Handling Historical Player-Managers

hefalumps · 01-17-2014, 03:26 PM

OK - let me start by saying I don't have a good suggestion for how OOTP could handle this better, but it's rather offputting when you stumble upon it.

When starting a historical league, occasionally the team's manager is also a player on the team. In the example I just stumbled upon, it was Lou Boudreau who managed and played on the Cleveland Indians in 1950. When OOTP creates a 1950 historical league, it creates a "Lou Boudreau" player and a "Lou Boudreau" coach. They share the same pic and bio info, but different entities. This makes sense and there's probably no better way to handle this.

However, the problem presents itself when either the coach or player goes elsewhere. For example, I'd known that Boudreau had been traded to the Phillies in 1955. But I didn't realize he was also still coaching the Indians until I read a story about Cleveland winning ten in a row and his name was mentioned in there as well.

Like I said - I'm not sure what can be done differently here. But obviously it makes the universe look a little "off" when Cleveland's manager is playing for Philadelphia.

Anyone have any thoughts on how this could be addressed? My only real idea is if OOTP could provide a "Find Duplicates" function that would look for players and personnel with the same name. Then it would be up to the OOTP user to decide if he wanted to rename the coach immediately, or if he really wanted to, he could shortlist the player and force the coach to quit if the player changed teams.

Could a "Find Duplicates" type function already be done with the existing OOTP Database tools in game? I checked and I guess it might be possible to export the database to MySQL and write some kind of SQL query to get that info, but it'd be nice if it were more accessible.

A "Find Duplicates" function would also be useful when the game accidentally imports the same retired player as a coach multiple times. Not sure if this has been fixed in more recent versions, but I definitely remember in past versions having multiple Willie Mays coaches with different coach IDs but the same bio and pic, working different jobs for different teams. Awkward.

Anyone else got any ideas? I know it's cosmetic in the grand scheme of things, but this is the kind of little thing that takes away from the realism.

Thanks!

David Watts · 01-17-2014, 03:31 PM

Can I ask a question and I hope it doesn't appear to you that I'm trying to hijack your thread, do the historical managers ever actually get fired, retire, quit etc?

rpriske · 01-17-2014, 03:45 PM

Yeah, I just had a weird one when I hired Joe Tinker to manage my A team... just based on his rating as a manager.

Problem is, it is the end of the 1901 season.

Tinker's rookie year AS A PLAYER was 1902.

So, am I going to have Tinker managing my A team while he plays in the majors for a different team?

fuzzy_patters · 01-17-2014, 04:13 PM

Wouldn't it also be possible that the player Lou Boudreau could eventually become a manager in your league? That would be a mess.

hefalumps · 01-17-2014, 04:33 PM

David - assuming you're doing a historical "alternate universe" type league where you let OOTP take over and not follow historical transactions, then yes - the Boudreau manager will eventually get fired or sign elsewhere. Or retire.

rpriske - That IS weird. Tinker didn't start managing until 1913 - so not sure why he's in your game as a coach in 1901. If you check his bio info on his profile, is he the same player? Not sure how that might have happened. And yes, when 1902 rolls around you'll likely have a Tinker player who is a clone of the Tinker coach. Fun!

fuzzy - Yes, when player Boudreau retires it's very possible he will later come back as a second Boudreau coach, which would be odd. As I mentioned in my OP, I know OOTP used to have problems with importing retired players as coaches multiple times in different years (as if it didn't remember it had already imported that player once before), so it would be similar to that phenomenon.

So yeah - lots of fun stuff here.

01-17-2014, 03:26 PM	#1
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,392	Handling Historical Player-Managers OK - let me start by saying I don't have a good suggestion for how OOTP could handle this better, but it's rather offputting when you stumble upon it. When starting a historical league, occasionally the team's manager is also a player on the team. In the example I just stumbled upon, it was Lou Boudreau who managed and played on the Cleveland Indians in 1950. When OOTP creates a 1950 historical league, it creates a "Lou Boudreau" player and a "Lou Boudreau" coach. They share the same pic and bio info, but different entities. This makes sense and there's probably no better way to handle this. However, the problem presents itself when either the coach or player goes elsewhere. For example, I'd known that Boudreau had been traded to the Phillies in 1955. But I didn't realize he was also still coaching the Indians until I read a story about Cleveland winning ten in a row and his name was mentioned in there as well. Like I said - I'm not sure what can be done differently here. But obviously it makes the universe look a little "off" when Cleveland's manager is playing for Philadelphia. Anyone have any thoughts on how this could be addressed? My only real idea is if OOTP could provide a "Find Duplicates" function that would look for players and personnel with the same name. Then it would be up to the OOTP user to decide if he wanted to rename the coach immediately, or if he really wanted to, he could shortlist the player and force the coach to quit if the player changed teams. Could a "Find Duplicates" type function already be done with the existing OOTP Database tools in game? I checked and I guess it might be possible to export the database to MySQL and write some kind of SQL query to get that info, but it'd be nice if it were more accessible. A "Find Duplicates" function would also be useful when the game accidentally imports the same retired player as a coach multiple times. Not sure if this has been fixed in more recent versions, but I definitely remember in past versions having multiple Willie Mays coaches with different coach IDs but the same bio and pic, working different jobs for different teams. Awkward. Anyone else got any ideas? I know it's cosmetic in the grand scheme of things, but this is the kind of little thing that takes away from the realism. Thanks!

01-17-2014, 03:45 PM	#3
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 27,218	Yeah, I just had a weird one when I hired Joe Tinker to manage my A team... just based on his rating as a manager. Problem is, it is the end of the 1901 season. Tinker's rookie year AS A PLAYER was 1902. So, am I going to have Tinker managing my A team while he plays in the majors for a different team? __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

01-17-2014, 03:31 PM	#2
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,127 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Can I ask a question and I hope it doesn't appear to you that I'm trying to hijack your thread, do the historical managers ever actually get fired, retire, quit etc?

01-17-2014, 04:13 PM	#4
fuzzy_patters All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,806	Wouldn't it also be possible that the player Lou Boudreau could eventually become a manager in your league? That would be a mess.

01-17-2014, 04:33 PM	#5
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,392	David - assuming you're doing a historical "alternate universe" type league where you let OOTP take over and not follow historical transactions, then yes - the Boudreau manager will eventually get fired or sign elsewhere. Or retire. rpriske - That IS weird. Tinker didn't start managing until 1913 - so not sure why he's in your game as a coach in 1901. If you check his bio info on his profile, is he the same player? Not sure how that might have happened. And yes, when 1902 rolls around you'll likely have a Tinker player who is a clone of the Tinker coach. Fun! fuzzy - Yes, when player Boudreau retires it's very possible he will later come back as a second Boudreau coach, which would be odd. As I mentioned in my OP, I know OOTP used to have problems with importing retired players as coaches multiple times in different years (as if it didn't remember it had already imported that player once before), so it would be similar to that phenomenon. So yeah - lots of fun stuff here.