Warming up pitchers?

[Artoo_Detoo]

Is there a reason not to just warm up bullpen pitchers right from the first inning? Do they get tired from warming up too much in this game?

[Bluenoser]

Warming up a pitcher in OOTP is like r/l. Warming him up too long is just as bad as not warming him up enough.

Be advised, the AI in OOTP does not use the warmup rule, even if you have it enabled. Only applies to human managed teams.

Some like to leave it on as a house rule just to make it a little harder to beat the AI. A lot disable it simply because it isn't applied across the board.

I never enable it myself, but I don't manage my games very often either.

YMMV

[BusterKing]

[rant]

Maybe one day OOTP will have this important function working properly like the very old Tony La Russa had it working, you could see who the AI was warming up in that game. Surprisingly, we are at version 15 and still no signs of any work being done on this.

I love OOTP but this issue has always bothered me.

[/rant]

[BusterKing]

Oh, and FPS Baseball game also had the bullpen warmup working properly.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

[rant]

Maybe one day OOTP will have this important function working properly like the very old Tony La Russa had it working, you could see who the AI was warming up in that game. Surprisingly, we are at version 15 and still no signs of any work being done on this.

I love OOTP but this issue has always bothered me.

[/rant]

I truly hope so. Reliever use is a key part of game management and has been for a long time. It's a basic strategy used almost every single game. It needs to be fully functional in OOTP so the AI has to use it also.

[IanIachimoe]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

[rant]

Maybe one day OOTP will have this important function working properly like the very old Tony La Russa had it working, you could see who the AI was warming up in that game. Surprisingly, we are at version 15 and still no signs of any work being done on this.

I love OOTP but this issue has always bothered me.

[/rant]

this^ & same. I play out every game & that would be very useful.

I will start to warm up a RP when the rain begins to fall no matter what. nothing worse than having to come back from a delay with a cold pitcher when the CPU doesn't have to.

[eriqjaffe]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

Oh, and FPS Baseball game also had the bullpen warmup working properly.

SSI's "Computer Baseball" on my Commodore 64 had bullpen warmups working properly.

[The Wolf]

I would really enjoy getting messages that the opposing team has so-and-so up in the bullpen, or has sat so-and-so down in the bullpen. I'd like to be able to look at their bullpen activity and see exactly what they're doing. I'd like that screen to include what relief pictures are still available to my opponent, and I'd like to have a similar screen for my own team. I'd like a screen showing available pinch hitters. I'd like multiple lineups and depth charts that I could save by filename and call up and load at will.

These things have all been brought up before, and OOTP has chosen to never do them. My personal opinion is that these decision were bad ones.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I'd like that screen to include what relief pictures are still available to my opponent, and I'd like to have a similar screen for my own team. I'd like a screen showing available pinch hitters.

Actually those already exist, top right in the screenshot "TEAM INFO" box.

(Using old OOTP14 ss when I reported a glitch about something else):

[The Wolf]

I know about that. I want more information than that.

[jcp1417]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I know about that. I want more information than that.

Lol, Like? He just showed you exactly what you were asking for.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by jcp1417

Lol, Like? He just showed you exactly what you were asking for.

dang it wrong account

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by jcp1417

Lol, Like? He just showed you exactly what you were asking for.

He did not. I want more data. For pitchers, for example, I want to see who pitched how many innings on what days recently.

[gosensgo101]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

He did not. I want more data. For pitchers, for example, I want to see who pitched how many innings on what days recently.

I just use excel for this.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

He did not. I want more data. For pitchers, for example, I want to see who pitched how many innings on what days recently.

I agree - you should have a bullpen screen that shows who's in the pen, who's warming up, who pitched when and how many IP's they pitched, who's tired, who's not, etc.

You should be able to look at your pen and say to yourself, "Ok, I need a lefty, who's available?" A quick glance at this screen shows me, of my two Lefties, one pitched 2 days ago, and one yesterday. The guy who pitched two days ago threw 51 pitches, the guy yesterday only 7. I can see in my glance who's more tired and make a decision pretty easily without having to leave the screen.

The only time I should have to leave that screen is if I want to look at some in depth stats of a certain pitcher, then I can simply click on his name and his profile pops up where I can dig through his stats.

This is all important info when playing a game and making decisions on the field.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I agree - you should have a bullpen screen that shows who's in the pen, who's warming up, who pitched when and how many IP's they pitched, who's tired, who's not, etc.

You should be able to look at your pen and say to yourself, "Ok, I need a lefty, who's available?" A quick glance at this screen shows me, of my two Lefties, one pitched 2 days ago, and one yesterday. The guy who pitched two days ago threw 51 pitches, the guy yesterday only 7. I can see in my glance who's more tired and make a decision pretty easily without having to leave the screen.

The only time I should have to leave that screen is if I want to look at some in depth stats of a certain pitcher, then I can simply click on his name and his profile pops up where I can dig through his stats.

This is all important info when playing a game and making decisions on the field.

Exactly!

[Sweed]

I fully support this being added to OOTP when it can be done so the AI can handle it "properly ".

I quote properly because I am curious. Could those that posted FPS, La Russa, and SSI did do it properly as far back as the C64 define "properly"?

When we say these old games did it properly it almost sounds like we're saying it was "easy" back then so why can't OOTP do it now? Are you saying the "situational" usage of the bullpen from back then could be put into OOTP "as is" and would be acceptable? We're these games warming up the "right" guy(s) or were they just warming up "a" guy(s)?

Thanks.

[The Wolf]

This is more the absence of a negative, but I know several people who played a lot of Tony LaRussa baseball, and none of them ever had a bad thing to say about the bullpen management.

Take that for what it's worth, which may be nothing.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I fully support this being added to OOTP when it can be done so the AI can handle it "properly ".

I quote properly because I am curious. Could those that posted FPS, La Russa, and SSI did do it properly as far back as the C64 define "properly"?

When we say these old games did it properly it almost sounds like we're saying it was "easy" back then so why can't OOTP do it now? Are you saying the "situational" usage of the bullpen from back then could be put into OOTP "as is" and would be acceptable? We're these games warming up the "right" guy(s) or were they just warming up "a" guy(s)?

Thanks.

It wasn't exactly "proper" back then. Basically all they are saying is that they had a bullpen you could warm up but not warming up wouldn't really had any negative effect on the game. after 10-15 pitches your guy was ready anyway (I don't warm up releivers because it takes away from their total pitches before being fatigued). The strategy in those games was to bring in your reliever against some of the other teams lesser hitters so you didn't need to warm them up. The could "warm up" in game against those hitters before facing anyone good and you got extra pitches out of them. Starting pitchers would only throw about 70 pitches before having zero pitches left and getting shelled yet it would often take around 90 pitches before the AI would warm up someone. Then you had the thing where the AI would warm up a guy then sit him down and warm him up again and sit him down and warm him up and waste all his pitch count for him to come in and throw two or three pitches and then replace him again inevitably with someone who got zero warm up and you could shell him. Just because the game had bullpen warm ups doesn't at all mean it was "proper" or "realistic".

I know because I play Computer Baseball often even now.

As for the others they all used the same base as Computer Baseball and usually had the same issues with out the "we're ssi and can't fully program a game without leaving a few bugs in it" and better graphics

So yes those old games had the feature but it wasn't exactly right either. The worked great for the human player that could control it but the AI would do some silly things (which is probably what the AI was doing in OOTP tests). Plus remember that every AI team in those games had the same strategy for the bullpen (warm up after starter throws X or gives up X warm up to X etc) in OOTP their are as many strategies as teams which means they have to program for all of that. No two AI teams would be the same and that would be a whole lot of new code just for that. I'm a believer of if you can't make it right don't add it. I don't doubt that OOTP has the AI relievers crutched some by modifying them to over-perform a little bit.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Warming up a pitcher in OOTP is like r/l. Warming him up too long is just as bad as not warming him up enough.

Be advised, the AI in OOTP does not use the warmup rule, even if you have it enabled. Only applies to human managed teams.

Some like to leave it on as a house rule just to make it a little harder to beat the AI. A lot disable it simply because it isn't applied across the board.

I never enable it myself, but I don't manage my games very often either.

YMMV

I have not noticed any penalty to warming up a pitcher for too long. If I have a rain delay i might get a guy up right away but then he doesn't come in for 2+ more innings when my starter gets tired.