Independent league> Minor league contract?

[diesel230]

I recently offered Josh Vitters a minor league deal with my Yankees. He said I would have to offer him something better than a minor league deal. He's 25 years old with extensive triple A experience and would have been on my triple A team to replace my injured third baseman. Exactly 2 weeks later he signs with Sugarland in the independent league for 13,000 a year.

My question is does the game recognize the $13,000 a year in independent ball a better deal than "Minor league contract" in AAA with the Yankees since it doesn't have a monetary amount? I hope not. This particular scenario seems pretty improbable.

[SirMichaelJordan]

My answer from experience is yes. A bonus would usually do the trick though.

[ra7c7er]

Yes but as SirMichael said signing bonuses do the trick. I've gotten to the point where i don't even offer a flat out minor league contract unless it's a guy I'm only getting to be a low minors who I'm going to forget about 10 seconds later. Everyone else gets a signing bonus.

[Biggio509]

This is something the devs maybe need to address now but it is not going to be easy. The entire finances really need to be reworked to achieve the right feel.

What I think needs to happen is that minor league contracts should have a monetary value. This was ok before indy leagues were default but now that you have competing leagues both indy and int the real set up of MLB needs to be in there. MLB clubs pay all their minor leaguers. Setting contracts as actual amounts would fix this. This would mean that the MLB teams revenue and costs might need to be adjusted. However, it would fix the problem that a guy is offered a minor league contract which in real life would pay more than an Indy or the Taiwan League but in the game has no value. So the CPB or an Indy wins out.

Indy's and low level foreign majors should only be an option for those who are not getting contracts with a MLB team. I don't think Indy pay is anywhere close to a minor league contract. I think they could set a $ amount for each level. It doesn't have to be the bands you have in the MLB. I am not sure there is a high variance in minor league contracts.

The other big fix I think is needed is service time limits for minors. That would mean minor league service time would need to be calculated. I am ok with that not happening now because I know it would take significant AI work for the AI to handle a player being DQ from A or below. It would likely bring the sign release problem.

[Questdog]

Professional service time is already calculated.

[diesel230]

If implementing money amounts for minor league players is to hard to code; then a hidden "salary" type structure or even a class system where the game recognizes that starting at triple A is a better deal then independent ball but perhaps indy is better than playing in single A or even AA.

[Lukas Berger]

Not 100% sure, but I don't think this is hard to code or anything. If I'm recalling things correctly from past discussions with Markus the MiLB offer should be valued enough to be more attractive than low level indy offers.

I think it's just a bug. I'll report it and we'll see what happens.

[diesel230]

Thanks Lukas. While i have your ear. Any word on the % of foreign personnel going overseas for jobs? Its so frustrating seeing top American Baseball men becoming bench coaches for Dutch teams and Korean's signing in Mexico and MLB

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by diesel230

Thanks Lukas. While i have your ear. Any word on the % of foreign personnel going overseas for jobs? Its so frustrating seeing top American Baseball men becoming bench coaches for Dutch teams and Korean's signing in Mexico and MLB

I know, frustrates me too. Matt tweaked it a while ago, but not nearly enough imo. I still have an open bug report on it, so I'll probably bump that soon and see what Markus or Matt have to say about it.

[diesel230]

I appreciate the help and you being on top of things.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Not 100% sure, but I don't think this is hard to code or anything. If I'm recalling things correctly from past discussions with Markus the MiLB offer should be valued enough to be more attractive than low level indy offers.

I think it's just a bug. I'll report it and we'll see what happens.

I don't think that's true. It wouldn't work the same in a fictional setup. Maybe in my game the Indy league pays just as much as the ml setup

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Not 100% sure, but I don't think this is hard to code or anything. If I'm recalling things correctly from past discussions with Markus the MiLB offer should be valued enough to be more attractive than low level indy offers.

I think it's just a bug. I'll report it and we'll see what happens.

I don't think so.

Most guys know they will never make the big club. So depending on the money the indy league offer could be better.

I'd agree that high potential guys should probably take the minor league contract with a MLB team but not everyone across the board. Most players, IMO, would take the best offer.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

I don't think so.

Most guys know they will never make the big club. So depending on the money the indy league offer could be better.

I'd agree that high potential guys should probably take the minor league contract with a MLB team but not everyone across the board. Most players, IMO, would take the best offer.

Essentially, what I remember is that the MiLB offer is supposed to have an actual $ amount. That, along with the respective levels of the leagues should be what determines where a player signs. If it isn't working like that in game now, it's probably a bug.

So you're not wrong, but players also shouldn't prefer just any indy league offer to an MiLB offer either.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I don't think that's true. It wouldn't work the same in a fictional setup. Maybe in my game the Indy league pays just as much as the ml setup

Not sure I totally understand the comment. Probably just being dense, sorry

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Essentially, what I remember is that the MiLB offer is supposed to have an actual $ amount. That, along with the respective levels of the leagues should be what determines where a player signs. If it isn't working like that in game now, it's probably a bug.

So you're not wrong, but players also shouldn't prefer just any indy league offer to an MiLB offer either.

If it does work I don't like the way the offer minor league contract works.

I will say this from what I've seen. If a ML team offers a minor league contract with a signing bonus 90% of the time they will take that over the same amount of money being offered by a indy team for one year (I did a lot of testing with this when I was deciding if my fictional world was going to have ML teams or indy teams). So yes the game give more clout to ML teams. The issue arises when you use the offer minor league contract in the drop down menu because there isn't a signing bonus when you do that. So to the player the indy league offer is better.

[diesel230]

Update- Josh Vitters played 5 games for SugarLand and had his contract purchased by the Chicago Cubs, the team he was drafted by and cut by. He's now in Triple AAA on a minor league deal. Full circle lol

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by diesel230

Update- Josh Vitters played 5 games for SugarLand and had his contract purchased by the Chicago Cubs, the team he was drafted by and cut by. He's now in Triple AAA on a minor league deal. Full circle lol

I figured that would happen. It's what happened nearly every single time in my test when I had similar issues.

I don't like the way the contracts work BUT I can tell you for sure good players will wind up in the MLB over indy leagues because even if indy leagues do sign somebody over a MLB club a MLB club will buy the player anyway. It's not the right answer to the issue but in the end the player winds up where they are supposed to.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Not sure I totally understand the comment. Probably just being dense, sorry

sorry, i was on my phone and being too quick. what i'm trying to say is that in real life, a minor league contract is worth more than an independent contract. but that is not true for every fictional setup. There should be a value for minor league deals that we can set.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

sorry, i was on my phone and being too quick. what i'm trying to say is that in real life, a minor league contract is worth more than an independent contract. but that is not true for every fictional setup. There should be a value for minor league deals that we can set.

Ok, gotcha. Makes sense.

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

I don't think so.

Most guys know they will never make the big club. So depending on the money the indy league offer could be better.

I'd agree that high potential guys should probably take the minor league contract with a MLB team but not everyone across the board. Most players, IMO, would take the best offer.

Disagree.

In real life, there are lots of guys out there, that a indy league would be happy to sign, that prefer no deal to signing with an Indy team. Not high-potential guys, but just established AAA/AAAA types -- e.g. Kevin Slowey, Scott Hairston, those kinds of guys. IRL a very few of those guys will go to the Indy leagues -- usually on short term contracts that they can opt out of -- but most of them will prefer to just wait for an offer from organized ball.

Think about it from the players POV: signing with an indy league team to a full-year contract (the only kind in OOTP) means spending six months on a bus, dealing with crappy facilities, being away from your family, making $3k a month. Signing a minor-league deal with organized ball likely means the same thing -- except that if an injury happens and the big club needs a spare part, they'll make ~$20,000 for spending a single week on the 40-man roster.

There is simply nothing Indy ball that can offer that compares to that. For 23 year olds trying to get back on the ladder and who have nothing else going on, indy ball makes sense. For 30 year olds with a wife and kids, and an established baseball resume, not so much. He's better off staying in shape and letting his agent work the phones.