Chicago Cubs Unwatchable

[Mikex5]

"For more than 40 years, I have broadcast the joy and heartache, more of the latter than the former..." -Part of Jack Brickhouse's Hall of fame speech

The past 3 years have been horrible. I now know what Pirates fans experienced for some 20 years, watching a club you know has no chance of achieving any kind of success. The Cubs are now in year 3 of their rebuilding plan. Back in the days before free agency, new GM's would tout a 5 year plan. This Cubs team, the third year for Theo Epstein, is on pace to be the worst team by far as they are on pace for a 108 loss season.

For most of my life, even bad Cubs teams had at least some exciting players to watch, from Banks to Sosa, from Jenkins to Maddux. Dave Kingman in 1979... I have looked at these "can't miss" prospects and I can't say how many of these guys will actually be stars.
Baez, Almora and Soler are all free swingers who strike out once every 4 at bats while trying their best to never draw a walk. These guys just might make it.

What is most frustrating is that there is no pretense from management that they are trying to even improve this year. The Cubs did nothing to upgrade their offense this year, and it shows. Cubs fans are finally showing their frustration by not showing up to games. Against their cross-town rival White Sox, they drew right around 28000 fans per game. Usually, that was a hard ticket to get. My brother bought tickets for about $20 less than face value. Would it have been hard to get a good player to plug into one of the three outfield spots?

Done ranting for now. At least I still have the Blackhawks to cheer on. When does football training camp open?

[ukhotstove]

I know it's different for a pro athlete compared to an average fan but you'd think the Cubs would be an easy sell. Playing in Wrigley Field for the Chicago Cubs, to me the Red Sox would be another easy sell playing in Fenway, the Dodgers would be another but like I say I'm just a fan I think with my heart not my bank balance of trophy cabinet.

[Carlton]

Part of their allure is failure, is it not?

The Red Sox have become the Yankees 2.0 with their World Series titles

Besides with 2 wildcards now, it will only be a matter of time before they make the WS

[The Game]

As a Sox fan seeing the Cubs be very bad is great for me. Would be nice if just for once the Sox can sweep the Cubs in the season series, twice the Cubs have swept us (1997, 2013) Would be nice if my Sox could make the playoffs in back to back seasons, Cubs have done it numerous times. Will be interesting to see which team makes it back to the playoffs 1st and which team may be an actual contender.

One of the best baseball songs of all time. A Dying Cubs Fan Last Request by Steve Goodman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAC9NT1CR8

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Carlton

Besides with 2 wildcards now, it will only be a matter of time before they make the WS

Technically, you still have to finish at least third in the division and the Cubbies don't seem very close.

Says a fan of a team, which has not turned a winning record in seven years and does not seem to be in a hurry to do so. (read: Mets)

[Airdrop01]

Man, be a Cubs fan or a Royals fan for four decades or more and then tell me how alluring it is. I totally get the OP's point.

[John Madden]

Even the Royals at least have 1985 in the last 40 years!

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Mikex5

Against their cross-town rival White Sox, they drew right around 28000 fans per game.

I can sympathize with the sentiment expressed in your full post. However, I feel compelled to correct some factual misstatements from the above portion of it.

The two games this season the Cubs hosted the White Sox had a paid attendance of 33,146 and 34,305. That's an average of 33,726. That compares to an average of 30,903 for the 16 non-White Sox home games played thus far by the Cubs in 2014.

In the 2013 season, the Cubs averaged 32,651 for the 79 home games excluding the White Sox. For the two games they hosted against their crosstown rivals, the Cubs averaged 31,624.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by Mikex5

"For more than 40 years, I have broadcast the joy and heartache, more of the latter than the former..." -Part of Jack Brickhouse's Hall of fame speech

The past 3 years have been horrible. I now know what Pirates fans experienced for some 20 years, watching a club you know has no chance of achieving any kind of success. The Cubs are now in year 3 of their rebuilding plan. Back in the days before free agency, new GM's would tout a 5 year plan. This Cubs team, the third year for Theo Epstein, is on pace to be the worst team by far as they are on pace for a 108 loss season.

For most of my life, even bad Cubs teams had at least some exciting players to watch, from Banks to Sosa, from Jenkins to Maddux. Dave Kingman in 1979... I have looked at these "can't miss" prospects and I can't say how many of these guys will actually be stars.
Baez, Almora and Soler are all free swingers who strike out once every 4 at bats while trying their best to never draw a walk. These guys just might make it.

What is most frustrating is that there is no pretense from management that they are trying to even improve this year. The Cubs did nothing to upgrade their offense this year, and it shows. Cubs fans are finally showing their frustration by not showing up to games. Against their cross-town rival White Sox, they drew right around 28000 fans per game. Usually, that was a hard ticket to get. My brother bought tickets for about $20 less than face value. Would it have been hard to get a good player to plug into one of the three outfield spots?

Done ranting for now. At least I still have the Blackhawks to cheer on. When does football training camp open?

I understand the frustration as a fellow cubs fan. However, I see reason to be hopeful. While the major league team has struggled Theo has completely revamped the farm system. The cubs have 5 players in the TOP50 prospects ranked by BA. I can't tolerate the team being this bad forever, but as long as I see progress with team I'm willing to on the short term.

Theo inherited a team with bloated contracts and no prospects. It was destroyed in 3 years and won't be repaired in three either. I see little reason to overspend on a veteran for a team that will be terrible either way.

[Mikex5]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

Theo inherited a team with bloated contracts and no prospects. It was destroyed in 3 years and won't be repaired in three either. I see little reason to overspend on a veteran for a team that will be terrible either way.

I also don't see a reason to support or watch this current team either.

[Déjà Bru]

Earlier in the season, I was looking around for a couple of other teams to follow on MLB.tv and I looked at the Cubs. Honestly, I remember looking at their roster saying to myself, "Are you kidding me?"

LGO corrected your attendance stats but to the extent that these are true:

• "Cubs fans are finally showing their frustration by not showing up to games."

• "My brother bought tickets for about $20 less than face value."

. . . your pain may end sooner than later. Frankly, and I invite contradiction on this, but Cubs fans loyalty has been counter-productive to the success of the team in one aspect: If the fans still come out to see a bad team year after year, why bother spending more money for good players?

[Skipaway]

Cubs attendance record is still 9th in the league, and better than the 90s or before that.

The Cubs is horrible with little support for a long time. It's just that the 00s happened to be one of the most successful decades the Cubs had, and the team is coming down from that. The only better decade might be the 1930s.

But indeed 2012-2014 could easily ended up as the worst three year stretch in the team history. That surely hurts.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

I understand the frustration as a fellow cubs fan. However, I see reason to be hopeful. While the major league team has struggled Theo has completely revamped the farm system. The cubs have 5 players in the TOP50 prospects ranked by BA. I can't tolerate the team being this bad forever, but as long as I see progress with team I'm willing to on the short term.

Theo inherited a team with bloated contracts and no prospects. It was destroyed in 3 years and won't be repaired in three either. I see little reason to overspend on a veteran for a team that will be terrible either way.

The team definitely can recover faster if the owner is willing to spend. No need to spend like the Dodgers, but the team could have chosen to have more reasonably-priced veterans to play 0.450 ball instead of 0.380 ball during the rebuilding years.

The team payroll is at its lowest point since 2002, and during the same time MLB revenue has been making great leaps. The payroll is lower than Oakland right now even.

Let's say the team signed Cano or whatever. Would Cano still be productive when the team next contents? Maybe not. However, the team can definitely afford to do that, and it'd have maintained good will from fans better over the rebuilding years.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by Mikex5

I also don't see a reason to support or watch this current team either.

Then don't watch. That's certainly the best way to show your displeasure.

Originally Posted by Skipaway

The team definitely can recover faster if the owner is willing to spend. No need to spend like the Dodgers, but the team could have chosen to have more reasonably-priced veterans to play 0.450 ball instead of 0.380 ball during the rebuilding years.

Sure, but what's the point. Why pay veterans to play .450 ball when it's still not going to improve the team's standing much. I'd rather watch the kids play anyway. Maybe it was all those years of watching the team plug in has-been and never will be veterans as a guise to actually trying to win games. I'm not really interested in watching that again either. I don't mind the team doing what it is doing. Theo and company have been very transparent about what they are trying to accomplish and how they are going about it. We have seen the farm team go from one of the worst in the league to top 5 in the league in the time Theo's been here. That's how you create a consistent winner. Adding veterans is for supplementing your core talent and/or finding the missing piece. If your core talent is as bad as the cubs, you're not really helping your team by overpaying for veterans in money or years.

As far as signing Cano, I think we learned our lesson with the Soriano deal. Why would you guarantee a 10 year, 240mil contract to a player on the wrong side of 30. Cano is 31, he'll likely be 33-35 before the cubs have any chance of contending. That would be a TERRIBLE deal. And his contract would prevent the team from signing anyone who could help the team at that point.

I'm sure all these people who are jumping ship now will be in the stands once the winning starts. The Cubs know this too.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

Sure, but what's the point. Why pay veterans to play .450 ball when it's still not going to improve the team's standing much. I'd rather watch the kids play anyway. Maybe it was all those years of watching the team plug in has-been and never will be veterans as a guise to actually trying to win games. I'm not really interested in watching that again either. I don't mind the team doing what it is doing. Theo and company have been very transparent about what they are trying to accomplish and how they are going about it. We have seen the farm team go from one of the worst in the league to top 5 in the league in the time Theo's been here. That's how you create a consistent winner. Adding veterans is for supplementing your core talent and/or finding the missing piece. If your core talent is as bad as the cubs, you're not really helping your team by overpaying for veterans in money or years.

As far as signing Cano, I think we learned our lesson with the Soriano deal. Why would you guarantee a 10 year, 240mil contract to a player on the wrong side of 30. Cano is 31, he'll likely be 33-35 before the cubs have any chance of contending. That would be a TERRIBLE deal. And his contract would prevent the team from signing anyone who could help the team at that point.

I'm sure all these people who are jumping ship now will be in the stands once the winning starts. The Cubs know this too.

The part you are missing is that there is no hurting the team by adding a veteran or two, even ones with extraordinary contracts like Cano. Cano type of contract is only hurting the team if the team signed several players like that, and there aren't even that many available over the years.

And a point of a player like Cano is a reference point for more fans to maintain a certain level of interest. If you don't have players like that to gap the down years, fan interest recovers slower. In extreme cases like the Marlins, fans never regained interest because the rises and falls were too fast. Attendance records reflect winning, but usually the running average of the past few years, not the current season. You can see surprise playoff teams still have low attendance, and recently crashed teams still have good attendance.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

Sure, but what's the point. Why pay veterans to play .450 ball when it's still not going to improve the team's standing much. I'd rather watch the kids play anyway. Maybe it was all those years of watching the team plug in has-been and never will be veterans as a guise to actually trying to win games. I'm not really interested in watching that again either. I don't mind the team doing what it is doing. Theo and company have been very transparent about what they are trying to accomplish and how they are going about it. We have seen the farm team go from one of the worst in the league to top 5 in the league in the time Theo's been here. That's how you create a consistent winner. Adding veterans is for supplementing your core talent and/or finding the missing piece. If your core talent is as bad as the cubs, you're not really helping your team by overpaying for veterans in money or years.

These are good points but only up to a point (what?). What I mean is:

• If an organization is not going to spend big money on free agents, then it had better have a good farm system. If what you said about the Cubs' system is true, then perhaps Cubs fans can see some light at the end of the tunnel and they should support the team in the meantime. If not, watch out.
• However, the best teams are a blend of young talent and veterans. Maybe not mega-buck Cano's but guys like David Cone, David Wells, Joe Girardi, Paul O'Neill, and Tino Martinez and how they were for young players like Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada, Derek Jeter, and Bernie Williams on the 1998 Yankees - the greatest professional baseball team that I have ever seen.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

These are good points but only up to a point (what?). What I mean is:

• If an organization is not going to spend big money on free agents, then it had better have a good farm system. If what you said about the Cubs' system is true, then perhaps Cubs fans can see some light at the end of the tunnel and they should support the team in the meantime. If not, watch out.
• However, the best teams are a blend of young talent and veterans. Maybe not mega-buck Cano's but guys like David Cone, David Wells, Joe Girardi, Paul O'Neill, and Tino Martinez and how they were for young players like Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada, Derek Jeter, and Bernie Williams on the 1998 Yankees - the greatest professional baseball team that I have ever seen.

I agree on all counts. The Cubs have the fifth best farm system according to Baseball America and 5 prospects ranked in the top 50. There is a lot of light at the end of the tunnel. The problem is most of the talent is still a few years away. That is why I struggle to see the reason to spend on free agents. If the ideal player was available on the right side of 30 and willing to lose for a couple season that would be one thing. Remember the Cubs made a pretty big push for Tanaka. However throwing money at a guy like Cano would be foolish. The Cubs are not an attractive team to free agents right now. So in order to land somebody you have to overpay in years or money. I totally disagree with skip on that point. Even one player with a Cano contract like that can be damaging to a club. I also don't see the value in replacement level veterans who are likely to play only slightly better than the kids coming up. I'd rather let the kids play and see what you have.

The comparison to the Marlins is off base. The Marlins have never had the fan numbers or loyalty the Cubs have. Look at the late 90s Cubs. If you put a good product out there the fans will come. The Marlins fans don't go to games and never have. Cubs fans might be tuning out now (and I do not blame them one bit), but they'll burst out of hibernation the minute a division/wild card contender is born.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

I agree on all counts. The Cubs have the fifth best farm system according to Baseball America and 5 prospects ranked in the top 50. There is a lot of light at the end of the tunnel. The problem is most of the talent is still a few years away . . . Cubs fans might be tuning out now (and I do not blame them one bit), but they'll burst out of hibernation the minute a division/wild card contender is born.

Then I might just play contrarian and, contrary to what I said in post #11, I might just start following the Cubs now!

By the way, this Yankees fan is not missing Cano all that much. Oh, he's a great player but he lost my interest when he grabbed for the dollars rather than taking the decent offer that the Yankees made (people tend to overlook that). Also, his lack of hustle and his "didn't get respect" comments did not endear him to this fan base. He expected an ovation when he appeared as a Mariner in Yankee Stadium and got booed instead!

One more thing - take a look at the compared stats of Solarte, the minor-league journeyman who filled in for Cano at 2B until Roberts came off the DL, and Cano. It's early yet but, hmmm. To your point.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

I agree on all counts. The Cubs have the fifth best farm system according to Baseball America and 5 prospects ranked in the top 50. There is a lot of light at the end of the tunnel. The problem is most of the talent is still a few years away. That is why I struggle to see the reason to spend on free agents. If the ideal player was available on the right side of 30 and willing to lose for a couple season that would be one thing. Remember the Cubs made a pretty big push for Tanaka. However throwing money at a guy like Cano would be foolish. The Cubs are not an attractive team to free agents right now. So in order to land somebody you have to overpay in years or money. I totally disagree with skip on that point. Even one player with a Cano contract like that can be damaging to a club. I also don't see the value in replacement level veterans who are likely to play only slightly better than the kids coming up. I'd rather let the kids play and see what you have.

The comparison to the Marlins is off base. The Marlins have never had the fan numbers or loyalty the Cubs have. Look at the late 90s Cubs. If you put a good product out there the fans will come. The Marlins fans don't go to games and never have. Cubs fans might be tuning out now (and I do not blame them one bit), but they'll burst out of hibernation the minute a division/wild card contender is born.

You haven't said why overpaying a free agent or two would damage the club yet.

And exactly because fan interest is related to on the field performance as you said, I don't know why a rich team must play 0.380 ball instead of 0.450 ball during the rebuilding years. This team might not be able to spend like the Yankees and never really have huge down years, but there is no reason why the team can't spend a bit not to have three 0.400 years. The team can afford that, and there is no way that have to be damaging.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

You haven't said why overpaying a free agent or two would damage the club yet.

And exactly because fan interest is related to on the field performance as you said, I don't know why a rich team must play 0.380 ball instead of 0.450 ball during the rebuilding years. This team might not be able to spend like the Yankees and never really have huge down years, but there is no reason why the team can't spend a bit not to have three 0.400 years. The team can afford that, and there is no way that have to be damaging.

There is more to the budget than just payroll. Yes, the Cubs payroll is low. However, there is a lot of money being allocated to other things. They built a new spring training facility, a new baseball academy in the Dominican Republic, boosted their spending on international free agents and scouting. They are also spending money to upgrade and renovate Wrigley Field which is badly needed. Granted some of those renovations are to increase sponsorship and other money making opportunities (which will help with future payroll), but a lot of it is to improve player amenities which are well below par. This all points to creating long term future success. If you have ever seen the Cubs clubhouse or training room you'd definitely understand why this is needed. Wrigley Field is a wonderful place, but it is also rundown and archaic as a modern baseball facility.

So to answer your original query. Overpaying and for free agents takes money away from these other endeavors. A losing season is a losing season so I see no point and taking those resources away. Again, if the right free agent were available on the right side of 30 I would support the expense (like the cubs going after Tanaka). That's a horse of a different colour entirely.