost his 3B rating and was now only 25 rated at both 1B and LF. I then went in to check his final stats for 2016 and his UZR wound up as a -0.7. Not great, but not horrendous either. I was shocked and, needless to say, forced to try to trade him and his salary. What an adventure that was. Had to re-acquire Melvin Upton in Atlanta!

[TheBear650]

If anyone could clarify: will this player regain the experience in LF faster than normal, or hes back to square one and have to learn the position all over again? thanks to everyone commenting on this post

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Questdog

It SHOULD be that a player never loses experience at a position, but that the range rating deteriorates to move him down the defensive spectrum. The problem is that the A.I. basically ignores the position requirements for players to display a rating at a position when selecting a lineup, I believe, and also does not care how many runs a fielder allows with his glove, only how many he creates with his bat.

Allowing experience to degrade causes its own problem in that aging shortstops have no value as backup infielders if they have been playing nothing but shortstop for 10 years.

Hopefull this is worked on for the future because the team building for the AI is suffering as of now. AI values the bat so much that they will for example give big money to a backup catcher to sit on the bench. (Catchers are too good offensively in the game; lots of power.)

[canaveral]

Kris Bryant lost his third base rating at age 33 in a random debut league. His zone rating had plunged well into the negatives for 3 years.

As an aside, his offense was also trailing off.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by TheBear650

"Note: A player cannot 'lose' positions. Once he has learned a position, he will always have a rating at that position." From the OOTP 17 manual. And from past experiences i have done similar things, not playing a player at a certain position for years and never had this happen. Its possible that losing experience is a newer concept in the latest few versions, as I have not been playing solo leagues for a few years now.

Well, this is outdated then. A player can indeed lose experience at a position if he does not play it for a long time and end up losing the position rating.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, this is outdated then. A player can indeed lose experience at a position if he does not play it for a long time and end up losing the position rating.

Thanks for confirming this.

[Abnerdoubleday]

A realistic fix suggestion: Put a limit on how low position experience can decline to, say, no lower than 100. Defensive skills do decline from not being used at a specific position, but they don't disappear, and come back pretty quickly if used again.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by TheBear650

Online league, cant go into editor... But his arm is 40, with other LF showing rating with a 30 arm so I dont believe that is the issue. Lets say hes lost his experience at LF, will he relearn it faster than someone learning the position for the first time... or will it be the classic 1 experience for 1 game played? thanks

you lose exp pretty slowly in secondary positions, despite the quote from the manual. we could post that mistake in the recent thread collecting that type of info. maybe they never drop below 1/200 once they learn a position? that would fullfill what was quoted from the manual from a certain point of view.

anyway, make a league and go edit some players, you can learn minimum ratings. even though it's /250 i the editor, convert based on /200. 201-250 are above the normal range of your chosen ratings scale.

30/80 or 30/100? if it's the previous, i'd bet it's too low to show a value for a corner OF'er. if it's the latter, i'd bet it's at least near the threshold for that position. rhetorical, no need to reply to that. give them 200 experience and type in some values for arm strength while the other 2 of-def-ratings remain the same.

[TuckerDuckson]

I've had one of my former career third baseman lose his third base eligibility after playing first base for 4 consecutive years, none of his fielding ratings had gone down.

Firstbase rating: 200 (resulting rating: 106)

Thirdbase rating: 173 (resulting rating: 0) ?

Seems pretty weird to me

[RchW]

Originally Posted by TuckerDuckson

I've had one of my former career third baseman lose his third base eligibility after playing first base for 4 consecutive years, none of his fielding ratings had gone down.

Firstbase rating: 200 (resulting rating: 106)

Thirdbase rating: 173 (resulting rating: 0) ?

Seems pretty weird to me

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. OTOH if he had played 3B I'd expect him to retain more of his 1B rating

[jberg57]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, this is outdated then. A player can indeed lose experience at a position if he does not play it for a long time and end up losing the position rating.

Isnt there a setting where player ratings are recalculated based on yearly positioning? There are sometimes where I have a stud reliever and I want him to transition to start. I have him in AA starting all year throwing over 150 innings and the next year his stamina is still 30