OOTP should release earlier

frangipard · 01-27-2015, 11:33 AM

Obviously, this is not a suggestion for 2015, but for 2016 or afterwards.

I don't see the point about waiting until opening day to release the game. People start thinking about baseball in earnest after football season is over; and in February APBA, Strat-o-Matic, What If Sports and all kinds of people are ready to go with their most current product; OOTP is telling them to wait two full months.

By the time OOTP does release, it's the same time as MLB: The Show; they're probably less of a direct competitor for OOTP in terms of being very different kinds of games, but there are probably some people that might try OOTP if it was out a few weeks earlier. And certainly they are a competitor in terms of attention and media buzz.

The only real advantage to it is for those of us who play with real MLB/MiLB rosters; we can start the season with mostly all the right players on all the right teams. But for people into historical or fictional leagues, which as far as I can tell is at least half the fanbase, this is meaningless; they're waiting for a feature that adds no value to them. That's a huge disadvantage compared to the other sim games.

For those of us who do care about accurate rosters, well, we can suck it up and wait for the opening-day update; (as it is, as an accuracy geek, I personally don't start playing for real until there have been 2 or 3 roster updates/corrections, which means late April or even early May). Or for that matter, we can start with Spring Training rosters; I think Madden football launches this way -- the game drops with 70 man rosters and you begin by playing the 4 preseason games and making your cuts. It seemed odd last year that OOTP's big addition was Spring Training, but that you had to wait until the second in-game season to see it.

And no, "But OOTP is better than all of those!" is not a helpful response; lots of better products go unsold because of poor marketing. And I recognize that there are some actively don't want to market the game because they imagine that more sales necessarily means the game will be dumbed-down; I just don't buy that. So long as Markus is involved, I think the game will stay true to his vision, and I want him to have the resources and the incentive to keep improving the game. That means growing the fanbase, and marketing is part of that.

Lukas Berger · 01-27-2015, 04:20 PM

OOTP16 is currently scheduled for a March release.

frangipard · 01-27-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

OOTP16 is currently scheduled for a March release.

Thanks -- I actually saw that just after I posted this. But I think it said something like a week or two before opening day; I was thinking something more along the lines of "pitchers and catchers report" time.

Bluenoser · 01-27-2015, 05:35 PM

It's not that simple, especially with a small development team.

The new game work usually starts in earnest in the fall. So everything has to be built. Then there has to be a testing period, bug finding, fixes. This takes time.

It's not as simple as saying start earlier either, because attention has to be paid to the current version through the spring and summer.

And when you start changing schedules it has a snowball effect on a lot of other aspects of your business too.

"So much to do, so little time to do it in" as the old saying goes.

Ramzavail · 01-27-2015, 06:21 PM

I think a March/April release is perfect. I could understand if the team has consistently put out the product in June, but thats never been the case.

RchW · 01-27-2015, 06:48 PM

Keep in mind that baseball junkies and gamers predisposed to look at sports management sims will buy based on criteria other than the release date. The vast untapped market for OOTP is much more likely to respond to the game if it comes out just around opening day. Creating a desire or interest for a niche product is very much dependent on timing and events. The general euphoria around opening day or late ST is a very effective hook.

That segment are not scouring ST boxscores or the state of the orioles OF or if the Giants are due in a odd year. If the game launches too early they won't be paying attention and the message will be lost in other noise. The correlation between release day sales and total sales is pretty direct. Getting that day right is critical.

Product growth depends on wider market appeal. A ST release would not attract the market needed for that growth IMO. Having said that I'm the equivalent of the Holiday Inn Express surgeon, what do I know.

From what I see Brad and Markus seem to have a good plan in place.

frangipard · 01-27-2015, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

It's not that simple, especially with a small development team.

It's the same whether you have a big team or a small team: you'd have one year of accelerated timeline, and that year's game would probably have less in the way of new features, but after that it's back to normal. Lots and lots of annual software projects move up their release dates; I've worked on one It's not easy or fun, but it's not some insurmountable challenge to do in eleven months what normally takes twelve.

frangipard · 01-27-2015, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Keep in mind that baseball junkies and gamers predisposed to look at sports management sims will buy based on criteria other than the release date.

Of course. Very few people buy anything based solely on the release date. But it's a factor.

Quote:

The vast untapped market for OOTP is much more likely to respond to the game if it comes out just around opening day.

Disagree.

Quote:

Creating a desire or interest for a niche product is very much dependent on timing and events.

Agree.

Quote:

The general euphoria around opening day or late ST is a very effective hook.

I think there's more buzz to be had when the baseball annuals are coming out, when people are signing up for fantasy drafts, when Baseball Tonight is back on the air, etc. All of those are the start of ST.

Quote:

The correlation between release day sales and total sales is pretty direct. Getting that day right is critical.

Agree. Hence the thread.

I could be completely wrong and perhaps Markus and/or Brad have researched it exhaustively, or hired a bigtime marketing firm and the research pointed to opening day. That's not the impression I have, though. (and guys if you haven't hired anyone ... I'm an MBA but I work cheap!)

hluraven · 01-28-2015, 06:51 AM

Well, Football Manager is out 3 months into the season each year, I'm guessing they have a handle on how critical a release is to the start of the season.

Bluenoser · 01-28-2015, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frangipard

It's the same whether you have a big team or a small team: you'd have one year of accelerated timeline, and that year's game would probably have less in the way of new features, but after that it's back to normal. Lots and lots of annual software projects move up their release dates; I've worked on one It's not easy or fun, but it's not some insurmountable challenge to do in eleven months what normally takes twelve.

No it's not the same.

More workers = more work accomplished

Less workers = less work accomplished

There's only 24 hrs in a day, that doesn't change. Only the amount accomplished.

Anyway, it's a moot point. Markus has a gr8 plan with OOTP and has fine tuned it over the years. He knows better than any of us when the optimal release time is, and he's found it.

rpriske · 01-28-2015, 09:41 AM

There is a balance. Too early and it won't be as good as it can be or have the best rosters. Too late and that pre-season rush wears off.

A week before Opening Day seems about perfect to me.

frangipard · 01-28-2015, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

No it's not the same.

More workers = more work accomplished

Less workers = less work accomplished

There's only 24 hrs in a day, that doesn't change. Only the amount accomplished.

Right. Which is why "that year's game would probably have less in the way of new features."

Quote:

He knows better than any of us when the optimal release time is, and he's found it.

What's your evidence? How do you know?

In any event, this year's looks like it will be out a week earlier than last year's. Perhaps OOTP 17 is one more week earlier, and by OOTP 30 it's out in time for Christmas.

Bluenoser · 01-28-2015, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frangipard

Right. Which is why "that year's game would probably have less in the way of new features."

What's your evidence? How do you know?

In any event, this year's looks like it will be out a week earlier than last year's. Perhaps OOTP 17 is one more week earlier, and by OOTP 30 it's out in time for Christmas.

My evidence is that Markus has been doing this for 17 versions and I have every confidence he knows what he's doing based on track record.

Do you honestly believe he hasn't researched his marketing practices in all that time?

So where's your evidence that he's wrong?

zappa1 · 04-05-2015, 03:53 PM

If you want the most accurate opening day rosters, early would not be good. Why would I want to play the game for a couple months and then with an update to the opening day rosters, have to start a new game for those rosters to work? I'm fine with the release the way it is.

01-27-2015, 11:33 AM	#1
frangipard OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 763	OOTP should release earlier Obviously, this is not a suggestion for 2015, but for 2016 or afterwards. I don't see the point about waiting until opening day to release the game. People start thinking about baseball in earnest after football season is over; and in February APBA, Strat-o-Matic, What If Sports and all kinds of people are ready to go with their most current product; OOTP is telling them to wait two full months. By the time OOTP does release, it's the same time as MLB: The Show; they're probably less of a direct competitor for OOTP in terms of being very different kinds of games, but there are probably some people that might try OOTP if it was out a few weeks earlier. And certainly they are a competitor in terms of attention and media buzz. The only real advantage to it is for those of us who play with real MLB/MiLB rosters; we can start the season with mostly all the right players on all the right teams. But for people into historical or fictional leagues, which as far as I can tell is at least half the fanbase, this is meaningless; they're waiting for a feature that adds no value to them. That's a huge disadvantage compared to the other sim games. For those of us who do care about accurate rosters, well, we can suck it up and wait for the opening-day update; (as it is, as an accuracy geek, I personally don't start playing for real until there have been 2 or 3 roster updates/corrections, which means late April or even early May). Or for that matter, we can start with Spring Training rosters; I think Madden football launches this way -- the game drops with 70 man rosters and you begin by playing the 4 preseason games and making your cuts. It seemed odd last year that OOTP's big addition was Spring Training, but that you had to wait until the second in-game season to see it. And no, "But OOTP is better than all of those!" is not a helpful response; lots of better products go unsold because of poor marketing. And I recognize that there are some actively don't want to market the game because they imagine that more sales necessarily means the game will be dumbed-down; I just don't buy that. So long as Markus is involved, I think the game will stay true to his vision, and I want him to have the resources and the incentive to keep improving the game. That means growing the fanbase, and marketing is part of that. Last edited by frangipard; 01-27-2015 at 11:36 AM.

01-27-2015, 06:48 PM	#6
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Keep in mind that baseball junkies and gamers predisposed to look at sports management sims will buy based on criteria other than the release date. The vast untapped market for OOTP is much more likely to respond to the game if it comes out just around opening day. Creating a desire or interest for a niche product is very much dependent on timing and events. The general euphoria around opening day or late ST is a very effective hook. That segment are not scouring ST boxscores or the state of the orioles OF or if the Giants are due in a odd year. If the game launches too early they won't be paying attention and the message will be lost in other noise. The correlation between release day sales and total sales is pretty direct. Getting that day right is critical. Product growth depends on wider market appeal. A ST release would not attract the market needed for that growth IMO. Having said that I'm the equivalent of the Holiday Inn Express surgeon, what do I know. From what I see Brad and Markus seem to have a good plan in place. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

01-28-2015, 09:41 AM	#11
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 27,854	There is a balance. Too early and it won't be as good as it can be or have the best rosters. Too late and that pre-season rush wears off. A week before Opening Day seems about perfect to me. __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

01-27-2015, 04:20 PM	#2
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 22,296	OOTP16 is currently scheduled for a March release.

01-27-2015, 05:35 PM	#4
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,543	It's not that simple, especially with a small development team. The new game work usually starts in earnest in the fall. So everything has to be built. Then there has to be a testing period, bug finding, fixes. This takes time. It's not as simple as saying start earlier either, because attention has to be paid to the current version through the spring and summer. And when you start changing schedules it has a snowball effect on a lot of other aspects of your business too. "So much to do, so little time to do it in" as the old saying goes.

01-27-2015, 06:21 PM	#5
Ramzavail All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NY Posts: 618	I think a March/April release is perfect. I could understand if the team has consistently put out the product in June, but thats never been the case.

01-28-2015, 06:51 AM	#9
hluraven Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London, England Posts: 361	Well, Football Manager is out 3 months into the season each year, I'm guessing they have a handle on how critical a release is to the start of the season.

04-05-2015, 03:53 PM	#14
zappa1 Banned Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 2,271	If you want the most accurate opening day rosters, early would not be good. Why would I want to play the game for a couple months and then with an update to the opening day rosters, have to start a new game for those rosters to work? I'm fine with the release the way it is.