PINQ: Spritze or Other Ratings Gurus (Creating Player Ratings)

[Eugene Church]

I will manually create all the players ratings in my new custom league.
I will create the players in Free Agents and then assign them to a team... the players ratings will be based on stats taken from Baseball-Reference.

I plan to replay the Southern Association from '47 to '59... updating the team rosters each new season with the new players... I would turn off player development.

I will use the Player Editor to create the players ratings... see screenshot below for Batter and for Pitcher.

If I create a batter with these stats... will the results be fairly similar at the end of the season?

If I create a pitcher with these stats... will the results be fairly similar at the end of the season?

I compared the above players resulting stats in my test league and they were not very close to their projected stats.
1963 was the year settings used for league totals in the test season.

Batter: 592 PA/547 AB/139 H/24 doubles/5 triples/9 HR/32 BB/65 K/.254 BA

Pitcher: 245 IP/253 HA/12 HRA/98 BB/131 K/.269 OAVG/3.44 ERA

[NoOne]

okay, i would make use of commissioner mode and the information given in the player profile editor.

you will need to understand the difference between your league (league totals, league modifiers etc) and a "Modern MLB Environment" predicted statistics in order to answer this question. each league could be different.

How:
make a player a completely average hitter (use 99/200 in editor. it should result in 5/10 or 50/80 or 50/100 etc) and see what the slash is for a modern MLB in the editor... this will give you a way to compare your league to the editor's guesstimation of results. i'm assuming you have an idea of what your stat output to fluctuate around, so you should know what "average" is in your new league already. (slash line in game on Stats and AI page will help too)

An Example and the reverse:

if you see that slugging is lower in your league when compared to the average mlb modern player from editor, you will need additional power to reach the same # of home runs (amongst other power #s of course - depends on ratios of various types of hits, i'd guess... have fun) given in the editor for the ratings you have given the newly created player.

if slugging is higher in your league, then you will need less power to hit the same # of home runs that the editor guesstimate gives for modern mlb environment.


i have a league with static ltm that results in a long term average slash of .256/.319/.399... my players average about 3-5% less power (slugging results of individuals in comparison to editor predictions) than the modern mlb environment in the player profile editor resulting stats. i can't give a smaller range because i've never tried to figure it out with precision... i just know with that slash above, sim results are consistently lower than the profile editor prediction. that should be useful info for comparison.

i think that "modern mlb environment" expects 4900 home runs, which when you exclude steroid years has happend or nearly happened 1 time in the history of the MLB. if i am right, i blame the lack of sophistication of the buyers, not the people that chose that ridiculous value, lol. as we all know, "chicks dig the long-ball."

[NoOne]

i forgot to say, if you try to look at an individual's results and apply whatever the difference of the resulting leagues to any particular year, it won't do you much good due to volatility of individual results. applying it to the career while accounting for aging and injuries would be okay... that also assumes fairly consistent ratings throughout the time period you are adding up for an average.

that's also why i am not 100% certain about it's value from the "eye-test".... if you read anythign i write i despise the eye-test... i hesitate to even mention the info, but in this case i think it helps.

[Eugene Church]

My league stats will be whatever the Southern Association team stats were in whatever year I am playing.

Basically .265-.270 league BA with 600-900 homers and .965-.970 FA... league around 4.00-4.15 ERA.

I'm going to set up a test league with the real players and give them ratings in the "resulting stats" section of the player editor and see what happens.

[Eugene Church]

No One, you seem to have an excellent knowledge of the game... forgive me if the following doesn't make much sense.

Can I reset the Test League with no history and use it as my real league?

I intend to take the league totals and position modifiers from the test leagues and place them in the actual league.

I would like to keep the final player ratings intact so I don't have to enter them twice... once for the test league... and once for the actual league.

That is, I would wipe out the league history and clear career records.
This can be done in Game Settings under Reset Functions.
I would Erase "Service Time of all players"... Erase "all SA career stats"... Erase "all career stats of all players" and Erase "the entire league history".

I understand there is also a place to "purge" the league stats... this will completely clear out all the league stats and get them back to zero to start the real league.

The "purge" is in Game Settings > Database> Database Tools.

Would the above work?

Should I make a copy of the league at the beginning of the season and reinstall it when I get ready to play the actual league?

Would a template be the best method to cut down on the data imput needed?

I have never made a template or used one... as you know, my computer and game skills are poor.

[Spritze]

Since you are not playing in a Neutral nor a Modern nor a Major League environment using the editor will not give you the accurate player ratings you are hoping to get.

If you just import the player stats into OOTP it will automagically set the player ratings to the non-neutral non-modern non-major league setting of the Southern League in the years 1947-1959.

There is a MiLB ERA Stats file that controls this. I'll attach a tiny bit of it so you can get an idea. There are 50 or so items tracked for each year. I am just including a few of the non-proprietary pieces.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Spritze

Since you are not playing in a Neutral nor a Modern nor a Major League environment using the editor will not give you the accurate player ratings you are hoping to get.

If you just import the player stats into OOTP it will automagically set the player ratings to the non-neutral non-modern non-major league setting of the Southern League in the years 1947-1959.

There is a MiLB ERA Stats file that controls this. I'll attach a tiny bit of it so you can get an idea. There are 50 or so items tracked for each year. I am just including a few of the non-proprietary pieces.

Sorry to be so dense... I have read the manual 5 times to try and get some idea of how to set up the Southern Association replay... I tried to set up a historical league using the setup wizard, but apparently didn't do it correctly.

The rosters are a mess... Atlanta only has 6 players... Little Rock has none... Memphis has 8... Mobile first showed 20 players, then none ... Nashville none... New Orleans none... Chattanooga 21... Little Rock none and Birmingham 25.

And most of the players listed on Chattanooga and Birmingham didn't play for the team in 1947

At one time in the process Mobile had about 20 players on it roster, but was missing the primary players for that year: Cal Abrams, Chuck Conners, George Shuba, Stan Wasiak, Bill Hart, Homer Matley, Roy Boles, John Hall, Frank Laga, Pat McGlothin, Paul Minner and Roy Whitaker... then for some reason there were no players on the rosters.

Strangely, at the top of the screen where you are supposed to select the team you want to edit, on the Southern Association league selection, you see a Major League team listed... when you go to the Major Leagues, you see the last Southern Association team you looked at... why is this?

See screenshot.

I will repeat the process tomorrow and take notes and post what choices I make and what happens in each step of the process.

Once you properly set up a historical minor league, does OOTPB have a minor league database that can be accessed, so the correct players can be imported and placed on the rosters?... It seemed to be loading up minor league players... it took a little while to import the minor league players in the wizard setup process... plus it had plenty of minor leagues to choose from in the list... so it looks like their is a minor league database contained in the game... I tried to import Cal Abrams using the ID "abrams001cal"... it wouldn't let me put his full last name... there was room only for "abrams001c"... and it didn't import him to the free agents.

Am I the only one trying to set up a league replay of just one league and not be concerned about the parent major league teams and their minor league affiliates?... I just want the primary players that played in the Southern Association each year from 1947 through the 1959 season.

Is this possible to do?

Should I just forget the whole thing and just do a fictional league?

It looks like I'm too ignorant to create a league like this... I know people on the Forum are tired of my requests for help.

[Eugene Church]

Just to see what would happen... I tried to get the AI to set up the rosters... it wouldn't fill the rosters... I played the opening day games... there were lots and lots of "J. Unknowns".

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

The rosters are a mess... Atlanta only has 6 players... Little Rock has none... Memphis has 8... Mobile first showed 20 players, then none ... Nashville none... New Orleans none... Chattanooga 21... Little Rock none and Birmingham 25. This has been explained to you previously

Strangely, at the top of the screen where you are supposed to select the team you want to edit, on the Southern Association league selection, you see a Major League team listed... when you go to the Major Leagues, you see the last Southern Association team you looked at... why is this? User Interface works this way on purpose


Once you properly set up a historical minor league, does OOTPB have a minor league database that can be accessed, so the correct players can be imported and placed on the rosters? Yes but
is a minor league database contained in the game YES... I tried to import Cal Abrams using the ID "abrams001cal"... it wouldn't let me put his full last name... there was room only for "abrams001c"... and it didn't import him to the free agents. This feature has not yet been implemented

Am I the only one trying to set up a league replay of just one league and not be concerned about the parent major league teams and their minor league affiliates? It appears so
Is this possible to do? Not unless one has gobs and gobs of time and huge OOTP understanding and skills. It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

Should I just forget the whole thing and just do a fictional league? Probably. OOTP can be set up to be a career historical league or a single year replay. Multi-year replay like you wish to undertake is not currently supported.

You are trying to create something outside the realm of currently supported OOTP setups. OOTP has the information in its minor league database to create what you wish to do but the game structure for it does not yet exist.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Spritze

You are trying to create something outside the realm of currently supported OOTP setups. OOTP has the information in its minor league database to create what you wish to do but the game structure for it does not yet exist.

Thanks for your help, Spritze. I know I'm a dense, ignorant, confused and painful pest.

I will just create some other dynasty...a fictional one... my beloved Southern Association will just have to wait until OOTPB will make it possible to have multi-year replays for the minor leagues.

Well, all is not lost with my endless ramblings trying to create the old Southern Association... Bighorn found me league schedule and taught me how to import a real 154-game schedule with doubleheaders.

I have learned how to unzip files.

And I have discovered what an absolutely great game OOTP17 is... it is truly magnificent!... remember most of my play had been with OOTP12 with the Islandian Pro Alliance dynasty and a few seasons in OOTP15 and OOTP16 with the State Line League dynasty.

This old computer curmudgeon is making some progress in the world of technology and in the wonderful world of OOTPB.

[NoOne]

i don't know much about historical stuff, but it looks like spritze has the right idea for what you are doing. sounds cools that it can automatically convert the real stats to ratings. didn't know that. only use assign fictional contracts, if necessary... or any of the financial functions on the main league settings page.

If it is still relevant, yes to all of that. but i wouldn't erase service time. that way a 35 year old isn't under club control - if that even applies to your league.

purge will remove deleted entries from the dB and if you delete stats, you might as well delete all retired players, too. it's good to do every ?50 years? depends on the cpu a bit, i guess. just in case of records, i only make use of the "delete those who never make it to the majors" function.

for testing... i make the league as I intend to use it... i sim 30 years, if fictional. i delete history/retired players and such to make it "fresh." i make a backup as is. if i am doing long-term sims, i make necessary settings changes to reduce sim time but keep all tangible functions of the league (ie no pictures, box scores, news etc, i do keep all stats, just in case). i make a backup of this long-term sim setting league for testing.

as long as the both share the exact same origins, i'm confident anything i test will translate. with each backed up, i don't worry about doing somethign stupid. in general, i'd restart any sim from the start date. setting configurations exist that could cause a constant increase or decrease in talent for a long-period of time until a new equillibrium reached. if you don't deviate much from default, i wouldn't worry about that.

and as far as getting better with computers, you just needed some motivation and self-interest in it

-------------------

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

No One, you seem to have an excellent knowledge of the game... forgive me if the following doesn't make much sense.

Can I reset the Test League with no history and use it as my real league?

I intend to take the league totals and position modifiers from the test leagues and place them in the actual league.

I would like to keep the final player ratings intact so I don't have to enter them twice... once for the test league... and once for the actual league.

That is, I would wipe out the league history and clear career records.
This can be done in Game Settings under Reset Functions.
I would Erase "Service Time of all players"... Erase "all SA career stats"... Erase "all career stats of all players" and Erase "the entire league history".

I understand there is also a place to "purge" the league stats... this will completely clear out all the league stats and get them back to zero to start the real league.

The "purge" is in Game Settings > Database> Database Tools.

Would the above work?

Should I make a copy of the league at the beginning of the season and reinstall it when I get ready to play the actual league?

Would a template be the best method to cut down on the data imput needed?

I have never made a template or used one... as you know, my computer and game skills are poor.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by NoOne

i don't know much about historical stuff, but it looks like spritze has the right idea for what you are doing. sounds cools that it can automatically convert the real stats to ratings. didn't know that. only use assign fictional contracts, if necessary... or any of the financial functions on the main league settings page.

If it is still relevant, yes to all of that. but i wouldn't erase service time. that way a 35 year old isn't under club control - if that even applies to your league.

purge will remove deleted entries from the dB and if you delete stats, you might as well delete all retired players, too. it's good to do every ?50 years? depends on the cpu a bit, i guess. just in case of records, i only make use of the "delete those who never make it to the majors" function.

for testing... i make the league as I intend to use it... i sim 30 years, if fictional. i delete history/retired players and such to make it "fresh." i make a backup as is. if i am doing long-term sims, i make necessary settings changes to reduce sim time but keep all tangible functions of the league (ie no pictures, box scores, news etc, i do keep all stats, just in case). i make a backup of this long-term sim setting league for testing.

as long as the both share the exact same origins, i'm confident anything i test will translate. with each backed up, i don't worry about doing somethign stupid. in general, i'd restart any sim from the start date. setting configurations exist that could cause a constant increase or decrease in talent for a long-period of time until a new equillibrium reached. if you don't deviate much from default, i wouldn't worry about that.

and as far as getting better with computers, you just needed some motivation and self-interest in it

-------------------

NoOne, thanks for your help on my ill-fated Southern Association project... you have certainly improved my game knowledge.

Much appreciate your help.

[NoOne]

if you were willing to hand-make the players, you don't have to give up. the effort requirement didn't change. you could even make it something you want to do on the side.

there's almost always a way if it is import/exportable. e.g. as long as you re-use existing playerid's and account for year of birth, you can transplant players between leagues, despite it not being supported by ootp itself - an entire league or a few players is easy... selective along with a great quantity requires more hands-on effort.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by NoOne

if you were willing to hand-make the players, you don't have to give up. the effort requirement didn't change. you could even make it something you want to do on the side.

there's almost always a way if it is import/exportable. e.g. as long as you re-use existing playerid's and account for year of birth, you can transplant players between leagues, despite it not being supported by ootp itself - an entire league or a few players is easy... selective along with a great quantity requires more hands-on effort.

Yeah, I used to use someone's database back in 2006 to import my All-Time All-Star Association dynasty players... I can't remember who created the historical database... in general it worked well, there were some great disparities... Tom Seaver was 7-22 his first season with a 5.02 ERA... Harmon Killebrew was horrible at bat and in the field... Hank Aaron, as great a hitter as he was... I don't think I have ever seen a better... he only hit a modest .250 in my league... he had trouble making the starting lineup... there were a few cases of players not performing to their real stats... this was way, way back when I used OOTP6 and OOTP6.1... which were really good stable versions of the game... just very basic though.

As a workaround, I'm going to create a fictional league... and I will try to find players whose ratings matchup with the Southern Association players and just change their names... it may not be perfect, but at least, I will be able to use players that actually played in the Southern Association... hopefully the stats will be somewhat close to their talent ratings.

I'm going to give it a try.

Thanks for the advice.

[swampdragon]

Try creating a normal 1947 historical game with the following settings:

1. You are Commissioner.
2. AI roster changes are blocked. All teams are placed under human control.



The reason for this is that the AI will intervene and pull the good players out of the Southern League before you can stop it, placing them on other teams within the organization or even on other teams outside the organization they played for that season. Those settings may minimize the damage.

After that, I see no alternative to finding the players on the Southern League rosters one player at a time and using the editor to place those players on the correct teams. If you have the settings I suggested, at least the players won't disappear a second time. They should all be out there somewhere. Start with the parent club and its other affiliated teams.

[Bigrod]

I'm almost positive I can do this for you Eugene...your just missing a few steps.
Right now I'm almost done with my NCAA D1 setup..once done..I'll see if my suspicions work.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Try creating a normal 1947 historical game with the following settings:

1. You are Commissioner.
2. AI roster changes are blocked. All teams are placed under human control.



The reason for this is that the AI will intervene and pull the good players out of the Southern League before you can stop it, placing them on other teams within the organization or even on other teams outside the organization they played for that season. Those settings may minimize the damage.

After that, I see no alternative to finding the players on the Southern League rosters one player at a time and using the editor to place those players on the correct teams. If you have the settings I suggested, at least the players won't disappear a second time. They should all be out there somewhere. Start with the parent club and its other affiliated teams.

I think this is the way I sat it up... commissioner mode was chosen in the setup.

I think I messed up creating the league... it looks like I may have imported the minor league database twice.

Thanks for the suggestion... I'll see what happens.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Bigrod

I'm almost positive I can do this for you Eugene...your just missing a few steps.
Right now I'm almost done with my NCAA D1 setup..once done..I'll see if my suspicions work.

I'm sure I missed some steps, too... the setup wizard is sometimes confusing... there is one place that asked to start the league a second time... or at least, that's what it appears to me... not sure this is the way to do it.

Spritze is pretty sure OOTP17 will not do the league I want.

Bighorn, thanks for your great help... the schedule worked like a dream... much appreciate your help.

Glad to have you back on the Forum... don't spend a lot of time on helping me.

[swampdragon]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

I think this is the way I sat it up... commissioner mode was chosen in the setup.

I think I messed up creating the league... it looks like I may have imported the minor league database twice.

Thanks for the suggestion... I'll see what happens.

Just choosing commissioner mode is necessary but not sufficient. You also have to block all AI roster changes.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Just choosing commissioner mode is necessary but not sufficient. You also have to block all AI roster changes.

Thanks for the tip...very important... I noticed at the end of the season that players has been moved to other leagues by the AI.

I just recreated the Southern Association... think I did it fairly correct this time... ran a test season... it still has a huge flaw... rosters are not accurate at all... really poor.

League stats not very close to real life... I didn't have a single .300 hitter... the batting title went to a guy with a .296 BA... the real leader that year, the great Ted Kluszewski hit a lofty .377 to top the league.

Don't think I'm going to use the historicals this time around... they need much improvement, but at least it is a fair attempt to improve the game.

See the Batting Stats for 1947... they had 35 batters over .300... very few of the leaders were in my test league... maybe 3-5 of them.