Thoughts on including 3 team trades?

Joemcf09 · 02-23-2016, 10:24 AM

I'm hoping to see in this release or future releases a feature that includes 3 team trades, what are your thoughts on this?

thirdsaint · 02-23-2016, 10:40 AM

I would love this too, no doubt it's complicated to code but it happens often enough that it should get in the game at some point.

Markus Heinsohn · 02-23-2016, 11:13 AM

Won't happen anytime soon, this is almost impossible to code correctly.

thirdsaint · 02-23-2016, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Won't happen anytime soon, this is almost impossible to code correctly.

Ha, that's what I thought. That's alright, 3-team trades happen far more in basketball than any other sport anyhow.

Joemcf09 · 02-23-2016, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Won't happen anytime soon, this is almost impossible to code correctly.

Oh ok, I didn't realize the difficulty in terms of doing the coding, I tend to forget that stuff lol still excited for this game can't wait to play it. Also looking forward to the beyond the sidelines game too.

Cryomaniac · 02-23-2016, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joemcf09

Oh ok, I didn't realize the difficulty in terms of doing the coding, I tend to forget that stuff lol still excited for this game can't wait to play it. Also looking forward to the beyond the sidelines game too.

Two team trades are complex enough to code ai for, let alone three team ones!

Assos · 02-23-2016, 01:09 PM

In reality, a three team trade is nothing more then two trades involving three clubs. Take this failed trade from yesterday, Blue Jays trade Michael Saunders and two minor leaguers to the Reds for Jay Bruce and the Reds trade Michael Saunders to the Angels for more minor league fodder. (Let's be honest, the Reds are looking for warm bodies right now) As you see, the Reds in theory could trade for Saunders without completing the trade to the Angels. The deals fell apart due to the fact that one of the minor leaguers in the Jays system was not healthy and apparently the Reds really wanted him. This is just two trades in the OOTP world, it would just look prettier on one line.

Huckleberry · 02-23-2016, 01:13 PM

I can see that coding the AI to offer three team trades would be a nightmare, but for the AI to consider three team trades seems like it could be fairly straightforward. Regardless how many teams are involved in a trade, each team has a "players/picks/cash out" and a "players/picks/cash in" evaluation to consider.

Or is the difficulty in actually executing the trade?

bertinlefkovic · 02-23-2016, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Won't happen anytime soon, this is almost impossible to code correctly.

As is, when you have one live GM and 29 AI GMs, it is not that difficult to replicate the basics of a multi-team trade even in the two-team trading format. The live GM knows going into each of the components of the deal how s/he is satisfying her/his needs and the needs of the multiple trading partners when structuring a deal.

I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that most multi-team deals are really mutually inclusive two-team deals that are mostly negotiated separately. I seriously doubt that multiple GMs get on the phone together at the same time to hash out a deal. If anything, it is the prisoner's dilemma element of these kinds of negotiations that enable one GM to benefit more than another through the arbitrage of player values.

While it would be fun to be able to negotiate a multi-team deal in real time, I think that the "limitations" of the existing trading platform are probably closer to reality than any approximations produced by an enhanced AI platform. Keep on doing what you're doing. OOTP IS AWESOME!!!

Just out of curiosity, did you or any of your people ever play Strat-o-Matic baseball and/or football? OOTP seems inspired by that kind of game, although with so much more. The only thing missing is the cards and the die rolls, but I am guessing that OOTP's AI offers infinitely more potential outcomes than whatever the random combinations of 3 six-sided and 1 20-sided die rolls can produce.

Sweed · 02-23-2016, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I can see that coding the AI to offer three team trades would be a nightmare, but for the AI to consider three team trades seems like it could be fairly straightforward. Regardless how many teams are involved in a trade, each team has a "players/picks/cash out" and a "players/picks/cash in" evaluation to consider.

Or is the difficulty in actually executing the trade?

So are you saying the AI won't be able to offer three way trades but could consider them? Well too me that means only the human controlled teams would then be able to make three way offers and that seems to be an "advantage issue" that we might not want? Of course nobody would be forced to use three way trades but it still could be lots of coding for little benefit? Markus would have to make that decision.

Huckleberry · 02-23-2016, 02:41 PM

I was only discussing it from a theoretical coding standpoint. I agree that as a game feature it would be something the AI should be able to propose, too. Just trying to figure out exactly where the hangup is in the coding.

Padreman · 02-23-2016, 03:29 PM

Let me ask do any other sport sim game have 3 team trade option? Maybe not possible. One thing I wish you could do While playing in commissioner mode is initiate traits between teams that you don't control. Basically make trades between AI team number one and AI team number two

Bluenoser · 02-23-2016, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Padreman

Let me ask do any other sport sim game have 3 team trade option? Maybe not possible. One thing I wish you could do While playing in commissioner mode is initiate traits between teams that you don't control. Basically make trades between AI team number one and AI team number two

You can, just use the "Act as" option for one of the teams, then work out a trade with the other. Not ideal, but it works.

mgom27 · 02-23-2016, 09:29 PM

NBATK16 does but haven't seen one made in it but have tryed.

02-23-2016, 10:24 AM	#1
Joemcf09 Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 9	Thoughts on including 3 team trades? I'm hoping to see in this release or future releases a feature that includes 3 team trades, what are your thoughts on this?

02-23-2016, 11:13 AM	#3
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	Won't happen anytime soon, this is almost impossible to code correctly. __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

02-23-2016, 03:29 PM	#12
Padreman Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2013 Location: Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico (formally San Diego, CA.) Posts: 4,131	Let me ask do any other sport sim game have 3 team trade option? Maybe not possible. One thing I wish you could do While playing in commissioner mode is initiate traits between teams that you don't control. Basically make trades between AI team number one and AI team number two __________________ Chargers= Despicable Traitors Last edited by Padreman; 02-23-2016 at 03:33 PM.

02-23-2016, 09:29 PM	#14
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,534	NBATK16 does but haven't seen one made in it but have tryed. __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

02-23-2016, 10:40 AM	#2
thirdsaint Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Chicago Posts: 364	I would love this too, no doubt it's complicated to code but it happens often enough that it should get in the game at some point.

02-23-2016, 01:09 PM	#7
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,768	In reality, a three team trade is nothing more then two trades involving three clubs. Take this failed trade from yesterday, Blue Jays trade Michael Saunders and two minor leaguers to the Reds for Jay Bruce and the Reds trade Michael Saunders to the Angels for more minor league fodder. (Let's be honest, the Reds are looking for warm bodies right now) As you see, the Reds in theory could trade for Saunders without completing the trade to the Angels. The deals fell apart due to the fact that one of the minor leaguers in the Jays system was not healthy and apparently the Reds really wanted him. This is just two trades in the OOTP world, it would just look prettier on one line.

02-23-2016, 01:13 PM	#8
Huckleberry All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 581	I can see that coding the AI to offer three team trades would be a nightmare, but for the AI to consider three team trades seems like it could be fairly straightforward. Regardless how many teams are involved in a trade, each team has a "players/picks/cash out" and a "players/picks/cash in" evaluation to consider. Or is the difficulty in actually executing the trade?

02-23-2016, 02:41 PM	#11
Huckleberry All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 581	I was only discussing it from a theoretical coding standpoint. I agree that as a game feature it would be something the AI should be able to propose, too. Just trying to figure out exactly where the hangup is in the coding.