A Tip for Setting up Independent Leagues

jpeters1734 · 07-18-2014, 02:12 PM

Hey I ran across a good article that talked about where different leagues rank in talent levels.
What are non-MLB associated baseball league talent equivalents? at Nationals Arm Race
Foreign League US Pro Equivalent Estimate
Japan (***) Mid AAA
Dominican Winter League Mid AAA
Puerto Rican Winter League Mid-Low AAA
Venezuelan Winter League Low AAA/High AA
Mexican Pacific (Winter) Low AAA/High AA
Mexican Summer Low AAA/High AA
Arizona Fall League Low AAA/High AA
Atlantic League (Ind) High AA
Cuba High-A
Taiwan/China High-A
Korea High-A
American Association (Ind) High-A
Can-Am League (Ind) High-A
Frontier League (Ind) Low-A
Other Independents Rookie Ball
European (Dutch, Italian) Low Division 1
Other Foreign (Australia) Div II/Div III

Pay attention to the PCM's when creating the league. The Atlantic League has the talent level of a AA team and some of the best teams could beat a few AAA teams. The default PCM's in ootp 15 are below rookie ball.

If you are creating fictional players for the league and the PCM's are below rookie ball, You will have a few former big leaguers tear up the league for a couple years until it fills out with more talent.

If you have more than one indy league and you want one of them to have a better talent level than the other, be sure to also make the league reputation reflect.

Déjà Bru · 07-18-2014, 02:26 PM

Good article, but a bit subjective. But hey, that's the nature of the subject and this is as good a set of guidelines as any I have seen.

My concern is, say you use PCM's to maintain a foreign league at AAA or AA-level. Do any of those players eventually make it to MLB and excel? A handful is realistic but none at all is not. This is what always bothered me about trying to tinker with international league talent levels.

EDIT: Wow, he kind of dumped on Cuba, ranking it behind the Atlantic League (and my home-town Ducks)! I'm not so sure about that one.

SirMichaelJordan · 07-18-2014, 02:32 PM

I would say if you are filling the league up with fictional players soon after creating the league, a higher PCM than the default is a great idea but I would soon place it back at default if you have the league create it's own FA's since those guys would be college level players. Former affiliated club players and vets are what makes some of those league as good as AA ball.

Just putting that out there even thought I don't think anyone would have their league generate FA's.

jpeters1734 · 07-18-2014, 02:33 PM

I haven't messed with the international league pcms, but for the indy leagues it works. There are a few success stories in each indy league so the PCM's are appropriate.

Another thing I forgot to mention, I would set the player ages a little higher. Maybe in the 23-27 range. You don't want the league to create many 18 year olds with a lot of potential.

jpeters1734 · 07-18-2014, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I would say if you are filling the league up with fictional players soon after creating the league, a higher PCM than the default is a great idea but I would soon place it back at default if you have the league create it's own FA's since those guys would be college level players. Former affiliated club players and vets are what makes some of those league as good as AA ball.

Just putting that out there even thought I don't think anyone would have their league generate FA's.

I agree with you. If you have your indy league generate FA's then it does make sense to lower them.

I always turn off creation of FA for indy leagues

Lukas Berger · 07-18-2014, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Good article, but a bit subjective. But hey, that's the nature of the subject and this is as good a set of guidelines as any I have seen.

My concern is, say you use PCM's to maintain a foreign league at AAA or AA-level. Do any of those players eventually make it to MLB and excel? A handful is realistic but none at all is not. This is what always bothered me about trying to tinker with international league talent levels.

EDIT: Wow, he kind of dumped on Cuba, ranking it behind the Atlantic League (and my home-town Ducks)! I'm not so sure about that one.

I don't entirely agree with those rankings, in fact I discussed them somewhere around here them a while ago. They underrate Korea and overrate the Euro leagues a bit but still, overall they aren't far off. Pretty good in general though there are also some factual errors in the article. f.e. Korea doesn't feed into the *** at all really, there are maybe 2 Korean players in the *** and Taiwan barely feeds the *** any more than that, with maybe 10 players or so.

As for Cuba, it's definitely below the Atlantic League. Probably below the American Association as well.

Cuba's lost so much top talent in recent years and the young guys coming into the league haven't adequately replaced the lost talent. Cuba still has better top end guys than say the Atlantic League does, but it's bench guys and even some starter types are way below American pro caliber. They're more like American HS type players honestly. A lot of 16-17 year olds and a few 40 year olds as well.

Lukas Berger · 07-18-2014, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I always turn off creation of FA for indy leagues

Yeah, I think that's key. I was overjoyed when Markus gave us that feature for OOTP15, it was a long time coming!

Déjà Bru · 07-18-2014, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I don't entirely agree with those rankings, in fact I discussed them somewhere around here them a while ago. They underrate Korea and overrate the Euro leagues a bit but still, overall they aren't far off.

As for Cuba, it's definitely below the Atlantic League. Probably below the American Association as well.

Cuba's lost so much top talent in recent years and the young guys coming into the league haven't adequately replaced the lost talent. Cuba still has better top end guys than say the Atlantic League does, but it's bench guys and even some starter types are way below American pro caliber. They're more like American HS type players honestly. A lot of 16-17 year olds and a few 40 year olds as well.

I hear you, but check this out: List of baseball players who defected from Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia *

The Atlantic League, for the most part, is where wanna-bes play for their last chance and has-beens go rather than retire.

EDIT: * Granted, this part: "While some players who defect succeed in obtaining multi-million dollar contracts to play in MLB, many receive only minor league contracts and do not reach MLB."

Lukas Berger · 07-18-2014, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I hear you, but check this out: List of baseball players who defected from Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Atlantic League, for the most part, is where wanna-bes play for the last chance and has-beens go rather than retire.

Yeah, but those defections are the problem.

With those guys there, Cuba would definitely be AAA level, but you not only take all those guys away from the league within the last few years, but replace them with really young and really old players who wouldn't even have been good enough to play in Serie Nacional but for all the defections. That's really messed with Cuba's talent pool and it's been severely depleted at this point.

Those has-beens in the Atlantic League would all be starters and some would be stars in the Serie Nacional as currently constructed.

Plus as you point out, even some of the "stars" from Serie Nacional that have defected haven't even been able to get MLB deals and are currently playing in the indy leagues. And those are guys who were generally good in Cuba. The bad guys in Serie Nacional aren't even Pecos League caliber. So there's a huge disparity in talent levels in the Serie Nacional, bigger than any other league in the world.

jpeters1734 · 07-18-2014, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

The Atlantic League, for the most part, is where wanna-bes play for their last chance and has-beens go rather than retire.

You are right but the Talent level is that of a AA league. No one is saying the Atlantic league creates better prospects than cuba

Lukas Berger · 07-18-2014, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

You are right but the Talent level is that of a AA league. No one is saying the Atlantic league creates better prospects than cuba

Yeah, exactly.

Déjà Bru · 07-18-2014, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

You are right but the Talent level is that of a AA league. No one is saying the Atlantic league creates better prospects than cuba

Good point.

Lukas Berger · 07-18-2014, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I don't entirely agree with those rankings, in fact I discussed them somewhere around here them a while ago. They underrate Korea and overrate the Euro leagues a bit but still, overall they aren't far off. Pretty good in general though there are also some factual errors in the article. f.e. Korea doesn't feed into the *** at all really, there are maybe 2 Korean players in the *** and Taiwan barely feeds the *** any more than that, with maybe 10 players or so.

As for Cuba, it's definitely below the Atlantic League. Probably below the American Association as well.

Cuba's lost so much top talent in recent years and the young guys coming into the league haven't adequately replaced the lost talent. Cuba still has better top end guys than say the Atlantic League does, but it's bench guys and even some starter types are way below American pro caliber. They're more like American HS type players honestly. A lot of 16-17 year olds and a few 40 year olds as well.

Re-reading this, I sound too negative. This is a good article and good link, my comments are really only meant to clarify a couple things.

jpeters1734 · 07-18-2014, 04:31 PM

Another tip: Every Indy league has tryouts for players un-drafted and overlooked. The frontier league actually has a draft before their spring training of all the couple hundred that try out. Each team is required to pick at least 2 players. It's a good idea to add a 2 round draft in your indy leagues to simulate players not on the MLB radar, joining the indy league. Remember to set your rounds created to 2 and I would not recommend a slot bonus baseline. It doesn't make sense to.

Almost all these players will not be MLB prospects. If your PCM's are set up correctly, they will be prospects for the Indy league, not the MLB.

This is not really needed if you run full feeders and/or create way more rounds of players than what your draft needs.

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Rockfan616 · 09-27-2014, 02:40 AM

One question, when creating a winter league like say the Dominican, Puerto Rican, or Arizona Fall League do you draft players from major league farm systems or do all of the MLB teams send whatever prospects they want to the league automatically?? I'm in the playoffs right now in my MLB fantasy draft season and want to create a couple of winter leagues to play with during the offseason. Just curious is all, I'm hoping to play some games in the Cuban league as well during the MLB offseason. :-)

jpeters1734 · 09-27-2014, 07:59 AM

I have only tried the winter leagues once, and they don't work like they do url. It's a separate league with separate players. Though I'm sure some have figured a way to work with it

Rockfan616 · 10-03-2014, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I have only tried the winter leagues once, and they don't work like they do url. It's a separate league with separate players. Though I'm sure some have figured a way to work with it

OK now my question is in order to create a winter league from my already made up universe (fantasy draft league), how do I go about doing this?? I want to create probably the Dominican and/or the Puerto Rican winter leagues but not really sure how to do it other than creating a new game (which I would rather just have it run thru the offseason of my MLB universe already going on). Any idea how to do this?? Thanks in advance!!

07-18-2014, 02:12 PM	#1
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,247	A Tip for Setting up Independent Leagues Hey I ran across a good article that talked about where different leagues rank in talent levels. What are non-MLB associated baseball league talent equivalents? at Nationals Arm Race Foreign League US Pro Equivalent Estimate Japan (***) Mid AAA Dominican Winter League Mid AAA Puerto Rican Winter League Mid-Low AAA Venezuelan Winter League Low AAA/High AA Mexican Pacific (Winter) Low AAA/High AA Mexican Summer Low AAA/High AA Arizona Fall League Low AAA/High AA Atlantic League (Ind) High AA Cuba High-A Taiwan/China High-A Korea High-A American Association (Ind) High-A Can-Am League (Ind) High-A Frontier League (Ind) Low-A Other Independents Rookie Ball European (Dutch, Italian) Low Division 1 Other Foreign (Australia) Div II/Div III Pay attention to the PCM's when creating the league. The Atlantic League has the talent level of a AA team and some of the best teams could beat a few AAA teams. The default PCM's in ootp 15 are below rookie ball. If you are creating fictional players for the league and the PCM's are below rookie ball, You will have a few former big leaguers tear up the league for a couple years until it fills out with more talent. If you have more than one indy league and you want one of them to have a better talent level than the other, be sure to also make the league reputation reflect.

07-18-2014, 02:26 PM	#2
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,742	Good article, but a bit subjective. But hey, that's the nature of the subject and this is as good a set of guidelines as any I have seen. My concern is, say you use PCM's to maintain a foreign league at AAA or AA-level. Do any of those players eventually make it to MLB and excel? A handful is realistic but none at all is not. This is what always bothered me about trying to tinker with international league talent levels. EDIT: Wow, he kind of dumped on Cuba, ranking it behind the Atlantic League (and my home-town Ducks)! I'm not so sure about that one. __________________ - Bru Last edited by Déjà Bru; 07-18-2014 at 02:31 PM.

09-27-2014, 07:59 AM	#16
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,247	I have only tried the winter leagues once, and they don't work like they do url. It's a separate league with separate players. Though I'm sure some have figured a way to work with it __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

07-18-2014, 02:32 PM	#3
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	I would say if you are filling the league up with fictional players soon after creating the league, a higher PCM than the default is a great idea but I would soon place it back at default if you have the league create it's own FA's since those guys would be college level players. Former affiliated club players and vets are what makes some of those league as good as AA ball. Just putting that out there even thought I don't think anyone would have their league generate FA's.

07-18-2014, 02:33 PM	#4
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,247	I haven't messed with the international league pcms, but for the indy leagues it works. There are a few success stories in each indy league so the PCM's are appropriate. Another thing I forgot to mention, I would set the player ages a little higher. Maybe in the 23-27 range. You don't want the league to create many 18 year olds with a lot of potential.

07-18-2014, 04:31 PM	#14
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,247	Another tip: Every Indy league has tryouts for players un-drafted and overlooked. The frontier league actually has a draft before their spring training of all the couple hundred that try out. Each team is required to pick at least 2 players. It's a good idea to add a 2 round draft in your indy leagues to simulate players not on the MLB radar, joining the indy league. Remember to set your rounds created to 2 and I would not recommend a slot bonus baseline. It doesn't make sense to. Almost all these players will not be MLB prospects. If your PCM's are set up correctly, they will be prospects for the Indy league, not the MLB. This is not really needed if you run full feeders and/or create way more rounds of players than what your draft needs. Traverse City Beach Bums - Your Questions Answered - Beach Bum Player Information

09-27-2014, 02:40 AM	#15
Rockfan616 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 275	One question, when creating a winter league like say the Dominican, Puerto Rican, or Arizona Fall League do you draft players from major league farm systems or do all of the MLB teams send whatever prospects they want to the league automatically?? I'm in the playoffs right now in my MLB fantasy draft season and want to create a couple of winter leagues to play with during the offseason. Just curious is all, I'm hoping to play some games in the Cuban league as well during the MLB offseason. :-)